Word to the wise

hugh wrote:

|| If there is no reduction or relief for remorse or good behaviour then
|| there is no incentive but the reductions which are given have become
|| disproportionate.

Unless of course you reverse the principle: the sentence is handed down on
the assumption of "good behaviour", with the promise of extra time for "bad
behaviour".

Ten years for armed robbery. Add 10% to the sentence for every misdemeanour
while inside, 50% for each escape attempt, double sentence for assaulting a
prison officer, and so on. I know in some cases we would end up with guys
inside for a thousand years, and I know it would be expensive, but with a
good chance of not getting caught, and lenient sentencing when you are, it's
no wonder a lot of people are seeing crime as a viable career alternative.

--
Rich
==============================

I don't approve of signatures, so I don't have one.

I would guess the North West of Scotland is an absolute bitch to be skint in
for a vintage landie owner, considering the distance of everything and the
cost of petrol

Took a holiday out there some years ago in my limo during one of the
periodic hikes in the price of oil

But nothing is the same now the last AB telephone coinbox on the shores of
Loch Assynt or wherever it was is in a museum.

Oh well I guess I come from a family of atavists, I can still phone my
brother bakelite to bakelite


--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes



"Ian Rawlings" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2006-07-16, Richard Brookman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> Aargh, the midges! My scalp's started to itch just thinking of them.
> I'm actually scratching by head right now :-( Them getting in your
> ears was the worst though.
>
> As for 1968, was scotland invented back then? I was there 1973-1984,
> on the shores of Loch Melfort on the west coast.
>
> > Didn't notice any smell of fish - actually I really liked the area and
made
> > a promise to return one day.
>
> It's one of those places that's easy to visit, not so nice to live in.
> If you want to be poor somewhere, don't choose the scottish
> countryside, it's an absolute bitch of a place to be skint in!
>
> There's a lot of nice scenery out that way, an awful lot of it, mostly
> mountains though, not a huge variation. Blighted by the forestry
> commission's misguided canadian spruce plantations, if you walk
> through the depths of one under the trees, there's few birds, no
> grass, no flowers, not much light, just a carpet of tree droppings.
> Thankfully they've stopped planting now but it'll take a long time to
> recover.
>
> --
> Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

On or around Fri, 14 Jul 2006 20:30:42 +0100, Dougal
<DougalAThiskennel.free-online.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:

>Ian Rawlings wrote:
>
>> Those appear to be the rules, and it would seem that the judge doesn't
>> have a whole lot to do with it, given that they have to follow rules
>> laid down by various agencies patching the law here and there for
>> administrative convenience mostly from the look of it.
>
>Go on, don't shirk the issue - put the blame squarely where it lies.
>It's Bliar and his cronies - again.

and they have the cheek to complain that the sentence, as laid down by the
"guidelines" is too lenient, with the implication that the judge was at
fault.

it's all about not having to spend money on more prison space. If you say
"life means life, no parole for minimum 20 years", then you need more prison
spaces, and that costs money.

Personally, I reckon castration would be a fitting punishment for
repeat-offender rapists, and possibly for any rapist who pleads guilty.
There's too much risk of unsafe convictions these days, though, for my
liking in sex-offences - seems to me (and I look admittedly from a male
perspective) that a man accused of rape can have a hell of a time proving he
didn't, even if he was in fact innocent of the crime and was being "framed"
as the vernacular has it, by someone bearing a grudge, for example [3], or
as a result of a a one-night stand about which the woman later had second
thoughts, and that too has happened.

I tend to hold the view[2] that everyone for more or less any crime gets one
shot at (relatively) lenient punishment and learning their lesson, but that
for anything involving major detrimental effect on others (and that includes
murder and also manslaughter and especially the recent-ish cop out "causing
death by dangerous driving"[1] as well as things like GBH and rape) should,
on a second offence, have the metaphorical book thrown at 'em; since they
have then clearly demonstrated that they haven't learned their lesson and
have continued to be asocial and violent despite the previous punishment.

Granting in all cases that the conviction is sound. But in the
much-discussed Sweeney case, there's no doubt about guilt.





[1] which seems to attract ludicrously short sentences and light punishment.
If you want to kill someone, do it with a car...

[2] but then I'm a soft, sentimental and trusting bugger at heart.

