What to look for when buying

I'm in the market to buy a RR. I'm looking to spend around £3K and would like one with low(ish) mileage. I'm guessing that means a P38 from around 2000. I own an X350 Jaguar V8 so I'm used to the air suspension so would probably go for one with that still in place. What other things should I be looking for?

Just been skimming the forum and have another question. Whats the difference between Thor and Gem engines (and more specifically reading the codes). I have a fully functioning SDD from JLR which reads codes etc for the Jag, would this work on the P38?

You're thinking along the right lines. Keep a grand back for inevitable repairs. If you hunt around you can find a decent one for £2k and use that grand to get her right. Engine runs well on LPG and that makes running costs comparable to the oil burner but way more refined.

Need Nanocom or similar for diagnostics. As far as I'm aware Mongoose does nothing on the P38.

GEMS was earlier petrol engine which I think used Lucas engine management? Thor used Bosch. The intake on the top is different and there are other minor differences. General opinion seems to be that the Thor has a bit more oomph. Neither are designed to be racers though.

Air suspension niggles are common but can be fixed with the help on here fairly cheaply.
Badly maintained cooling systems will totally stuff the engine. Head gasket failures are 120k miles are common but easy to do yourself.
Headlings will drop but the fix is easy and pretty cheap.
RF receiver should be gen 3 or you'll have battery drain issues, usually accompanied by sync issues and door lock sets burning out.
The petrols tend to be prone to oil leaks. This is part of the anti-corrosion protection system. If you want to get rid of all of them it is usually an engine rebuild from scratch job!
HEVAC blend motors can play up and are a PITA to replace.
There are heater o-rings by the transmission tunnel that go through the bulkhead that are a bit of a sod. There is a mod and a bodgit, of course.
Auto gearbox needs regular fluid and filter changes and all fluids (diffs, transfer box) need regular changes.
In tank fuel pumps fail every 10 years or so and are a bit of a sod to replace.
On later models the twin exhausts force the brake pipe run behind the fuel tank where it is bathed in dirt and trapped moisture and rot to buggery.
Later 4W traction control models seem to have ABS issues more but it more than worth it off-road or in snow.
Petrols seem to suffer from sensor issues with age: crank sensor, MAF sensor and O2 sensors and more importantly only original seem to work properly so can get a bit pricey.

Someone way more knowledgeable will be along soon no doubt. @Saint.V8 may even have done a buyer's guide somewhere on here. He's certainly answered the question enough.

Wow thanks for the quick and comprehensive answer.

Some questions:
After a little look around the 3 gen rf receiver is for the door locks I think. Is this just a straight swap with a used part or are you better off buying new?
Whats the HEVAC blend motor?
Usually do my auto box fluid replace every 50,000 miles is that about the same for the RR? The transfer box on my X type was more often and a right PITA, how that compare?
DCS on the Jag plays up if the ABS sensors and reluctor rings are not 100%, even slightly off and when there's salt on the road it is 'no traction'. Are these easy to get at on the RR?
Are the engine sensors £££'s? A decent crank sensor for the Jag is about £60. I've found JLR parts to not be that bad price wise for old models is that the same for RR's?

Generation 3 received is strictly from somewhere reputable. They're like hen's teeth and cost a bomb. Or fit a £5 remote jog switch and all is good - you just need 2 remotes.

HEVAC blend motor(s) blends the hot and cold air and distributes it where needed.

Autobox needs doing every 24k I think (mine's a manual) and the transfer box is the same. Diff oil I do every 10k even thought the handbook says 96k which is frankly, bonkers. All dead easy to get to and takes very little time.

ABS generally well behaved. Yes, sensors need to be next to the reluctor ring but generally stay put. The later models seem to have more error prone components though. Just my impression. The ECU certainly costs a whole heap more and as for the 4W TC modulator, sit down before looking at that!

