Yet another alarm thread, sorry...

[jerrytlr]

hi I've read loads of the alarm threads on here and tried many of the suggestions, but haven't found anything that solves my problem... so apologies for starting yet another thread on this topic.

I've had the car for a few months now (1995 2.5DT) and alarm and immobiliser have worked fine up until now.

Today I go to unlock the car and the fob won't work. The lights on the fob shine nice and bright. Use the key in the drivers lock, unlocks all the doors fine, but can't start the engine and have the 'engine disabled... press button on remote' message. Second fob does exactly the same thing.

Have tried the EKA procedure several times but to no avail. I do not have the lockout message.

I have also tried the 'hold the keyfob button down while turning the key in the lock' process, no difference.

Car is currently unusable.

In order to understand what is going on, please could somebody let me know the following:

- the central locking works fine with the key in the driver's lock. The indicator lights and the red LED on the top of the dash all seem to respond to the turn of the key. Does this mean that the microswitch in the lock is OK, or is there another microswitch that the EKA unlock process uses?

- a question for those who have successfully used the EKA process - is there any kind of acknowledgement after each of the key turns, eg a light on the dash? Is there any indication after putting in the four lock turns at the start that the system is ready to receive the code?

Any other ideas re what I should check?

Thanks in advance

Cheers

Jerry

 

[j the range]

you should not need the 4 turns to start the eka, i think it was started on the later r/r. And you should get indercatior flash after each turn, has your rf box got the blue wire on or off?

 

[jerrytlr]

RF box has the wire on as far as I know, I did try using the fob with it right next to the antenna but it made no difference.

Thanks for the info about the 4 turns, I only have the copy of the owners manual supplied with RAVE which I think is for 1999 MY - what is the procedure for the earlier cars??

Cheers,

Jerry

 

[zzr1200]

Hi Jerry, I have a 1995 2.5DT, I've scanned the EKA input instructions from my Owners Handbook in PDF format, but the file is to large to upload it here. I've found your email addy (googlemail) and sent the instructions to it.

I was staying near Gourdon (Mandou) in July/August anywhere near your location???

 

[rasheed]

you should not need the 4 turns to start the eka, i think it was started on the later r/r.

think you might have that backwards?

 

[Datatek]

hi I've read loads of the alarm threads on here and tried many of the suggestions, but haven't found anything that solves my problem... so apologies for starting yet another thread on this topic.

I've had the car for a few months now (1995 2.5DT) and alarm and immobiliser have worked fine up until now.

Today I go to unlock the car and the fob won't work. The lights on the fob shine nice and bright. Use the key in the drivers lock, unlocks all the doors fine, but can't start the engine and have the 'engine disabled... press button on remote' message. Second fob does exactly the same thing.

Have tried the EKA procedure several times but to no avail. I do not have the lockout message.

I have also tried the 'hold the keyfob button down while turning the key in the lock' process, no difference.

Car is currently unusable.

In order to understand what is going on, please could somebody let me know the following:

- the central locking works fine with the key in the driver's lock. The indicator lights and the red LED on the top of the dash all seem to respond to the turn of the key. Does this mean that the microswitch in the lock is OK, or is there another microswitch that the EKA unlock process uses?

- a question for those who have successfully used the EKA process - is there any kind of acknowledgement after each of the key turns, eg a light on the dash? Is there any indication after putting in the four lock turns at the start that the system is ready to receive the code?

Any other ideas re what I should check?

Thanks in advance

Cheers

Jerry

Sounds like the FOBS have lost sync. Try putting the key in the ignition and pressing the lock then unlock buttons with the key in position 1 or 2 or the position when the press fob button message appears.
As to why the fobs have lost synch, probably an early RF receiver picking up spurious signals which has moved the rolling code on beyond the limit taking the FOBS out of sync. To prevent a recurrance, update to a new receiver, as a temporary fix remove the blue wire from the receiver. It's also possible that the RF receiver has an internal failure that has caused the problem, if so it may eventually burn out your door locks.

 

[jerrytlr]

Hi Jerry, I have a 1995 2.5DT, I've scanned the EKA input instructions from my Owners Handbook in PDF format, but the file is to large to upload it here. I've found your email addy (googlemail) and sent the instructions to it.

I was staying near Gourdon (Mandou) in July/August anywhere near your location???

Thanks ZZR, really kind of you to do this.

I live right at the top of the Dordogne, about 90mins north of Gourdon.

Just tried following your instructions; initially still wouldn't work. I then tried entering the code more quickly and this time I got three beeps when I had finished entering it, which I didn't get before. So I think I have been entering the code too slowly. However, engine still didn't start. Tried one more time and this time the engine did start! So at least it is running again, even though I am not exactly filled with confidence that it won't leave me stranded somewhere...

