Wiring for Winch

S

Scott C.

Guest

• Jan 25, 2004

• #1

I am installing a Warn 8274 winch and need some help with what size of
wires to use going to the Battery. My instincts say use 2 ga. Is
this right?
Also, is it important to run the ground directly to the Battery
terminal instead of grounding it via the engine block or frame?
By the way, how does this winch consume 400+ amps when my battery and
alternator combined don't come close to that? Thanks in advance.

Scott

 

M

Mike Romain

Guest

• Jan 25, 2004

• #2

It needs direct to the battery cables.

If you load that winch up to stall, you can/will melt your battery and
alternator if they are not big enough to take the load.

I had the stock warn cables smoking bad enough to melt the heat shrink
off the ends when I stalled my 9000 once.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

"Scott C." wrote:
>
> I am installing a Warn 8274 winch and need some help with what size of
> wires to use going to the Battery. My instincts say use 2 ga. Is
> this right?
> Also, is it important to run the ground directly to the Battery
> terminal instead of grounding it via the engine block or frame?
> By the way, how does this winch consume 400+ amps when my battery and
> alternator combined don't come close to that? Thanks in advance.
>
> Scott

 

M

Matt Mead

Guest

• Jan 25, 2004

• #3

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 10:06:28 -0500, Mike Romain <[email protected]>
wrote:

>If you load that winch up to stall, you can/will melt your battery and
>alternator if they are not big enough to take the load.


Yeah, years ago on a 72 Bronco I had the charge wire off the
alternator completely melt due to a heavy drain from my 8274. After
upgrading the wire size I never had another issue. (Best winch I've
ever seen!)

Matt
99 V-10 Super Duty, Super Cab 4x4

 

R

Roger Brown

Guest

• Jan 25, 2004

• #4

Mike Romain wrote:
>
> It needs direct to the battery cables.
>
> If you load that winch up to stall, you can/will melt your battery and
> alternator if they are not big enough to take the load.
>
> I had the stock warn cables smoking bad enough to melt the heat shrink
> off the ends when I stalled my 9000 once.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
> "Scott C." wrote:
> >
> > I am installing a Warn 8274 winch and need some help with what size of
> > wires to use going to the Battery. My instincts say use 2 ga. Is
> > this right?
> > Also, is it important to run the ground directly to the Battery
> > terminal instead of grounding it via the engine block or frame?
> > By the way, how does this winch consume 400+ amps when my battery and
> > alternator combined don't come close to that? Thanks in advance.

I uses 1/0 welding cable for mine:
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/DualBatteries.shtml

The Warn winch (XD9000) came with 2 or 4 ga. wire attached to it as I recall. I cut that short and terminated it in a 350A quick disconnect and 1/0 from there back to the battery. And I ran both power and ground wires directly to the battery. If you
don't run a ground, you can run into problems with ground loops and voltage drops if the ground connections and paths are not solid.

While your alternator is only good for 100A or so, the battery can put out many 100s of amps, look at the cold cranking amps, many batteries are rated 800-1000 cranking amps, that's where the current in excess of what your alternator puts out comes from.

--
Roger

 

R

rnf2

Guest

• Jan 25, 2004

• #5

"Roger Brown" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mike Romain wrote:
> >
> > It needs direct to the battery cables.
> >
> > If you load that winch up to stall, you can/will melt your battery and
> > alternator if they are not big enough to take the load.
> >
> > I had the stock warn cables smoking bad enough to melt the heat shrink
> > off the ends when I stalled my 9000 once.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > "Scott C." wrote:
> > >
> > > I am installing a Warn 8274 winch and need some help with what size of
> > > wires to use going to the Battery. My instincts say use 2 ga. Is
> > > this right?
> > > Also, is it important to run the ground directly to the Battery
> > > terminal instead of grounding it via the engine block or frame?
> > > By the way, how does this winch consume 400+ amps when my battery and
> > > alternator combined don't come close to that? Thanks in advance.
>
> I uses 1/0 welding cable for mine:
> http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/DualBatteries.shtml
>
> The Warn winch (XD9000) came with 2 or 4 ga. wire attached to it as I
recall. I cut that short and terminated it in a 350A quick disconnect and
1/0 from there back to the battery. And I ran both power and ground wires
directly to the battery. If you
> don't run a ground, you can run into problems with ground loops and
voltage drops if the ground connections and paths are not solid.
>
> While your alternator is only good for 100A or so, the battery can put out
many 100s of amps, look at the cold cranking amps, many batteries are rated
800-1000 cranking amps, that's where the current in excess of what your
alternator puts out comes from.
>
if you have a small alternator you'll have to run the engine for a while
longer to charge the battery than you ran the winch for. a warn 9000 can
flatten a 750 CCA battery pulling a heavy loaded Disco out of axle deep mud
using a double pulley block. so make sure you keep the motor running so you
don't need to start the motor and find no current left.