Engine sensors: not that expensive as far as I know. I have the oil burner though so it has never been an issue. ;-)

Most parts are available cheap as chips off the Bay or are fairly reasonable OEM. Sometimes JLR are surprisingly reasonable but on things like the RF receiver unit it is a case of tugging your pants down, bending over and gritting your teeth.

Slipped liners are the big fear on the V8. They changed the design on later engines and if you're lucky you'll find a top-hatted one. Someone like @johnnyb70 or @Orangebean would know more about that.

Thanks for your help again.

I'll hope for a Gen 3 receiver then.
HEVAC sounds similar to the heath robinson device in the XJS.
Can you get the tranny/diff oil OEM spec off ebay?
How do you tell the difference on the V8, I'd rather pay a tad more for a right one?

Is there a decent dismanter for RR's (We have EuroJag for Jags)?

NigelJK said:

Thanks for your help again.

I'll hope for a Gen 3 receiver then.
HEVAC sounds similar to the heath robinson device in the XJS.
Can you get the tranny/diff oil OEM spec off ebay?
How do you tell the difference on the V8, I'd rather pay a tad more for a right one?

Is there a decent dismanter for RR's (We have EuroJag for Jags)?

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Diff oil etc, yes, look on the Bay for Smith & Allan up in Newcastle. They deliver 20L drums of oil quite cheap too.

There are so many P38 parts on the Bay it is hard to choose. The forum used to be sponsored by Emmotts of Colne. There's a guy called Charles on the bay who was very good but most decent.

V8 and top hat. Need a guru on that. I assume the engine number but there may be a mark on the block. If the liner has slipped it has a tinking noise. I am hoping one of the gurus will be along shortly!

Grrrrrr said:

Diff oil etc, yes, look on the Bay for Smith & Allan up in Newcastle. They deliver 20L drums of oil quite cheap too.

There are so many P38 parts on the Bay it is hard to choose. The forum used to be sponsored by Emmotts of Colne. There's a guy called Charles on the bay who was very good but most decent.

V8 and top hat. Need a guru on that. I assume the engine number but there may be a mark on the block. If the liner has slipped it has a tinking noise. I am hoping one of the gurus will be along shortly!

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Dont think Mozz would agree with you reference Emmotts

tomcat59alan said:

Dont think Mozz would agree with you reference Emmotts

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Was that for parts or work they did for him?

Grrrrrr said:

Was that for parts or work they did for him?

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Work they did.

tomcat59alan said:

Work they did.

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That's what I thought. Different skill putting stuff back together than yanking it apart and flogging it!

Grrrrrr said:

That's what I thought. Different skill putting stuff back together than yanking it apart and flogging it!

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Fitted a few camshafts and never thought to find out why the same lobe/lifter was wearing out due to lack of oil.

tomcat59alan said:

Fitted a few camshafts and never thought to find out why the same lobe/lifter was wearing out due to lack of oil.

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Ah, yes. Remember that. Killed the car for Mozz in the end which was a real pity. Really felt for him. Think you or Wammers suspected a blocked oil portway? And maybe not lubing the new shaft when fitting?

To get back on track, how does the OP work out which is the best V8 engine to get? How does he know if it has been top-hatted? There seems to be a difference in opinion on how good the Turner blocks are but someone on here knows the ins and outs. I'm just having my usual issue remembering names!

NigelJK said:

Thanks for your help again.

I'll hope for a Gen 3 receiver then.
HEVAC sounds similar to the heath robinson device in the XJS.
Can you get the tranny/diff oil OEM spec off ebay?
How do you tell the difference on the V8, I'd rather pay a tad more for a right one?

Is there a decent dismanter for RR's (We have EuroJag for Jags)?

