What 4X4 for towing a horse box.....

Turboman · Nov 27, 2014

Murtle said:
On paper that sounds perfectly reasonable, but why does an empty transit van tow a car transporter trailer in a far more stable manner than the same loaded trailer on a SWB landy. This is exactly the thing I have experienced, the transit was lighter too?

Probably because you didn't get the weight distribution quite right when you were towing with the SWB, my guess would be too little noseweight, that can be almost undriveable. Too much handles ok, just heavy on the tow vehicle, and juicy.

Other factors could be tyre type or pressures on the tow vehicle, often people don't pump up the back tyres enough, tyre pressures on the trailer, or uneven side to side loading.

There is no reason a SWB cannot be set up to give a perfectly safe, predictable and pleasant tow. Either of the trailers in the pics are totally relaxed to drive, comfortable with one hand on the wheel, although I don't do this in practice.

Murtle · Nov 27, 2014

Datatek said:
Tow hitch on my Transit is also pretty close to the rear axle, but a longer wheel base will also help and maybe your Transit is FWD.
I can tell you from experience that my RWD Transit 330 is quite a handfull with a P38 on a trailer

The Transit is FWD, does that help then? I know I dread it when ever I've got to tow with the little Landy, Discovery is fine though.

Murtle · Nov 27, 2014

Turboman said:
Probably because you didn't get the weight distribution quite right when you were towing with the SWB, my guess would be too little noseweight, that can be almost undriveable. Too much handles ok, just heavy on the tow vehicle, and juicy.

Other factors could be tyre type or pressures on the tow vehicle, often people don't pump up the back tyres enough, tyre pressures on the trailer, or uneven side to side loading.

There is no reason a SWB cannot be set up to give a perfectly safe, predictable and pleasant tow. Either of the trailers in the pics are totally relaxed to drive, comfortable with one hand on the wheel, although I don't do this in practice.

The only way to feel like there is any control in the little Landy is to completely overload the nose weight of the trailer. An empty 5 berth caravan is a nightmare, yet unnoticeable on the Transit?

Turboman · Nov 27, 2014

Murtle said:
On paper that sounds perfectly reasonable, but why does an empty transit van tow a car transporter trailer in a far more stable manner than the same loaded trailer on a SWB landy. This is exactly the thing I have experienced, the transit was lighter too?

Forgot! I have towed with a Transit, and they aren't bad on the open road, my main objection to doing this would be fear of being mistaken for a gypsy!

But the Tranny really wont do you any favours when it comes to delivering an animal on the other side of a steep slippery field

Murtle · Nov 27, 2014

I'm not saying the little Landy is bad by any means, but I only trust is with trailers shorter than it is. Interestingly, I'm usually towing tractors about the place so if I got stuck I already have the ultimate recovery vehicle to hand

The only way to make it stable

Turboman · Nov 27, 2014

Murtle said:
The only way to feel like there is any control in the little Landy is to completely overload the nose weight of the trailer. An empty 5 berth caravan is a nightmare, yet unnoticeable on the Transit?

There is definitely something going wrong if you are using excessive noseweight, manufacturors spec. should be fine. Are you pumping the rear tyres up to 40psi? And do you have standard size AT tyres?, big wobbly mud tyres are no good at all for towing.

I cant really say anything about caravans, I have never towed one. Most seem to be single axle, which I hate, my Ifors are alwys double axle. I would guess the weight distribution inside may not be very good either.

Turboman · Nov 27, 2014

Murtle said:
I'm not saying the little Landy is bad by any means, but I only trust is with trailers shorter than it is. Interestingly, I'm usually towing tractors about the place so if I got stuck I already have the ultimate recovery vehicle to hand

The only way to make it stable

Standard wheels and tyres, and a drop plate to lower the towball down a bit, and you will be sorted!

Nice tractor!

Is that a Field Marshall?

Murtle · Nov 27, 2014

It's only running 235-85-16 not overly aggressive Toyo Open country tires, already have a drop plate and adjustable dixonbate tow assembly.

And yes that is a new toy of mine, a 1946 Series 1 Field Masrshall

I'll take your silage haling picture and up you one

Note extra bonnet ballast!

For field use only you understand!!!

Turboman · Nov 27, 2014

Murtle said:
It's only running 235-85-16 not overly aggressive Toyo Open country tires, already have a drop plate and adjustable dixonbate tow assembly.

And yes that is a new toy of mine, a 1946 Series 1 Field Masrshall

I'll take your silage haling picture and up you one Note extra bonnet ballast!

For field use only you understand!!!

Its not so much the treads, but the section of those is huge compared to the 6x16s the designer intended it to tow with. It would tow much better with the standard tyres. As it happens the tyres on my 90 on the black wheels in the pics are Open Countries, 205,85 r16, standard for a 90.

Nice pic of some trad small bale action.

We mainly do big rounds, I can get 12 big round hay stood on end on that trailer, or six big round silage, but that is towing it with my Massey.

If you are into old tractors, you might like to have a look at this,

Classic rally (pic heavy!)

Murtle · Nov 27, 2014

Nice post with the engine rally, myself and some mates go to a lot of these, between us we have 5 Field Marshals, an 8 Ton Aveling steam roller and an Allchin all purpose steam engine.

Perhaps it is the tires causing the issue, all the Landys I've driven including 90's have had this size fitted. Can't remember whats on the Disco, but it's the original alloys.

Turboman · Nov 27, 2014

Murtle said:
Nice post with the engine rally, myself and some mates go to a lot of these, between us we have 5 Field Marshals, an 8 Ton Aveling steam roller and an Allchin all purpose steam engine.

