What does 4x4 stand for?

I apologise for asking such a basic question but I've asked everybody I know
who has some knowlege of vehicles and have not received a definitive answer.

Obviously the first 4 means four wheel drive. The question is: what does the
second four denote. To put it an other way: how does a 4x4 differ from any
other four wheel drive vehicle?

Thanks in advance


Roy Sharples.

Roy Sharples composed the following;:
> I apologise for asking such a basic question but I've asked everybody
> I know who has some knowlege of vehicles and have not received a
> definitive answer.
>
> Obviously the first 4 means four wheel drive. The question is: what
> does the second four denote. To put it an other way: how does a 4x4
> differ from any other four wheel drive vehicle?

You have the idea, but slightly wrong. The first four is the number of
wheels on the vehicle, the second is the number of DRIVEN wheels.

So a 4x4 has four wheels in total and all four may be driven.

A 6x4 has six wheels with only four driven wheels. Such as a truck,
maybe.

A 'normal' car could be classed as a 4x2 .. four wheels total, 2 wheels
driven.

A 4x4x4 is a four wheel vehicle with all four wheels driven and all four
wheels can steer as well.

A 4x4 is a four wheel drive vehicle, there is no difference really, only
in the eyes of people who must label and categorise based upon
generalities which they percieve, but which don't always work. In very
general terms 4x4's were mostly 'Landrover' type vehicles, meant to do a
job on the farm or in off-road circumstances.

However, nowadays many 'normal' cars also have 4x4 capabilities more
related to traction, steering, control and safety than for any off-road
purpose. There are also many 4x4 'style' cars that are occasional
off-roaders that are much more suited to the road than having real
off-road capability, but which are also more suitable for farm tracks or
green lanes, maybe, than 'normal' road cars.


--
The Caretaker.

On Sunday, in article <[email protected]>
[email protected] "Roy Sharples" wrote:

> I apologise for asking such a basic question but I've asked everybody I know
> who has some knowlege of vehicles and have not received a definitive answer.
>
> Obviously the first 4 means four wheel drive. The question is: what does the
> second four denote. To put it an other way: how does a 4x4 differ from any
> other four wheel drive vehicle?

4 wheels, all 4 driven. So a conventional vehicle is 4x2. Some trucks
are 6x4, others 6x2. Likewise 8x4 (which I haven't seen lately).
Articulated lorries are different.

--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

Wrought under license granted by Her Majesty's Apostropher Royal AD MMIV

Roy Sharples wrote:

> I apologise for asking such a basic question but I've asked everybody I know
> who has some knowlege of vehicles and have not received a definitive answer.
>
> Obviously the first 4 means four wheel drive. The question is: what does the
> second four denote. To put it an other way: how does a 4x4 differ from any
> other four wheel drive vehicle?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
>
> Roy Sharples.
>
>
4x4 also differentiates it from AWD, FWD, and RWD

FWD and RWD is front and rear wheel drive

AWD is your basic subaru setup, front and rear
diffs and a center diff. all wheels driving. some
models with AWD allow you to lock the center diff,
turning it into a 4x4

4x4 differs from AWD in that the front axle is not
always connected to the transfer case, and does
not have a center differential


--
Ben Jerew AKA PolarPuppy
ASE Certified Master Technician
New Country Lexus of Latham, NY, USA
Amateur Off-Roader 93 YJ 4.0l 3spd

MudPuppy76 wrote:

> Roy Sharples wrote:
>
>> I apologise for asking such a basic question but I've asked everybody I
>> know who has some knowlege of vehicles and have not received a definitive
>> answer.
>>
>> Obviously the first 4 means four wheel drive. The question is: what does
>> the second four denote. To put it an other way: how does a 4x4 differ
>> from any other four wheel drive vehicle?
>>
>> Thanks in advance
>>
>>
>> Roy Sharples.
>>
>>
> 4x4 also differentiates it from AWD, FWD, and RWD
>
> FWD and RWD is front and rear wheel drive
>
> AWD is your basic subaru setup, front and rear
> diffs and a center diff. all wheels driving. some
> models with AWD allow you to lock the center diff,
> turning it into a 4x4
>
> 4x4 differs from AWD in that the front axle is not
> always connected to the transfer case, and does
> not have a center differential
>
>

So a Discovery is not a 4x4? Nor a Range Rover?