rhys

 

T

Thom

Guest

• Apr 3, 2004

• #6

If you guys are melting alternator output leads, find an electrician! ALL
domestic applications I have worked on are PROTECTED by a FUSE or similar
device.If the fuse is of proper rating, you have no worry.
A similar problem that sometimes occurs is the solenoids for the winch
"weld" in the closed position,which means things keep running after you let
go of button. I bought a aircraft circuit breaker surplus, so I get
protection from shorts, and an emergency shut-off.


"Scott C." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I am installing a Warn 8274 winch and need some help with what size of
> wires to use going to the Battery. My instincts say use 2 ga. Is
> this right?
> Also, is it important to run the ground directly to the Battery
> terminal instead of grounding it via the engine block or frame?
> By the way, how does this winch consume 400+ amps when my battery and
> alternator combined don't come close to that? Thanks in advance.
>
> Scott

 

R

Roger Brown

Guest

• Apr 3, 2004

• #7

Thom wrote:
>
> If you guys are melting alternator output leads, find an electrician! ALL
> domestic applications I have worked on are PROTECTED by a FUSE or similar
> device.If the fuse is of proper rating, you have no worry.
> A similar problem that sometimes occurs is the solenoids for the winch
> "weld" in the closed position,which means things keep running after you let
> go of button. I bought a aircraft circuit breaker surplus, so I get
> protection from shorts, and an emergency shut-off.
>
> "Scott C." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I am installing a Warn 8274 winch and need some help with what size of
> > wires to use going to the Battery. My instincts say use 2 ga. Is
> > this right?
> > Also, is it important to run the ground directly to the Battery
> > terminal instead of grounding it via the engine block or frame?
> > By the way, how does this winch consume 400+ amps when my battery and
> > alternator combined don't come close to that? Thanks in advance.

I used 1/0 cable for my Warn 9000 winch with quick disconnects to unhook it from power if needed. While your alternator may only put out 100A or so, your battery can put out up to its "cranking amp" rating, usually 600-1000A.

--
Roger

 

M

Mike Romain

Guest

• Apr 3, 2004

• #8

My Warn XD 9000i winch does 'not' have a fuse on the power lines. It
connects direct to the battery and the 2ga cable can get smoking hot.

Alternators in automobiles also do not have fuses. They have a fuse
link wire that melts as the other poster mentions. These wires can just
wear out too from continuous 'full draw' pull.

I would not however recommend his fix up upping the size of the fuse
link wire. If I had continuous heat issues, I would put an inline fuse
in rather than have to change fuse links all the time.

How come you need a breaker if your winch is protected by a fuse like
you mention below?

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Thom wrote:
>
> If you guys are melting alternator output leads, find an electrician! ALL
> domestic applications I have worked on are PROTECTED by a FUSE or similar
> device.If the fuse is of proper rating, you have no worry.
> A similar problem that sometimes occurs is the solenoids for the winch
> "weld" in the closed position,which means things keep running after you let
> go of button. I bought a aircraft circuit breaker surplus, so I get
> protection from shorts, and an emergency shut-off.
>
> "Scott C." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I am installing a Warn 8274 winch and need some help with what size of
> > wires to use going to the Battery. My instincts say use 2 ga. Is
> > this right?
> > Also, is it important to run the ground directly to the Battery
> > terminal instead of grounding it via the engine block or frame?
> > By the way, how does this winch consume 400+ amps when my battery and
> > alternator combined don't come close to that? Thanks in advance.
> >
> > Scott

 

R

Refinish King

Guest

• Apr 4, 2004

• #9

How about adding a second battery,

in paralell with the original battery. as an added measure of stored
amperage when using the winch, remove the fusible link and replace it with
an inline fuse near the original battery.

There are so many different types, shapes and sizes of fuses in the amperage
you need. Look up the amperage on the fusible link, replace it with an
uninsulater solderless connector, put shrink tubing on the wire first,
prepare the wire and connector for solder too. Solder it, then shrink the
shrink tube over the splices. Cover the ends of the shrink tube with clear
silicone.