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They pretty much all suffer from slipped liners and cracked blocks eventually. I had a new engine under warranty on a 2003 Disco V8 when a liner slipped all sorts of faffing at the dealer with hopes of lifter trouble before the inevitable was concluded when they took the sump off and could see the coolant running down. Even the earlier considered 'good ones' (if you can call them that) are on borrowed time once they get up to 100k LPG hastens the process I think due to the hotter temp but in fairness it's only bringing forward the inevitable. The head gasket goes at some point and although doing it seems to put things right and you can still get a decent number of more miles out of it you're on the foothills of block failure it is generally liner issues behind the gasket failure.

Common thing on the transfer box side is the chain stretches and needs replacing although if you don't fancy it there are generally plenty of boxes cheap from scrappers.

In summary it's a car that needs a lot of work and to run if at anything approaching cost-effectiveness you need to do that work yourself and if it's not going to consume every weekend, because you rely on the vehicle, you need a mechanic background or be high level DIY. The list of critical work to prevent catastrophic engine failure or MOT failures is extensive and if you're bothered by niggles like heated seats and drooping headlinings it gets even longer and fiddlier.

I wouldn't want any other vehicle but have to be a realist with what the vehicles like but the upside is there's loads to like that you just will not find done so well on any other vehicle.

I do virtually a full resto on my new acquisitions doing pretty much every known problem including a top hat liner block and to be honest you do not get anything like trouble free motoring even then although you could appear to if you did low-ish miles. I do around 20k it that seems to generate about two major jobs per year roughly. Compared to the Classic, in which I do a good number of miles too, it's a lot more work (if you ignore the corrosion issues which thankfully is one area the P38 is ok on.

In the Jag world we have a chap like Emmots
I'm reasonable on the spanners, but time is my enemy on thing like heads so a P38 may not be the best choice. Also unless I can find a friendly 4 post lift somewhere I'm getting near the point where rolling on the floor should really be left to forum posts. Are the classics a better bet? If I'm going to be spending time mechanically on it I'd not want it wasted if something let go.I'm not afraid of mpg or moonlanding mileage (I've bought a smoking XJS before now and ended up loving the car after doing all the jobs on it). BTW is 'Turner' the same Turner of Daimler V8 250 fame?

Just looked and seen that there may be some confusion on 'Classic'. By Classic I mean the pre-P38 RR's.

The older classic 3.5 engines seem to be more reliable but they suffer from tin worm (the body, not the engine).

I know many P38s running on LPG and never an issue but you must keep the coolant system pristine. The slipped liners either seem to happen to you or don't. @martynv8 was very unlucky with his but others have no issues at all. The GEMS engine from around 1998 seems pretty robust and although people reckon the Thor pulls more I don't think there is that much in it. Head gaskets do go around 120k miles with horrible regularity but spot the symptoms early and you'll be fine with no further issues for another 100k miles or so. Head gaskets is a whole weekend job as the bolts are almost certainly rusted in place.

One major issue a year sounds about right! We all have a backup car!

If you've had enough of spannering then maybe the Green Oval isn't for you. It isn't a case of if you'll be bitten but when.

Thanks for the honest opinion. I had a Rover 3500 for a short in the past and loved that engine, although due to hard usage it went south pretty quickly.

First thing to look for is a well maintained diesel engine under the bonnet.

wammers said:

First thing to look for is a well maintained diesel engine under the bonnet.

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Second thing you'd then be looking at would unfortunately be unrefined and sedate journeys everywhere.

Not a fan of oil burners in general. Although this would be a semi-daily driver my new job is only 20 miles from home so it shouldn't be too much for either variant really. There would be occasional trips to Skye in Scotland (8h+ from Stockport) so long as its well maintained this shouldn't prove to difficult to keep on top of. I'm trying to find a decent replacement for my X-Type 2.5 V6. This had permanent 4x4 which came in useful on several occasions (not just the snow we had this year) so didn't want to choose something 'lesser'. Needs to have load lugger capacity also (did consider an 3.0l X-Type estate but they are quiet fragile too). Also want front screen heater (until I used it on the XJ I thought that as well ). So the RR looks a good fit.