wheel cylinder seal repair kits?

tom1disco.300 · Apr 23, 2013

hi all,some of you probably know iv been having probolems with my brakes(for ages) and have now found out 2 of my wheel cylinders are leaking,and at 40 quid each,they r ither going back,or getting rebuilt,and the boxes for them have dissapeared so,im fixing them! is there any decent repair kits about,other than ****part?

thanks,tom!

divie · Apr 23, 2013

Not sure if any others are about. Try lr series.
I am having quality issues with clutch master and slave cylinders O/E parts but only lasting 15/18 months so after the second time of replacing them they are getting seal kits.

dominicbeesley · Apr 23, 2013

You could try 'past party's they do Remanufacturing but might carry the seals.

tom1disco.300 · Apr 24, 2013

15-18 month,wish i cud get that out of mine,mine are only lasting a few month,3 at the max! okay,well thanks for the ideas and input,just beggining to **** me off,becuase these things aint cheap,at 40 quid each a corner,i aint just gonna chuck them away,and the guy wont take them back,so im just gonna have to repair them! seems to be very hard to find anyone who does 'decent' quality parts for old landrovers anymore!

thanks,tom!

dominicbeesley · Apr 24, 2013

What brake fluid are you using?

trax · Apr 24, 2013

tom1disco.300 said:
15-18 month,wish i cud get that out of mine,mine are only lasting a few month,3 at the max! okay,well thanks for the ideas and input,just beggining to **** me off,becuase these things aint cheap,at 40 quid each a corner,i aint just gonna chuck them away,and the guy wont take them back,so im just gonna have to repair them! seems to be very hard to find anyone who does 'decent' quality parts for old landrovers anymore!

thanks,tom!

Why won't the guy take them back, everything new has a one year warranty.

Oldseadog · Apr 24, 2013

Have you spoken with Paddocks?

Remember that if you are doing them yourself, use a very thin smear of vaseline on all the moving parts during assembly.

honolulujoe · Apr 24, 2013

if they only lasted 3 months, as trax says they should be covered by warranty, nevertheless i would argue that 3 months for a brake cylinder would make it not fit for purpose under the sale of goods act so if he is a business seller he should take them back.

if you paid by credit card i would phone the card company and bounce the payment.

mrchurchill109 · Apr 25, 2013

Oldseadog said:
Have you spoken with Paddocks?

Remember that if you are doing them yourself, use a very thin smear of vaseline on all the moving parts during assembly.

I'd use and do use Girling red brake grease - petroleum jelly is not really a good idea with brake parts. Petrochemicals and some seal materials are just not a good combination.

ajr

mistericeman · Apr 25, 2013

tom1disco.300 said:
hi all,some of you probably know iv been having probolems with my brakes(for ages) and have now found out 2 of my wheel cylinders are leaking,and at 40 quid each,they r ither going back,or getting rebuilt,and the boxes for them have dissapeared so,im fixing them! is there any decent repair kits about,other than ****part?

thanks,tom!

What make are they ??? And in what way have they "failed"
Were they fitted to a full new braking system .

The trouble is IF the rest of your braking system has old components in it ...brake lines/master cylinder etc,Then in all honesty you are fighting a losing battle even using quality parts like girling/ap etc .
Brake fluid is hygroscopic (absorbs water) AND will over time hold enough water to start to form rust/corrosion on the internal surfaces of solid brake lines (old steel ones especially)master cylinders/slave cylinders,AND allow particles of rust to travel around the hydraulic system damaging seals etc .

A new cylinder is often only a temporary repair

trax · Apr 25, 2013

mistericeman said:
What make are they ??? And in what way have they "failed"
Were they fitted to a full new braking system .

The trouble is IF the rest of your braking system has old components in it ...brake lines/master cylinder etc,Then in all honesty you are fighting a losing battle even using quality parts like girling/ap etc .
Brake fluid is hygroscopic (absorbs water) AND will over time hold enough water to start to form rust/corrosion on the internal surfaces of solid brake lines (old steel ones especially)master cylinders/slave cylinders,AND allow particles of rust to travel around the hydraulic system damaging seals etc .

A new cylinder is often only a temporary repair

You are meant to swap out brake fluid every couple of years or so and if it was that bad I'm sure he would have noticed. Unless he is driving a huge rustbucket then it seems a bit far fetched imo

mistericeman · Apr 25, 2013

trax said:
You are meant to swap out brake fluid every couple of years or so and if it was that bad I'm sure he would have noticed. Unless he is driving a huge rustbucket then it seems a bit far fetched imo

No offence ...
BUT have you ever sliced open a length of steel brake pipe or sectioned a wheel/master cylinder to demonstrate the effects of water held in brake fluid to a group of apprentice motor vehicle technicians ???

I promise you even when you have fully bled a hydraulic brake system with clean new fluid ...not long after it will be dirty as it picks up contaminants from old components in there .