Now, at the end of the wire, where it either connects to the battery, or a
bulkhead connector, ass the connectors for the type of fuse you chose, and
again, do the shrink tubing, solder and silicone. Have a couple of spares.

With an extra battery, you should never need to replace the fuse. With sound
systems that other installers put in, and customers come in asking how I can
fix the burning wire problem. I explain amperage draw, and wire sizes, and
propose the extra battery, and the fuse. None are ever diddatisfied.

Refinish King

PS

The same fix holds trus for the shops with electric tow trucks.


"Mike Romain" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> My Warn XD 9000i winch does 'not' have a fuse on the power lines. It
> connects direct to the battery and the 2ga cable can get smoking hot.
>
> Alternators in automobiles also do not have fuses. They have a fuse
> link wire that melts as the other poster mentions. These wires can just
> wear out too from continuous 'full draw' pull.
>
> I would not however recommend his fix up upping the size of the fuse
> link wire. If I had continuous heat issues, I would put an inline fuse
> in rather than have to change fuse links all the time.
>
> How come you need a breaker if your winch is protected by a fuse like
> you mention below?
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
> Thom wrote:
> >
> > If you guys are melting alternator output leads, find an electrician!
ALL
> > domestic applications I have worked on are PROTECTED by a FUSE or
similar
> > device.If the fuse is of proper rating, you have no worry.
> > A similar problem that sometimes occurs is the solenoids for the winch
> > "weld" in the closed position,which means things keep running after you
let
> > go of button. I bought a aircraft circuit breaker surplus, so I get
> > protection from shorts, and an emergency shut-off.
> >
> > "Scott C." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > I am installing a Warn 8274 winch and need some help with what size of
> > > wires to use going to the Battery. My instincts say use 2 ga. Is
> > > this right?
> > > Also, is it important to run the ground directly to the Battery
> > > terminal instead of grounding it via the engine block or frame?
> > > By the way, how does this winch consume 400+ amps when my battery and
> > > alternator combined don't come close to that? Thanks in advance.
> > >
> > > Scott

 

C

Chris Phillipo

Guest

• Apr 4, 2004

• #10

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> How about adding a second battery,
>
> in paralell with the original battery. as an added measure of stored
> amperage when using the winch, remove the fusible link and replace it with
> an inline fuse near the original battery.
>
> There are so many different types, shapes and sizes of fuses in the amperage
> you need. Look up the amperage on the fusible link, replace it with an
> uninsulater solderless connector, put shrink tubing on the wire first,
> prepare the wire and connector for solder too. Solder it, then shrink the
> shrink tube over the splices. Cover the ends of the shrink tube with clear
> silicone.
>
> Now, at the end of the wire, where it either connects to the battery, or a
> bulkhead connector, ass the connectors for the type of fuse you chose, and
> again, do the shrink tubing, solder and silicone. Have a couple of spares.
>
> With an extra battery, you should never need to replace the fuse. With sound
> systems that other installers put in, and customers come in asking how I can
> fix the burning wire problem. I explain amperage draw, and wire sizes, and
> propose the extra battery, and the fuse. None are ever diddatisfied.
>
> Refinish King
>
> PS
>
> The same fix holds trus for the shops with electric tow trucks.

Whatever you use you want it to be easily field serviceable, being stuck
in the middle of no where at nightfall with a melted wire you can't get
at isn't preferable to getting home with a damaged alternator if you ask
me
--
____________________
Remove "X" from email address to reply.

 

R

Refinish King

Guest

• Apr 4, 2004

• #11

Hence a fuse in place of the fusible link:

Plus the extra battery for less amperage draw on the one battery, and drwa
on the alternator. Which causes the wire overheating.

