what a day!

Well went to matchams pay and play today. Was having a great day! Managed everything there and was really pleased how the old defender was going.

That was until I went down a purpose dug out hole! I done some depth checking 1st with a big pole and it was quite shallow. So I thought I'd have ago and I got in and my front wheels buried themselves! So we called the marshals out to give us a hand as they said thats what their for and seeing as either my diff or half shaft had broke on trying to get out, so only had rear wheel drive and we wasn't going anywhere.

Thinking a marshal with a good off road vehicle with winch would come to my rescue or at least something that would be capabal of the job. Well I was stunned when a bog standard Nissan patrol arrived on crap road tyres and didn't even have a tow bar! :jaw: I said that's a waste of time but he reckoned And I quote "that has pulled everything out and do it easy, its never got stuck before"! I said what ever and let him carry on! Turned out he had to use his strap as mine thats a 12ton with huge d links wasnt as good as his 5ton jobby he had! which he put on my tow eye and onto his.

I jumped in and started going to only find the bloke was about to do a snatch manouver with a normal bloody strap! Before I could shout he steamed off ripping my tow eye Off my chassis and ripping a rather large hole in my nice non rottern chassis! The strap, d link and my tow eye then went straight through his back window! Then another marshal came who was quite helpful but his winch was tiny! all that did was bend his little hook right back and fly off! he was lucky it didn't go through his windscreen! Anyway an hour later they pipe up about there tractor, why it wasn't metioned earlier i dont know! so we got that which was about 100 years old and had to tie it to a disco to hold the front end down!

It don't look that stuck in the picture but believe me it was! Pure sludge!

Sorry MODS if its in wrong place :hug:

farken geezuz, what a bunch of muppets

They was! One was OK but the marshal in the orange didn't even know it was a defender I don't think! He was clueless! You would think proper equipment and marshal that know what they was doing would be there! Instead I got a teared chassis! Was not happy!

I help out at an off road site and have done more recoveries of very stuck or rolled 4x4 's than most people do, I have a well spec'd 90 with a front and rear winch I have always managed to get them unstuck,

As for your towing eye? Post a picture of it and where it was installed,
I have seen tow points pulled off rotten cars and I've seen them pulled off if they aren't correctly fixed or not the correct type ie lash down point.

I went to ellerton banks 4x4 at the beginning of jan and they don't offer recovery, at all,

Parkwood will recover you but they can charge and most (not all) don't have a clue and spend more time worrying about there flashing lights than getting things moving again.

Well I got a tow bar that's bloody strong for pulling out. these little tow eyes were underneath on each side. I always assumed they were standard. Had 12mm bolts going through them which is what had ripped through my chassis with the huge run up he took to yank it! My chassis is solid! Well is is there anyway lol but them towing eyes he hooked onto are only meant for road or light pulling.

This one of the reasons I stay away from pay and play.

Too many fecking edjits that think cause they have a hi vis jacket/top and a winch that they ken what they're doing.

mlucas110 said:

Well I got a tow bar that's bloody strong for pulling out. these little tow eyes were underneath on each side. I always assumed they were standard. Had 12mm bolts going through them which is what had ripped through my chassis with the huge run up he took to yank it! My chassis is solid! Well is is there anyway lol but them towing eyes he hooked onto are only meant for road or light pulling.

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They are tie down point not recovery point that's why they have pulled through, admittedly he should have know and you to, where you pulling forwards or backwards? If backwards why dint you use the tow bar?

You can replace the eyes with jate rings for recovery as used by the army and many other people.

bigvinnie said:

This one of the reasons I stay away from pay and play.

Too many fecking edjits that think cause they have a hi vis jacket/top and a winch that they ken what they're doing.

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There's some idiots but also some very knowledgable people with years of experience, the easy way is to go with your own group and make sure you have the equipment and knowledge to use it safely to recover your self or friend.

warrior said:

They are tie down point not recovery point that's why they have pulled through, admittedly he should have know and you to, where you pulling forwards or backwards? If backwards why dint you use the tow bar?

You can replace the eyes with jate rings for recovery as used by the army and many other people.


There's some idiots but also some very knowledgable people with years of experience, the easy way is to go with your own group and make sure you have the equipment and knowledge to use it safely to recover your self or friend.

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Warrior, I've met some very friendly and helpful people but I cant be doing with the people their egos their his vis-jacket and their winch's. Its like all walks of life you always have the idiots!

Some of them seem to think their the gestapo, anybody can use a winch, but its having the knowledge to understand how to recover a vehicle the stress and loads being applied. There is equations for this.(its my job in the army so I take offence when some fat guy in a jacket tells me "he knows best") I don't like seeing people having their possession's damaged by un experienced marshals.

mlucs as warrior says fit some jate-rings and always use them in pairs. They can take some abuse and don't damage your chassis!

post up a pic of the damage, we all like a bit of gore

I was pulling from the tow bar With someone else before the marshals came but his was only rear wheel drive to and i always have used the tow bar! I know these ****y rings are no good for recovery! You only need to look at them to see that! I assumed he was going to jus loop it on the tow bar like we were doing but he obviously saw them under the motor! I did not mention that I thought these were OK to yank at any point! Yes they would be fine to tie as you say and pull down the road or a light track but not for pulling me out a hole! Especially when I have a bloody good towbar! So back to my point what was HE thinking! Last time I expect them to know what they are doing! I'll check were there connected in future and I have a tow bar on the front for recovery aswell

oops i better order me a set of jate rings then, ive been using those eyes for recovery too

Lol ill get a pic Tomorrow hopefully

bigvinnie said:

Warrior, I've met some very friendly and helpful people but I cant be doing with the people their egos their his vis-jacket and their winch's. Its like all walks of life you always have the idiots!