[3]I know of one case where a bloke was accused of having sex (NOT rape)
with a 14-year-old. He had done no such thing and in the end I don't think
it even came to court, but that didn't stop him losing his job and being
hounded out of the place he was living. In that case, the girl and her
boyfriend had a grudge against him for some reason and cooked it up between
them.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero" (sieze today, and put
as little trust as you can in tomorrow) Horace (65 - 8 BC) Odes, I.xi.8

On or around Sun, 16 Jul 2006 10:25:54 +0100, "Richard Brookman"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Ian Rawlings wrote:
>
>|| On 2006-07-15, Richard Brookman <[email protected]> wrote:
>||
>||| Funny that - one of the hottest holidays I have ever had was around
>||| Fort William and Oban.
>||
>|| Oban was my "local" town, it must have stank of fish, it did in the
>|| winter, let alone summer!
>||
>|| It was hot on occasion, but not as much as down here, and down here's
>|| hardly hot all year round. I'd go bonkers if it was always hot.
>
>Must have been a freak summer, around 1968-ish. Two weeks, I had never been
>so hot for so long, got badly sunburnt (this was before the advent of Factor
>500) and bitten to death by them blasted midges.
>
>Didn't notice any smell of fish - actually I really liked the area and made
>a promise to return one day.

yeah, I liked Oban. and the west coast of Scotland is indeed the home of
the killer midge.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero" (sieze today, and put
as little trust as you can in tomorrow) Horace (65 - 8 BC) Odes, I.xi.8

but just think of the cost of training all those lawyers to throw the
prescribed books the right lengths as laid down in sentencing regulations.


--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
..
>
> I tend to hold the view[2] that everyone for more or less any crime gets
one
> shot at (relatively) lenient punishment and learning their lesson, but
that
> for anything involving major detrimental effect on others (and that
includes
> murder and also manslaughter and especially the recent-ish cop out
"causing
> death by dangerous driving"[1] as well as things like GBH and rape)
should,
> on a second offence, have the metaphorical book thrown at 'em; since they
> have then clearly demonstrated that they haven't learned their lesson and
> have continued to be asocial and violent despite the previous punishment.
>

On or around Fri, 14 Jul 2006 09:25:49 +0100, Mother <"@ {mother}
@"@101fc.net> enlightened us thusly:

>On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 08:54:24 +0100, Austin Shackles
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>seems not. Mind, I reckon (having had some contact with him face-to-face,
>>that he's not evil but mentally deranged, and as such would be better served
>>in a suitable institution rather than just being in jail.
>
>Although you may very well be correct in this assessment, there are no
>such services for such folk, and given the impossible job being given
>to the Probation Service, re-offending is more likely.

yeah. 's one of the myriad problems in this sorry world... all part of
[don't] care in [about] the community, innit. part and parcel of shutting
down all the mental homes and kicking the inmates out into the "real world"
with questionable levels of support and in some cases no doubt none at all.
And they wonder why some of them go off the rails.

not that that, AFAIK, applies in this case - although he has been locked up
in a secure unit in the past, I believe.

Perhaps we need the equivalent of Heinlein's "Coventry", where asocial
people were sent. Trouble is, the alternative is a paternalistic state
adjusting your mind so that you behave within the accepted norm, and I doubt
that's particularly good either. The story I particularly remember has
someone thumping a bloke who clearly deserved it, and being sent to coventry
as a result.

But I reckon we do indeed need as a society somewhere (basically, a prison,
but it needn't be in the form of cell blocks etc.) that people who refuse or
can't fit in with reasonable rules of society can be kept from harming
others.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Remember that to change your mind and follow him who sets you right
is to be none the less free than you were before."
Marcus Aurelius Antoninus (121-180), from Meditations, VIII.16

Richard Brookman wrote:
> I know in some cases we would end up with guys
> inside for a thousand years, and I know it would be expensive, but with a
> good chance of not getting caught, and lenient sentencing when you are, it's
> no wonder a lot of people are seeing crime as a viable career alternative.

Get this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_west/5184652.stm

"Two men were released by police after a caution but were then
re-arrested after the owner of the trawler, Paul Jones, said he feared
serious damage may have been caused to the engine."

Steal a 40 grand trawler (the livelihood of at least one person), sail
about with no idea where you are going or any idea of what you are
doing, instigate an air-sea rescue costing thousands and potentially
risking the lives of the rescuers - and the police will release you
with a caution!

Note how it's only when the trawler owner fears serious damage and
therefore expense that they decide to re-arrest them and take it a bit
more seriously.

Steal, risk lives - slapped wrist.
Get involved in liability issue - hanging's too good for you.

Don't make sense to me.