The remote still didn't work at this point; so I tried holding the lock button while using the key to lock the car, after which point the remote started working too.....

So at least all is working again, but for how long I am not too sure...

Datatek thanks for the tip about the RF receiver, I will see if I can get hold of a more recent one.

Cheers,

Jerry

 

[jerrytlr]

Hi sorry to resurrect this but thought it better than starting yet another new thread...

I now seem to have two inoperative keyfobs, and have to enter the EKA code every time I want to start the car. At least the EKA process does work, usually on the second attempt.

The light on both fobs shines nice and bright.

Before when I had problems, the keyfobs seemed to start working again as soon as I had got the EKA procedure to work. Now, they don't.

Any thoughts? Should I get a new RF receiver and hope that is the problem, or is there anything else I should try or check first??


TIA

Cheers

Jerry

 

[rasheed]

hi, ok lets try to take this step by step:

1. if the doors don't open even though there's a light on the fobs go to a local electronics repair place. They usually have a device for testing things like TV remotes and will tell you if your keys are at least transmitting a signal. If that works then try removing the blue antenna cable from the receiver, this will reduce its sensitivity to ambient signal "noise" and allow it to read the fobs better but only from close range. You mention that you already tried close range but leaving the wire on. That won't work.

2. I've heard of two ways to resynch the fobs. There's Datatek's way in the car's ignition and the one I use which is the driver's door. Insert key, turn to lock while pressing lock on fob, turn to unlock while pressing unlock on fob. Neither will work if there is too much ambient signal noise.

3. If your doors open but engine doesn't start have you noticed if the "check engine" light comes on first when you turn the key in the ignition? If it does not, the immobiliser is still armed at some level. It won't always show a message in the display. Since you are able to disarm it using the EKA (for now..) what it means is that the BECM and ECU have lost synch. Using a diagnostics tool can help you to resynch. The problem is that its a rolling code that is written each time the car is turned off and stored in the various places in the BECM and in the ECU. It is written on to EPROM chips which in our P38s are getting pretty old and so may be losing re-write integrity. Changing the chips is probably not an option but you still have two choices; Either carry a diagnostic tool and resynch the two CPUs every time they fail to connect or else you can use the tool to permanently disable the immobiliser. You'll need full scale diagnostics though not just a code-reader. If you choose this option do check first that it won't void your insurance. It didn't affect mine so that's what I have done. You'll probably find the thread in here somwhere if you do a search. I only mention is as you say you are way up in Dordogne and maybe your broker will let you get away with it.

4. A related problem is the RF buffer which specifically stores the lock unlock codes from the fobs. This is also a rolling buffer but I have heard that if it doesn't clear properly it will gradually fill with fragementary bits of junk code and stop working. Must have been written be Microsoft! Anyway, diagnostics can be used to clear the buffer which then needs to be done periodically as to my knowledge there is no permanent solution to this. One thing Datatek said is new to me, that the buffer stores both spurious signals as well as genuine ones, that it doesn't overflow but just moves the code on. I'thought it would wake up but then just see them as incoherent noise and go back to sleep again after a delay. If Data is right then changing the receiver will reduce the number of "false" signals being stored in the buffer and prevent it rolling on but if its again an EPROM issue a new receiver will help but not totally cure the problem.

Actually thinking about it, if the receiver keeps waking up the BECM and regardless of whether its rolling the code on or writing junk to the buffer you should be experiencing some battery drain. Remove the EAS delay control relay to isolate the self-levelling, put a voltmeter across the battery, set it to record peak values and if the leads are long enough put it on the floor under the car leaving it connected but with all the doors and bonnets etc closed. Wait a few minutes (about 3 for the BECM to go to sleep) reset the reading and then walk away. Next day see what the peak reading was. It will not be 0 because the BECM still has to monitor the volumetric alarm and watch for signals from the RF but I think it shouldn't draw more than about 0.3A (somebody will come along with the right numbers). If its higher than that means your BECM woke up in the night due to a prod from the RF receiver.

Bonne chance!

 

[JohnP38]

hi, ok lets try to take this step by step:

1. if the doors don't open even though there's a light on the fobs go to a local electronics repair place. They usually have a device for testing things like TV remotes and will tell you if your keys are at least transmitting a signal. If that works then try removing the blue antenna cable from the receiver, this will reduce its sensitivity to ambient signal "noise" and allow it to read the fobs better but only from close range. You mention that you already tried close range but leaving the wire on. That won't work.

2. I've heard of two ways to resynch the fobs. There's Datatek's way in the car's ignition and the one I use which is the driver's door. Insert key, turn to lock while pressing lock on fob, turn to unlock while pressing unlock on fob. Neither will work if there is too much ambient signal noise.