Refinish King

"Chris Phillipo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
> > How about adding a second battery,
> >
> > in paralell with the original battery. as an added measure of stored
> > amperage when using the winch, remove the fusible link and replace it
with
> > an inline fuse near the original battery.
> >
> > There are so many different types, shapes and sizes of fuses in the
amperage
> > you need. Look up the amperage on the fusible link, replace it with an
> > uninsulater solderless connector, put shrink tubing on the wire first,
> > prepare the wire and connector for solder too. Solder it, then shrink
the
> > shrink tube over the splices. Cover the ends of the shrink tube with
clear
> > silicone.
> >
> > Now, at the end of the wire, where it either connects to the battery, or
a
> > bulkhead connector, ass the connectors for the type of fuse you chose,
and
> > again, do the shrink tubing, solder and silicone. Have a couple of
spares.
> >
> > With an extra battery, you should never need to replace the fuse. With
sound
> > systems that other installers put in, and customers come in asking how I
can
> > fix the burning wire problem. I explain amperage draw, and wire sizes,
and
> > propose the extra battery, and the fuse. None are ever diddatisfied.
> >
> > Refinish King
> >
> > PS
> >
> > The same fix holds trus for the shops with electric tow trucks.
>
> Whatever you use you want it to be easily field serviceable, being stuck
> in the middle of no where at nightfall with a melted wire you can't get
> at isn't preferable to getting home with a damaged alternator if you ask
> me
> --
> ____________________
> Remove "X" from email address to reply.

 

A

Axel Hammer

Guest

• Apr 4, 2004

• #12

Thom schrieb:

> If you guys are melting alternator output leads, find an electrician! ALL
> domestic applications I have worked on are PROTECTED by a FUSE or similar
> device.If the fuse is of proper rating, you have no worry.
> A similar problem that sometimes occurs is the solenoids for the winch
> "weld" in the closed position,which means things keep running after you let
> go of button. I bought a aircraft circuit breaker surplus, so I get
> protection from shorts, and an emergency shut-off.

Hi!
There ARE fuses for up to 500Amps.
Got one in my BJ42, along with an emergency cutoff battery disconnect solenoid.

I've seen one time a car burning due to shortage on the (unfused) high-amp wire
leading to an amplifier in the rear. No one will ever touch a AWG5 wire glowing
light red and hanging all over the engine in the front compartment to
disconnect it.
Just think of an frontal crash shorting the live wire of your winch to ground.
Even if only your bumper is bent, you might as well run in need for a total new
car if it's burning down.

Regards,

Axel
http://www.power-trax.de/index-e.htm

 

M

Mike Romain

Guest

• Apr 4, 2004

• #13

When I splice in wires I do it like you describe, but I put dielectric
grease on the connection, then slide the heat shrink over before
shrinking. I think the grease is more permanently waterproof than
silicone. The silicone 'seal' can be broken by vibration or bending of
the connection. The grease seal stays flexible.

I do take my Jeep CJ7 out 'swimming' now and then and like water tight
connections.

I haven't had the need for a second battery yet, but then I don't winch
all day either. I only use it for extraction purposes, not to get some
place.

Mike

Refinish King wrote:
>
> How about adding a second battery,
>
> in paralell with the original battery. as an added measure of stored
> amperage when using the winch, remove the fusible link and replace it with
> an inline fuse near the original battery.
>
> There are so many different types, shapes and sizes of fuses in the amperage
> you need. Look up the amperage on the fusible link, replace it with an
> uninsulater solderless connector, put shrink tubing on the wire first,
> prepare the wire and connector for solder too. Solder it, then shrink the
> shrink tube over the splices. Cover the ends of the shrink tube with clear
> silicone.
>
> Now, at the end of the wire, where it either connects to the battery, or a
> bulkhead connector, ass the connectors for the type of fuse you chose, and
> again, do the shrink tubing, solder and silicone. Have a couple of spares.
>
> With an extra battery, you should never need to replace the fuse. With sound
> systems that other installers put in, and customers come in asking how I can
> fix the burning wire problem. I explain amperage draw, and wire sizes, and
> propose the extra battery, and the fuse. None are ever diddatisfied.
>
> Refinish King
>
> PS
>
> The same fix holds trus for the shops with electric tow trucks.
>
> "Mike Romain" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > My Warn XD 9000i winch does 'not' have a fuse on the power lines. It
> > connects direct to the battery and the 2ga cable can get smoking hot.
> >
> > Alternators in automobiles also do not have fuses. They have a fuse
> > link wire that melts as the other poster mentions. These wires can just
> > wear out too from continuous 'full draw' pull.
> >
> > I would not however recommend his fix up upping the size of the fuse
> > link wire. If I had continuous heat issues, I would put an inline fuse
> > in rather than have to change fuse links all the time.
> >
> > How come you need a breaker if your winch is protected by a fuse like
> > you mention below?
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > Thom wrote:
> > >
> > > If you guys are melting alternator output leads, find an electrician!
> ALL
> > > domestic applications I have worked on are PROTECTED by a FUSE or
> similar
> > > device.If the fuse is of proper rating, you have no worry.
> > > A similar problem that sometimes occurs is the solenoids for the winch
> > > "weld" in the closed position,which means things keep running after you
> let
> > > go of button. I bought a aircraft circuit breaker surplus, so I get
> > > protection from shorts, and an emergency shut-off.
> > >
> > > "Scott C." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > I am installing a Warn 8274 winch and need some help with what size of
> > > > wires to use going to the Battery. My instincts say use 2 ga. Is
> > > > this right?
> > > > Also, is it important to run the ground directly to the Battery
> > > > terminal instead of grounding it via the engine block or frame?
> > > > By the way, how does this winch consume 400+ amps when my battery and
> > > > alternator combined don't come close to that? Thanks in advance.
> > > >
> > > > Scott