I think you've drawn a distinction that doesn't actually exist.

4x4 is simply four road wheels, all of which are driven. There is no
distinction in the drivetrain beyond that.

P.

On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 14:31:56 GMT, "Paul S. Brown"
<[email protected]> wrote:


>So a Discovery is not a 4x4? Nor a Range Rover?
>
>I think you've drawn a distinction that doesn't actually exist.
>
>4x4 is simply four road wheels, all of which are driven. There is no
>distinction in the drivetrain beyond that.
>
>P.


But there is a difference between AWD and 4WD - though I always forget
what it is. The terminology isn't very logical.

--

R
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Rooney wrote:

> On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 14:31:56 GMT, "Paul S. Brown"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>So a Discovery is not a 4x4? Nor a Range Rover?
>>
>>I think you've drawn a distinction that doesn't actually exist.
>>
>>4x4 is simply four road wheels, all of which are driven. There is no
>>distinction in the drivetrain beyond that.
>>
>>P.
>
>
> But there is a difference between AWD and 4WD - though I always forget
> what it is. The terminology isn't very logical.
>

If I were going to draw that line I'd say that AWD are vehicles with all
wheels driven which are intended entirely for metalled road use, whereas
4x4 is intended for some offroad duty.

I wouldn't try and actually set a distinction on the drivetrain as there
will be enough exceptions to any rule you come up with to render the rule
invalid.

P.

On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 14:31:56 GMT, Paul S. Brown wrote:

>> 4x4 also differentiates it from AWD, FWD, and RWD
>>
>> FWD and RWD is front and rear wheel drive
>>
>> AWD is your basic subaru setup, front and rear
>> diffs and a center diff. all wheels driving. some
>> models with AWD allow you to lock the center diff,
>> turning it into a 4x4
>>
>> 4x4 differs from AWD in that the front axle is not
>> always connected to the transfer case, and does
>> not have a center differential
>
> So a Discovery is not a 4x4? Nor a Range Rover?
>
> I think you've drawn a distinction that doesn't actually exist.

More likely something being lost in the translation between American
English and British English. Mudpuppy76 is in the US of A...

I suspect he is trying to make the distinction between vehicles with
permenant 4 heel drive (Subarus, Discovery's etc) and those where you
can select between 4WD and RWD.

I find his last paragraph mildly amusing, a front axle with no diff?

> 4x4 is simply four road wheels, all of which are driven. There is no
> distinction in the drivetrain beyond that.

I'd agree with that.

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

Dave Liquorice wrote:

> On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 14:31:56 GMT, Paul S. Brown wrote:
>
>
>>>4x4 also differentiates it from AWD, FWD, and RWD
>>>
>>>FWD and RWD is front and rear wheel drive
>>>
>>>AWD is your basic subaru setup, front and rear
>>>diffs and a center diff. all wheels driving. some
>>>models with AWD allow you to lock the center diff,
>>>turning it into a 4x4
>>>
>>>4x4 differs from AWD in that the front axle is not
>>>always connected to the transfer case, and does
>>>not have a center differential
>>
>>So a Discovery is not a 4x4? Nor a Range Rover?
>>
>>I think you've drawn a distinction that doesn't actually exist.
>
>
> More likely something being lost in the translation between American
> English and British English. Mudpuppy76 is in the US of A...
>
> I suspect he is trying to make the distinction between vehicles with
> permenant 4 heel drive (Subarus, Discovery's etc) and those where you
> can select between 4WD and RWD.
>
> I find his last paragraph mildly amusing, a front axle with no diff?
>
>
>>4x4 is simply four road wheels, all of which are driven. There is no
>>distinction in the drivetrain beyond that.
>
>
> I'd agree with that.
>
no no no, the front axle definitely has a
differential. i was noting that a 4x4 has a
transfer case and not a center differential. an
AWD would have 3 diffs in all.