DaveP

On 2006-07-17, Austin Shackles <[email protected]> wrote:

> [3]I know of one case where a bloke was accused of having sex (NOT rape)
> with a 14-year-old. He had done no such thing and in the end I don't think
> it even came to court, but that didn't stop him losing his job and being
> hounded out of the place he was living. In that case, the girl and her
> boyfriend had a grudge against him for some reason and cooked it up between
> them.

I'm not comfy with the way crimes are reported before conviction, and
some of the language used. While it's an emotive subject, the recent
Chris Langham case is a good recent example, comedy star accused of 15
counts of "making indecent images of children". This was reported
before he was convicted, and I was surprised to find that "making
indecent images" of children in this case means *downloading* them,
not actually taking photos of kids. Still a stupid thing to do, but
not as bad as what the language used implies. He's yet to be
convicted and if it's found that the whole thing was a huge mistake or
a grudge job, he'll still be up the ****ter. At the moment, due to no
conviction, we don't know whether he deserves a kicking or sympathy.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

On 2006-07-17, Austin Shackles <[email protected]> wrote:

> yeah, I liked Oban. and the west coast of Scotland is indeed the home of
> the killer midge.

I went to school there, Oban High School, scary ugly place, with a
permanently drunk headmaster and lots of spotty fat girls. The
buildings were due for demolition IIRC, good riddance, it looked, felt
and smelled like a prison. The amount of bigotry around was immense,
catholics, protestants, english, scottish, football teams, school
"clans", you name it, they fought over it. Even now it's a problem;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/5185422.stm

I don't have fond memories of scotland you might gather, nice to visit though.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 10:31:44 +0100, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> wrote:

> ...
> Perhaps we need the equivalent of Heinlein's "Coventry", where asocial
> people were sent. Trouble is, the alternative is a paternalistic state
> adjusting your mind so that you behave within the accepted norm, and I
> doubt
> that's particularly good either. The story I particularly remember has
> someone thumping a bloke who clearly deserved it, and being sent to
> coventry
> as a result.

Good story though - punishment was based on 'harm done' not stupid
legislation about 'possible harm' IIRC

> But I reckon we do indeed need as a society somewhere (basically, a
> prison,
> but it needn't be in the form of cell blocks etc.) that people who
> refuse or
> can't fit in with reasonable rules of society can be kept from harming
> others.

Someone mentioned Australia earlier. Perhaps one of the more remote
Scottish isles? or Reading

--
William Tasso

Land Rover - 110 V8
Discovery - V8

William Tasso wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 10:31:44 +0100, Austin Shackles
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> ...
>> Perhaps we need the equivalent of Heinlein's "Coventry", where asocial
>> people were sent. Trouble is, the alternative is a paternalistic state
>> adjusting your mind so that you behave within the accepted norm, and I
>> doubt
>> that's particularly good either. The story I particularly remember has
>> someone thumping a bloke who clearly deserved it, and being sent to
>> coventry
>> as a result.
>
> Good story though - punishment was based on 'harm done' not stupid
> legislation about 'possible harm' IIRC
>
>> But I reckon we do indeed need as a society somewhere (basically, a
>> prison,
>> but it needn't be in the form of cell blocks etc.) that people who
>> refuse or
>> can't fit in with reasonable rules of society can be kept from harming
>> others.
>
> Someone mentioned Australia earlier. Perhaps one of the more remote
> Scottish isles? or Reading
>
> --William Tasso
>
> Land Rover - 110 V8
> Discovery - V8

We're thinking about exporting our crims back to Mother England. This
will increase the IQ of both countries

Karen <ducks & runs>

--
"Sometimes I think I have a Guardian Idiot - a little invisible spirit
just behind my shoulder, looking out for me ... only he's an imbecile" -
Jake Stonebender

On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:17:06 +0100, Karen Gallagher <[email protected]>
wrote:

> William Tasso wrote:
>> On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 10:31:44 +0100, Austin Shackles
>> <[email protected]> wrote:

>>
>>> But I reckon we do indeed need as a society somewhere (basically, a
>>> prison,
>>> but it needn't be in the form of cell blocks etc.) that people who
>>> refuse or
>>> can't fit in with reasonable rules of society can be kept from harming
>>> others.
>> Someone mentioned Australia earlier. Perhaps one of the more remote
>> Scottish isles? or Reading

>
> We're thinking about exporting our crims back to Mother England.

Good, we need more bar staff.

> This will increase the IQ of both countries

hoot

> Karen <ducks & runs>

but you can't hide.