3. If your doors open but engine doesn't start have you noticed if the "check engine" light comes on first when you turn the key in the ignition? If it does not, the immobiliser is still armed at some level. It won't always show a message in the display. Since you are able to disarm it using the EKA (for now..) what it means is that the BECM and ECU have lost synch. Using a diagnostics tool can help you to resynch. The problem is that its a rolling code that is written each time the car is turned off and stored in the various places in the BECM and in the ECU. It is written on to EPROM chips which in our P38s are getting pretty old and so may be losing re-write integrity. Changing the chips is probably not an option but you still have two choices; Either carry a diagnostic tool and resynch the two CPUs every time they fail to connect or else you can use the tool to permanently disable the immobiliser. You'll need full scale diagnostics though not just a code-reader. If you choose this option do check first that it won't void your insurance. It didn't affect mine so that's what I have done. You'll probably find the thread in here somwhere if you do a search. I only mention is as you say you are way up in Dordogne and maybe your broker will let you get away with it.

4. A related problem is the RF buffer which specifically stores the lock unlock codes from the fobs. This is also a rolling buffer but I have heard that if it doesn't clear properly it will gradually fill with fragementary bits of junk code and stop working. Must have been written be Microsoft! Anyway, diagnostics can be used to clear the buffer which then needs to be done periodically as to my knowledge there is no permanent solution to this. One thing Datatek said is new to me, that the buffer stores both spurious signals as well as genuine ones, that it doesn't overflow but just moves the code on. I'thought it would wake up but then just see them as incoherent noise and go back to sleep again after a delay. If Data is right then changing the receiver will reduce the number of "false" signals being stored in the buffer and prevent it rolling on but if its again an EPROM issue a new receiver will help but not totally cure the problem.

Actually thinking about it, if the receiver keeps waking up the BECM and regardless of whether its rolling the code on or writing junk to the buffer you should be experiencing some battery drain. Remove the EAS delay control relay to isolate the self-levelling, put a voltmeter across the battery, set it to record peak values and if the leads are long enough put it on the floor under the car leaving it connected but with all the doors and bonnets etc closed. Wait a few minutes (about 3 for the BECM to go to sleep) reset the reading and then walk away. Next day see what the peak reading was. It will not be 0 because the BECM still has to monitor the volumetric alarm and watch for signals from the RF but I think it shouldn't draw more than about 0.3A (somebody will come along with the right numbers). If its higher than that means your BECM woke up in the night due to a prod from the RF receiver.

Bonne chance!

The BECM should draw approx .03 amps when asleep.You cannot put a voltmeter across a battery to measure current!,if you do this and set it measure current you will short out the battery and probably melt the leads and start a fire.

 

[996TURBO]

Australian market with EKA disable mod guys That's the reliability price.

And i advised tons of YWY500170 RF boxes before saying this, sometimes signals are so strong

 

[rasheed]

You cannot put a voltmeter across a battery to measure current!,if you do this and set it measure current you will short out the battery and probably melt the leads and start a fire.

errm, you're quite right! but you know what I meant.

on the other hand it would have solved his problem.

 

[modelman]

I had similar problems about 5 years ago, tried everything already mentioned, sometimes I could get it working, others, not, also kept being locked-out, farted about with the key-codes, stripped all the locks/cleaned, latest reciever, found a supplier for a replacement ECU, & I was just about to change main ECU/locks etc. I had disconnected the ECU under the seat for about 5-6mins when I thought 'I'll try one more thing'!!
Then as I re-connected everything, there was all sorts of 'clicks & bangs' from all around the car, then the indicators flashed a couple of times, No, surely not, could it be??
Pressed the button, indicators flashed, got in, switched on, & the bloody thing started like nothing had happened, been perfect ever since, bit like a computer I expect, some sort of 'reset', AND, I never had to re-sync the key (only got 1)

 

[jerrytlr]

Thanks for all the input. I will try with the antenna wire disconnected and see if I can get it the fobs to resync - I take it I need to be right next to the rear window in order for it to work?

Modelman that sounds like something worth trying too - which ECU did you disconnect, presumably the BECM?

996turbo - I would be happy to disable the immobiliser, however how much of the alarm/central locking system remains in place with this mod? Do you lose remote locking completely??


Cheers,

Jerry

 

[modelman]

Thanks for all the input. I will try with the antenna wire disconnected and see if I can get it the fobs to resync - I take it I need to be right next to the rear window in order for it to work?

Modelman that sounds like something worth trying too - which ECU did you disconnect, presumably the BECM?

996turbo - I would be happy to disable the immobiliser, however how much of the alarm/central locking system remains in place with this mod? Do you lose remote locking completely??


Cheers,

Jerry

Yes, it was the BECM that 'reset' itself after re-connection, maybe it will work for you, worth a try I would think!
Also, I can disable the alarm & imobiliser on my 2.5 DSE via the Rovacom & the central-locking still works normally, I actually did for a few months simply to see what happened!!