--
Ben Jerew AKA PolarPuppy
ASE Certified Master Technician
New Country Lexus of Latham, NY, USA
Amateur Off-Roader 93 YJ 4.0l 3spd

Dave Liquorice wrote:

> On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 14:31:56 GMT, Paul S. Brown wrote:
>
>
>>>4x4 also differentiates it from AWD, FWD, and RWD
>>>
>>>FWD and RWD is front and rear wheel drive
>>>
>>>AWD is your basic subaru setup, front and rear
>>>diffs and a center diff. all wheels driving. some
>>>models with AWD allow you to lock the center diff,
>>>turning it into a 4x4
>>>
>>>4x4 differs from AWD in that the front axle is not
>>>always connected to the transfer case, and does
>>>not have a center differential
>>
>>So a Discovery is not a 4x4? Nor a Range Rover?
>>
>>I think you've drawn a distinction that doesn't actually exist.
>
>
> More likely something being lost in the translation between American
> English and British English. Mudpuppy76 is in the US of A...
>
> I suspect he is trying to make the distinction between vehicles with
> permenant 4 heel drive (Subarus, Discovery's etc) and those where you
> can select between 4WD and RWD.
>
> I find his last paragraph mildly amusing, a front axle with no diff?

yeah, you're right, i worded that sentence kinda
strangely didn't i?
>
>>4x4 is simply four road wheels, all of which are driven. There is no
>>distinction in the drivetrain beyond that.
>
>
> I'd agree with that.
>


--
Ben Jerew AKA PolarPuppy
ASE Certified Master Technician
New Country Lexus of Latham, NY, USA
Amateur Off-Roader 93 YJ 4.0l 3spd

MudPuppy76 wrote:

[SNIP]
>>>4x4 is simply four road wheels, all of which are driven. There is no
>>>distinction in the drivetrain beyond that.
>>
>>
>> I'd agree with that.
>>
> no no no, the front axle definitely has a
> differential. i was noting that a 4x4 has a
> transfer case and not a center differential. an
> AWD would have 3 diffs in all.
>

Which makes all Discoveries, Range Rovers, Freelanders and the likes AWD
which is a bit of a change in branding from "The best 4x4xFar"

I think you are probably trying to draw a distinction which only exists in
marketers minds.

At the end of the day, AWD is All Wheels Driven. 4x4 is Four wheels, all of
which are driven.

If you want to push a point, AWD is actually a trademark of a now defunct
company in the UK who took over Bedford's truck manufacturing business in
the 1980s. The brand name was intended to refer to their incarnation of the
Bedford TM which was a 4x4 10 ton utility truck, but they didn't get the
military contract they'd been hoping for and as a result actually sold
rather more TL series which was a 4x2.

P.

On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 19:31:57 GMT, "Paul S. Brown"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>MudPuppy76 wrote:
>
>[SNIP]
>>>>4x4 is simply four road wheels, all of which are driven. There is no
>>>>distinction in the drivetrain beyond that.
>>>
>>>
>>> I'd agree with that.
>>>
>> no no no, the front axle definitely has a
>> differential. i was noting that a 4x4 has a
>> transfer case and not a center differential. an
>> AWD would have 3 diffs in all.
>>
>
>Which makes all Discoveries, Range Rovers, Freelanders and the likes AWD
>which is a bit of a change in branding from "The best 4x4xFar"
>
>I think you are probably trying to draw a distinction which only exists in
>marketers minds.
>
>At the end of the day, AWD is All Wheels Driven. 4x4 is Four wheels, all of
>which are driven.
>
>If you want to push a point, AWD is actually a trademark of a now defunct
>company in the UK who took over Bedford's truck manufacturing business in
>the 1980s. The brand name was intended to refer to their incarnation of the
>Bedford TM which was a 4x4 10 ton utility truck, but they didn't get the
>military contract they'd been hoping for and as a result actually sold
>rather more TL series which was a 4x2.
>
>P.