Some of them seem to think their the gestapo, anybody can use a winch, but its having the knowledge to understand how to recover a vehicle the stress and loads being applied. There is equations for this.(its my job in the army so I take offence when some fat guy in a jacket tells me "he knows best") I don't like seeing people having their possession's damaged by un experienced marshals.

mlucs as warrior says fit some jate-rings and always use them in pairs. They can take some abuse and don't damage your chassis!

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I get where you coming from, if its what you do fir a living then you will understand all about it, I have refused help from a marshal that thought he knew it all with the flashing lights on.

I have been told off my a marshal for using a kinetic rope, he said there dangerous, yes they are if not used correctly was my reply

Another way to avoid this and its good practice, attach a tow rope / strap on the front and rear befor you get stuck so you don't have to go wading or fishing.

warrior said:

Another way to avoid this and its good practice, attach a tow rope / strap on the front and rear befor you get stuck so you don't have to go wading or fishing.

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I always wonder why people hardly do this, I thought of it on my very first outing! Lol
suppose some ppl like getting wet n muddh ay

i always connect front and back ropes but in this case i only had 1 as my mate borrowed other one which i took of the front to pull it out backwards. but that also was not the problem i was bringing up. As he removed my strap as he thought his was better for some reason. The point i was making was of the palaver it they caused and the yank he gave me without telling me or asking because he thought he knew best.

Im not by any means saying all marshals are crap as im sure alot are good, obviously you are!

One of the guys that helped me second was good, just was not gave the right equipment by his employer.

Its the fact that the marshal that came 1st was a turd and just did what he thought was best and without asking me 1st was silly. He didnt care about his wreck of a vehicle that was just a "recovery vehicle" and had no respect for mine either.

Having marshals thinking they are gods of off roading, know everything, and dont let you get a word in edge ways, in standard nissan patrols with no decent tyres or even a tow bar is stupid!

I wont let anyone do a recovery if im not happy with them, the gear, the recovery points and technique. Have taken stuff off and said "its alright, my mates coming over to tow us" etc when not happy. Some people dont understand physics.

goonarmy said:

Some people dont understand physics.

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Some people? Most people iv found!

I doubt you'll like this reply ...

Has to be said, I agree the marshall was a numpty, but you must also take a shed-load of blame.

Your vehicle, you know what's what with it and it's up to you to make sure any recovery point used is sound and workable. I don't care how gobby the marshall was, if he has a strop and is looking to do a snatch then you get out and stop the 'recovery' to at least make sure it is a Kerrs strop. In fact you should have both discussed what you were doing and what should happen during the recovery, before even starting it .. I don't care if he was gobby (as said) YOUR vehicle YOUR decision on how and where to attach recovery strops, you should have been gobbier .. He has a Nissan, you have a Landrover, YOU'RE the one who knows where to recover from on YOUR vehicle.

Ultimately, I reckon it's mostly your fault ..

Actually, even you call the tie-down ring a 'tow-eye' so I guess it's all your fault .. It's all over LZ what they are, why you don't use them and before venturing offroad and getting stuck you make sure you have good, PROPER, recovery points, and have a clue how to use them .. without just saying "I said what ever and let him carry on!" ...

Harsh lesson learned, but the chassis can be patched. I'd suggest NOT fixing a tie-down or Jate rings back in, at least not in the same place .. if it's been patched it's not likely to be as strong as original.

a tow eye is a tow eye not a recovery point. what i call it has naff all to do with it. people have different names for a lot of stuff! yes i should have checked were he put it but he is supposed to do it all the time or am i getting that wrong? he sure said he did! and i know that doesnt mean his gunna do it right but jesus you cant get sh!tty with everyone that trys to help you! I never lost my temper once and we was all polite and he apologised as he saw it as his fault!

Getting mouthy with someone may be your style but not for me. Next times he offersi will now say no and ask for the other guy that was quite good who, LIKE ME used my tow bar not my other TIE DOWN point < (see what i did)

Yes he thought he new everything and yes i should have checked where he clamped it but at the end of the day, we talked about what we needed to try 1st but when we got in our vehicles he did that stupid thing. Now i cannot read minds, so was pretty helpess

We could go on about hindsight all the time but i expected (first mistake i know) him to go on onto my tow bar like we was doing when he turned up. He said jump in ill hook you up and pull you out. Once again i assumed his straps were for insurance purposes or something. I think your find alot of people would put a bit of trust in a marshal to know what he was doing unless like youselves, obviously go to pay n plays alot . ALSO He tensioned the strap like he was gunna just pull, like we had all discussed, thats what we needed to try. NOT sling it in reverse and then back! What would you suggest i do in future? jump out with my doors up against a bank, risking further damage and me getting trapped between the 2?

Think we will have to agree to disagree as im not telepathic

YES certain bits were my fault like checking stuff i admit but mainly my fault? totally dissagree!
Me checking is hindsight and ill never trust any "professional" again! him doing a stupid un-discussed manovour was completly unpredictable apart from in his head and very dangerous!