As for swapping the fluid out ...yes you are to reduce the amount of moisture held in the system ...
How many folks replace the brake fluid in their landrover every couple of years (aside from the fact that you are doing pretty well to keep any fluid in a landrover for that period of time

)

Obviously none of the above matters IF you have fitted anything that has arrived in a ****part box that's made out of cheese ..
thats just asking to fail

trax · Apr 25, 2013

mistericeman said:
No offence ...
BUT have you ever sliced open a length of steel brake pipe or sectioned a wheel/master cylinder to demonstrate the effects of water held in brake fluid to a group of apprentice motor vehicle technicians ???

I promise you even when you have fully bled a hydraulic brake system with clean new fluid ...not long after it will be dirty as it picks up contaminants from old components in there .

I haven't, no.

If the fluid contains enough rust that it damaged the seals, then wouldn't you notice it when you started switching over the components? I've always noticed old fluid to be dark, dirty and gritty compared to fresh.

I'm not saying it wouldn't get dirty again, but at the time of the failure wouldn't it be obvious?

mistericeman · Apr 25, 2013

trax said:
I haven't, no.

If the fluid contains enough rust that it damaged the seals, then wouldn't you notice it when you started switching over the components? I've always noticed old fluid to be dark, dirty and gritty compared to fresh.

I'm not saying it wouldn't get dirty again, but at the time of the failure wouldn't it be obvious?

Sometimes it can be obviously containing small gritty particles that get trapped between the wiper seals and the surface of the cylinder shredding the edges of the rubber seal on a minute level ...
The process of the small particles also abrade the smooth surface of the cylinder giving the moisture in the brake fluid chance to start rusting the surface .
Compounding factors of worn seals and rust pockets below the level of the cylinder wall can then allow fluid to pass where it shouldn't ...Remember we are talking fairly substantial pressures here and it doesn't take much for the seal to leak ...
Brake fluid is also very good at creeping ...Moisture in the fluid is exacerbated in a system that gets parked up for periods giving it chance to carry out corrosion .

trax · Apr 25, 2013

mistericeman said:
Sometimes it can be obviously containing small gritty particles that get trapped between the wiper seals and the surface of the cylinder shredding the edges of the rubber seal on a minute level ...
The process of the small particles also abrade the smooth surface of the cylinder giving the moisture in the brake fluid chance to start rusting the surface .
Compounding factors of worn seals and rust pockets below the level of the cylinder wall can then allow fluid to pass where it shouldn't ...Remember we are talking fairly substantial pressures here and it doesn't take much for the seal to leak ...
Brake fluid is also very good at creeping ...Moisture in the fluid is exacerbated in a system that gets parked up for periods giving it chance to carry out corrosion .

Not trying to argue with you btw, i'm just figuring out your logic

So if the OP strips the cylinder and checks for rusting then he knows what's wrong and should start looking for rusty components. Good tip!

As far as I'm aware you can't really distinguish for minute seal damage or if the part is just crap quality, so err not much to do there. (Still say minute damage is far fetched, esp over the quality of some brands

)

Oldseadog · Apr 25, 2013

mrchurchill109 said:
I'd use and do use Girling red brake grease - petroleum jelly is not really a good idea with brake parts. Petrochemicals and some seal materials are just not a good combination.

ajr

Good point!

Being an old gimmer the brake grease wasn't around in my day!

So yes, use the brake grease on the internal components on assembly!

tom1disco.300 · Apr 25, 2013

well iv put soo many new parts on it,including flexi pipes,and new feed pipe to master cylinder,and cleaned the bottom of the fluid resovour! it was dirty when i put the first lot of cylinders on,and its had about 2 more sets now,so if there was any dirt,there aint now! and she aint a total rust bucket no,so there is no probolem there ither! well i will buy some red brake grease,and some seals,and see how i get on with it! thanks for all your input,much appriciated!

tom1disco.300 · Apr 27, 2013

just ordered some lockheed cylinders for paddock spares,so ill see how i go with them,im not buying the trw ones again,they are too expensive! would anyone give me any tips on bleeding them, iv done this with soo many landys before, and never had as many probolems as iv had with my own,so im just abit lost for ideas now! should i let the fluid drain out fully,and then bleed them,clamp the cylinders closed so no air can get traped in the cylinders? replace the flexi pipes? not too sure anymore,maby use different brake fluid?

and i will be taking the trw cylinders back to the bloke,becuae they have only been on my car for about 3-4 months now!

trax · Apr 27, 2013

tom1disco.300 said:
just ordered some lockheed cylinders for paddock spares,so ill see how i go with them,im not buying the trw ones again,they are too expensive! would anyone give me any tips on bleeding them, iv done this with soo many landys before, and never had as many probolems as iv had with my own,so im just abit lost for ideas now! should i let the fluid drain out fully,and then bleed them,clamp the cylinders closed so no air can get traped in the cylinders? replace the flexi pipes? not too sure anymore,maby use different brake fluid? and i will be taking the trw cylinders back to the bloke,becuae they have only been on my car for about 3-4 months now!

The normal way. I always use an ezi bleed for any car now though.. much easier.

use dot 4 or 5.1

honolulujoe · Apr 27, 2013

i've just ordered some lucas/trw for the s1 from john craddock, i'll let you know how they go

wheel cylinder seal repair kits?

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