Having looked at dozens of websites over the last hour or so, I have
discovered that AWD means different things to different people. There
are lots of explanations about the distinction between AWD and 4WD,
and they are all different!

I can now happily conclude that my own common sense was right all
along - ie, if an AWD vehicle has four wheels then it must be 4WD.
There is no justification for limiting the term 4WD to those vehicles
with selectable 4WD, or selectable low ratio, etc.

Paul must surely be correct.

--

R
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Rooney wrote:

> On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 19:31:57 GMT, "Paul S. Brown"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>MudPuppy76 wrote:
>>
>>[SNIP]
>>
>>>>>4x4 is simply four road wheels, all of which are driven. There is no
>>>>>distinction in the drivetrain beyond that.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I'd agree with that.
>>>>
>>>
>>>no no no, the front axle definitely has a
>>>differential. i was noting that a 4x4 has a
>>>transfer case and not a center differential. an
>>>AWD would have 3 diffs in all.
>>>
>>
>>Which makes all Discoveries, Range Rovers, Freelanders and the likes AWD
>>which is a bit of a change in branding from "The best 4x4xFar"
>>
>>I think you are probably trying to draw a distinction which only exists in
>>marketers minds.
>>
>>At the end of the day, AWD is All Wheels Driven. 4x4 is Four wheels, all of
>>which are driven.
>>
>>If you want to push a point, AWD is actually a trademark of a now defunct
>>company in the UK who took over Bedford's truck manufacturing business in
>>the 1980s. The brand name was intended to refer to their incarnation of the
>>Bedford TM which was a 4x4 10 ton utility truck, but they didn't get the
>>military contract they'd been hoping for and as a result actually sold
>>rather more TL series which was a 4x2.
>>
>>P.
>
>
>
> Having looked at dozens of websites over the last hour or so, I have
> discovered that AWD means different things to different people. There
> are lots of explanations about the distinction between AWD and 4WD,
> and they are all different!
>
> I can now happily conclude that my own common sense was right all
> along - ie, if an AWD vehicle has four wheels then it must be 4WD.
> There is no justification for limiting the term 4WD to those vehicles
> with selectable 4WD, or selectable low ratio, etc.
>
> Paul must surely be correct.
>
maybe i was making too broad a generalization in
the naming. an RX300 tag says AWD (All Wheel
Drive), which mechanically speaking has front,
rear, and center differentials. my Wrangler tag
says 4x4, which mechanically has front and rear
differentials and a transfer case.

i thought that was actually the way that the
different systems were identified, perhaps that
isn't the case with all manufacturers? in actual
use and marketing, i guess it doesn't make all
that bit of difference to the customer.

--
Ben Jerew AKA PolarPuppy
ASE Certified Master Technician
New Country Lexus of Latham, NY, USA
Amateur Off-Roader 93 YJ 4.0l 3spd

On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 20:30:24 GMT, "MudPuppy76
<\"<moc.rr.pacyn\"@\"pupralop\">" <--SDRAWKCAB> wrote:


>maybe i was making too broad a generalization in
>the naming. an RX300 tag says AWD (All Wheel
>Drive), which mechanically speaking has front,
>rear, and center differentials. my Wrangler tag
>says 4x4, which mechanically has front and rear
>differentials and a transfer case.
>
>i thought that was actually the way that the
>different systems were identified, perhaps that
>isn't the case with all manufacturers? in actual
>use and marketing, i guess it doesn't make all
>that bit of difference to the customer.


It looks to me as though advances in technology have blurred whatever
distinction there once was. I agree - it makes no difference to the
buyer. No doubt someone will do a bit of market research into which
label is preferred by which set of people!

--

R
o
o
n
e
y

Rooney ([email protected]) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

> But there is a difference between AWD and 4WD - though I always forget
> what it is. The terminology isn't very logical.