Perhaps it is the tires causing the issue, all the Landys I've driven including 90's have had this size fitted. Can't remember whats on the Disco, but it's the original alloys.

I would love a proper steam engine myself

, but they are quite expensive now, and my sheds are pretty full of all my other old stuff

I love rallies, give us a shout if thre is anything good round you, I will try and come up, might be able to fit it in on he way somewhere, we are always up and down.
If you know someone with series wheels and standard tyres, try swapping them over and see how it tows. 40 psi in the rear for towing. I think you will be amazed at the difference. It will lower your vehicle a little bit, too, so you might not need to adjust towball. It is worth getting a large spring balance to check noseweight, I would guess about 30-40kgs for that, but it should say in the trailer handbook.

Turboman · Nov 27, 2014

Murtle said:
Nice post with the engine rally, myself and some mates go to a lot of these, between us we have 5 Field Marshals, an 8 Ton Aveling steam roller and an Allchin all purpose steam engine.

Perhaps it is the tires causing the issue, all the Landys I've driven including 90's have had this size fitted. Can't remember whats on the Disco, but it's the original alloys.

Thinking about your issue, something else came to me.

When you are towing, all the load goes into the rear springs when you are pulling away. Your motor is quite old, and looking at the pics you aren't treating the rear springs gently!

If they, or their mounts are very tired, it could account for some of your handling issue.

I used to use my series to tow an 14 foot Ifor, older version of the flatbed I posted, and it was fine to drive even with 2.5 tonnes of farm machinery on, but a bit slow. I don't think series are actually rated to tow 3.5 tonne any more though.

MJI · Nov 27, 2014

Turboman said:
You are absolutely right, I was just thinking of mentioning that.

Purpose built tow vehicles, like agricultural tractors and Scammell recovery trucks have the tow point almost on the line of the back axle.

Many Jap 4wd, on the other hand, have the tow ball three or four feet behind the axle, one of the reasons I would not use them.

I have towed with a few cars, the weirdest a souped up Sunbeam hatch, impossible to reverse a trailer due to the short overhang but forest suspension helped for stability.

Towed a caravan for years with big Vauxhalls, long overhang but extremely stable tow cars, especially with V6 and air shocks.

MJI · Nov 27, 2014

I like old tractors, the Field Marshalls are very interesting, a huge 2 stroke single!

td5nut · Nov 27, 2014

MJI said:
I like old tractors, the Field Marshalls are very interesting, a huge 2 stroke single!

are they started with a cartridge ??

Murtle · Nov 28, 2014

4.9L, single cylinder, 2 stroke Diesel, around 40HP.
They can be started with a 12 gauge cartridge, or as most do, just with the handle, you also need a starting paper as a sort of glow plug when you first start it. The starting paper is a piece of absorbent paper impregnated with Sodium Nitrate, it sparkles when burnt. This paper is put into a holder that's screwed directly into the cylinder head before you start winding the handle or hitting the cartridge.

Murtle · Nov 28, 2014

Turboman said:
Thinking about your issue, something else came to me.

When you are towing, all the load goes into the rear springs when you are pulling away. Your motor is quite old, and looking at the pics you aren't treating the rear springs gently!

If they, or their mounts are very tired, it could account for some of your handling issue.

I used to use my series to tow an 14 foot Ifor, older version of the flatbed I posted, and it was fine to drive even with 2.5 tonnes of farm machinery on, but a bit slow. I don't think series are actually rated to tow 3.5 tonne any more though.

Rear end is all new, made little difference to towing, so I'm thinking tires as you mentioned earlier, plus they are always set to around 28psi. Soft in comparison to what your recommending.

Also the 88" S3 is plated for 4000Kg trailer weight, I realise that 3500kg is the UK max, but 3500kg is legal on an 88" S3. Max train weight is 6120Kg, max vehicle weight is 2120Kg

Turboman · Nov 28, 2014

MJI said:
I have towed with a few cars, the weirdest a souped up Sunbeam hatch, impossible to reverse a trailer due to the short overhang but forest suspension helped for stability.

Towed a caravan for years with big Vauxhalls, long overhang but extremely stable tow cars, especially with V6 and air shocks.

I have towed with a few as well, I think the best was a Saab 9000, but they were only titchy little 500kg trailers.

The only trailers I have now are 3500kg so well out of the towing capacity of all except large 4wd and a few vans.

Turboman · Nov 28, 2014

Murtle said:
Rear end is all new, made little difference to towing, so I'm thinking tires as you mentioned earlier, plus they are always set to around 28psi. Soft in comparison to what your recommending.

Also the 88" S3 is plated for 4000Kg trailer weight, I realise that 3500kg is the UK max, but 3500kg is legal on an 88" S3. Max train weight is 6120Kg, max vehicle weight is 2120Kg

40psi rears,28 fronts for towing. You will notice the difference.

The 4000kg on the plate will be for independently braked trailers, over-run brakes will be 3500kg.

I agree entirely, when I used to tow regularly with series back in the eighties, they were all plated for 3500kg, and we often did this, no issues.

Recently looking in the guides to spec of all the different models in the back of LRO, I notice all series are now quoted as towing two tonnes max.

I didn't understand that myself.

Datatek · Nov 28, 2014

Murtle said:
The Transit is FWD, does that help then? I know I dread it when ever I've got to tow with the little Landy, Discovery is fine though.

I know not why, but FWD does seem to help.

What 4X4 for towing a horse box.....

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