 

R

Refinish King

Guest

• Apr 5, 2004

• #14

Good idea on the grease!

Thanks for the tip, it would ward off the electrolosys on the wire also.

Thanks again.

Refinish King


"Mike Romain" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> When I splice in wires I do it like you describe, but I put dielectric
> grease on the connection, then slide the heat shrink over before
> shrinking. I think the grease is more permanently waterproof than
> silicone. The silicone 'seal' can be broken by vibration or bending of
> the connection. The grease seal stays flexible.
>
> I do take my Jeep CJ7 out 'swimming' now and then and like water tight
> connections.
>
> I haven't had the need for a second battery yet, but then I don't winch
> all day either. I only use it for extraction purposes, not to get some
> place.
>
> Mike
>
> Refinish King wrote:
> >
> > How about adding a second battery,
> >
> > in paralell with the original battery. as an added measure of stored
> > amperage when using the winch, remove the fusible link and replace it
with
> > an inline fuse near the original battery.
> >
> > There are so many different types, shapes and sizes of fuses in the
amperage
> > you need. Look up the amperage on the fusible link, replace it with an
> > uninsulater solderless connector, put shrink tubing on the wire first,
> > prepare the wire and connector for solder too. Solder it, then shrink
the
> > shrink tube over the splices. Cover the ends of the shrink tube with
clear
> > silicone.
> >
> > Now, at the end of the wire, where it either connects to the battery, or
a
> > bulkhead connector, ass the connectors for the type of fuse you chose,
and
> > again, do the shrink tubing, solder and silicone. Have a couple of
spares.
> >
> > With an extra battery, you should never need to replace the fuse. With
sound
> > systems that other installers put in, and customers come in asking how I
can
> > fix the burning wire problem. I explain amperage draw, and wire sizes,
and
> > propose the extra battery, and the fuse. None are ever diddatisfied.
> >
> > Refinish King
> >
> > PS
> >
> > The same fix holds trus for the shops with electric tow trucks.
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > My Warn XD 9000i winch does 'not' have a fuse on the power lines. It
> > > connects direct to the battery and the 2ga cable can get smoking hot.
> > >
> > > Alternators in automobiles also do not have fuses. They have a fuse
> > > link wire that melts as the other poster mentions. These wires can
just
> > > wear out too from continuous 'full draw' pull.
> > >
> > > I would not however recommend his fix up upping the size of the fuse
> > > link wire. If I had continuous heat issues, I would put an inline
fuse
> > > in rather than have to change fuse links all the time.
> > >
> > > How come you need a breaker if your winch is protected by a fuse like
> > > you mention below?
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > Thom wrote:
> > > >
> > > > If you guys are melting alternator output leads, find an
electrician!
> > ALL
> > > > domestic applications I have worked on are PROTECTED by a FUSE or
> > similar
> > > > device.If the fuse is of proper rating, you have no worry.
> > > > A similar problem that sometimes occurs is the solenoids for the
winch
> > > > "weld" in the closed position,which means things keep running after
you
> > let
> > > > go of button. I bought a aircraft circuit breaker surplus, so I get
> > > > protection from shorts, and an emergency shut-off.
> > > >
> > > > "Scott C." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > > I am installing a Warn 8274 winch and need some help with what
size of
> > > > > wires to use going to the Battery. My instincts say use 2 ga. Is
> > > > > this right?
> > > > > Also, is it important to run the ground directly to the Battery
> > > > > terminal instead of grounding it via the engine block or frame?
> > > > > By the way, how does this winch consume 400+ amps when my battery
and
> > > > > alternator combined don't come close to that? Thanks in advance.
> > > > >
> > > > > Scott