The only difference between "AWD" and "4x4" is that "AWD" includes 6x6 and
8x8.

On 10 Jan 2005 13:13:24 GMT, Adrian <[email protected]> wrote:

>Rooney ([email protected]) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
>saying :
>
>> But there is a difference between AWD and 4WD - though I always forget
>> what it is. The terminology isn't very logical.
>
>The only difference between "AWD" and "4x4" is that "AWD" includes 6x6 and
>8x8.


I'll go along with that.

--

R
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o
n
e
y

In message <[email protected]>, Paul S. Brown
<[email protected]> writes
>Rooney wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 14:31:56 GMT, "Paul S. Brown"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>So a Discovery is not a 4x4? Nor a Range Rover?
>>>
>>>I think you've drawn a distinction that doesn't actually exist.
>>>
>>>4x4 is simply four road wheels, all of which are driven. There is no
>>>distinction in the drivetrain beyond that.
>>>
>>>P.
>>
>>
>> But there is a difference between AWD and 4WD - though I always forget
>> what it is. The terminology isn't very logical.
>>
>
>If I were going to draw that line I'd say that AWD are vehicles with all
>wheels driven which are intended entirely for metalled road use, whereas
>4x4 is intended for some offroad duty.
>

Hmm. I'd say the exact opposite. A military Scammell for example has all
6 wheels permanently driven regardless of what the other 5 happen to be
doing a the time. If you drive it on a tarmac road you have to bump it
up the kerb or take it on grass every 15 miles to unwind the
transmission. A 4x4 without centre locking diff or viscous coupling can
easily be reduced to only one wheel driving in mud or on wet grass.
Locking the centre diff guarantees at least two wheels will be driving
Locking front and rear axle diffs gives you all 4 wheels driving. Take
it on tarmac in that configuration and not only will you not be able to
turn the steering wheel even with power steering, you'll wreck your
transmission within a few miles - guaranteed.
>I wouldn't try and actually set a distinction on the drivetrain as there
>will be enough exceptions to any rule you come up with to render the rule
>invalid.
>
>P.
And you would never get it universally adopted in any case.
--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting

"hugh" <hugh@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> A 4x4 without centre locking diff or viscous coupling can
> easily be reduced to only one wheel driving in mud or on wet grass.

Didn't the Caravan Club find that with a Honda CRV "4x4" some time ago? It
had difficulty pulling a van across wet grass!

Budgie

hugh (hugh@[127.0.0.1]) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

> A 4x4 without centre locking diff or viscous coupling can easily be
> reduced to only one wheel driving in mud or on wet grass.
> Locking the centre diff guarantees at least two wheels will be driving

Not necessarily.

If neither end has a locked diff, then even with a locked centre diff, you
can be sat there with one wheel each end spinning freely.

The only difference is that without the centre diff locked, you've only got
the one wheel spinning uselessly...

Hell, with front and rear diff locks engaged, it's entirely possible to be
sat there with all four wheels spinning in brown windsor soup...

Adrian composed the following;:
> hugh (hugh@[127.0.0.1]) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
> saying :
>
>> A 4x4 without centre locking diff or viscous coupling can easily be
>> reduced to only one wheel driving in mud or on wet grass.
>> Locking the centre diff guarantees at least two wheels will be
>> driving
>
> Not necessarily.
>
> If neither end has a locked diff, then even with a locked centre
> diff, you can be sat there with one wheel each end spinning freely.
>
> The only difference is that without the centre diff locked, you've
> only got the one wheel spinning uselessly...
>
> Hell, with front and rear diff locks engaged, it's entirely possible
> to be sat there with all four wheels spinning in brown windsor soup...

Like this one.
http://groups.msn.com/LosiPaulsPictures/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=118

It took another Discovery and a Series Landrover in tandem to pull this
one out, and about an hour.

http://groups.msn.com/LosiPaulsPictures/shoebox.msnw?Page=3

--
The Caretaker.