--
William Tasso

Land Rover - 110 V8
Discovery - V8

On 2006-07-17, William Tasso <[email protected]> wrote:

> Someone mentioned Australia earlier. Perhaps one of the more remote
> Scottish isles? or Reading

No, Basingstoke, sending people to Reading is inhumane!

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

Karen Gallagher wrote:

> We're thinking about exporting our crims back to Mother England. This
> will increase the IQ of both countries

You stole that on from the late Robert Muldoon, one time Prime Minister
of NZ.

--
EMB

Larry wrote:
> I would guess the North West of Scotland is an absolute bitch to be
> skint in for a vintage landie owner, considering the distance of
> everything and the cost of petrol
>
> Took a holiday out there some years ago in my limo during one of the
> periodic hikes in the price of oil
>
> But nothing is the same now the last AB telephone coinbox on the
> shores of Loch Assynt or wherever it was is in a museum.
>
> Oh well I guess I come from a family of atavists, I can still phone my
> brother bakelite to bakelite
>

But the likelyhood of a direct (wire) connection is vanishingly small, unless he's
up in his bedroom and you're in the lounge!

--
"He who says it cannot be done would be well advised not to interrupt
her doing it."

If the answer is offensive maybe the question was inappropriate

The fiend of my fiend is my enema!

On 2006-07-17, GbH <[email protected]> wrote:

> But the likelyhood of a direct (wire) connection is vanishingly small, unless he's
> up in his bedroom and you're in the lounge!

Of course it's not a direct connection, old Whinnie in the exchange
has to plug him into the right connection first!

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

Well give me a long enough piece of string and a couple of old bean cans,
and we could be chatting away if it wasn't for the houses inbetween


--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes


"GbH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Larry wrote:

> >
>
> But the likelyhood of a direct (wire) connection is vanishingly small,
unless he's
> up in his bedroom and you're in the lounge!
>
> --
> "He who says it cannot be done would be well advised not to interrupt
> her doing it."
>
> If the answer is offensive maybe the question was inappropriate
>
> The fiend of my fiend is my enema!
>
>

Hey careful what you say, I live in Coventry, and there are plenty of decent
Land Rover owning folk around here.


--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes



"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Fri, 14 Jul 2006 09:25:49 +0100, Mother <"@ {mother}
> @"@101fc.net> enlightened us thusly:
>
>
> yeah. 's one of the myriad problems in this sorry world... all part of
> [don't] care in [about] the community, innit. part and parcel of shutting
> down all the mental homes and kicking the inmates out into the "real
world"
> with questionable levels of support and in some cases no doubt none at
all.
> And they wonder why some of them go off the rails.
>
> not that that, AFAIK, applies in this case - although he has been locked
up
> in a secure unit in the past, I believe.
>
> Perhaps we need the equivalent of Heinlein's "Coventry", where asocial
> people were sent. Trouble is, the alternative is a paternalistic state
> adjusting your mind so that you behave within the accepted norm, and I
doubt
> that's particularly good either. The story I particularly remember has
> someone thumping a bloke who clearly deserved it, and being sent to
coventry
> as a result.
>
> But I reckon we do indeed need as a society somewhere (basically, a
prison,
> but it needn't be in the form of cell blocks etc.) that people who refuse
or
> can't fit in with reasonable rules of society can be kept from harming
> others.
> --
> Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
> "Remember that to change your mind and follow him who sets you right
> is to be none the less free than you were before."
> Marcus Aurelius Antoninus (121-180), from Meditations, VIII.16

EMB wrote:
> Karen Gallagher wrote:
>
>> We're thinking about exporting our crims back to Mother England. This
>> will increase the IQ of both countries
>
> You stole that on from the late Robert Muldoon, one time Prime Minister
> of NZ.
>
Guilty as charged. Please don't deport me to England, M'Lud!

'Tis true, though

K

--
"Sometimes I think I have a Guardian Idiot - a little invisible spirit
just behind my shoulder, looking out for me ... only he's an imbecile" -
Jake Stonebender

Karen Gallagher wrote:
> EMB wrote:
>
>> Karen Gallagher wrote:
>>
>>> We're thinking about exporting our crims back to Mother England. This
>>> will increase the IQ of both countries
>>
>>
>> You stole that on from the late Robert Muldoon, one time Prime
>> Minister of NZ.
>>
> Guilty as charged. Please don't deport me to England, M'Lud!
>
> 'Tis true, though

Tis indeed. Right now being deported to England mightn't be too bad -
37 degrees forecast for tomorrow, which would be a nice change from the
8 degrees here - I've had to dig a coat out cos I'm starting to feel cold.

--
EMB