What 4wd diesel-estate-auto?

Hello,

I'm looking to buy a 4wd diesel-estate-auto with a decent DVD navigation
system that covers all of Europe and a variable speed-limiter (as fitted to
Mercedes and Renaults - not the same as cruise control). I don't want
cumbersome SUV type cars - I've no need of deep mud or offroad ability - I
just want low centre of gravity and decent motorway handling with ability to
cope with snow in mountains as I work in Alps during winter.

The obvious contenders are Audi A4 quattro, BMW 3 series X, Mercedes C-Class
4matic.

Audi suffers from lack of driver legroom for a tall bloke like me because of
its front wheel drive roots.
Mercedes has the required features and ample legroom but suffers from poor
build quality and reliability (I am current C-Class owner so don't argue!)
BMW still has 1980s one-CD-per-country navigation which is totally useless
to me and no variable speed control (against BMW principles I suppose).

Are there any other contenders on the market? Ideally I'd like something
reliably Japanese like Toyota or Honda with cutting edge navigation, but
they don't seem to offer a decent diesel range.

Ric ([email protected]) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying
:

> BMW still has 1980s one-CD-per-country navigation which is totally
> useless to me and no variable speed control (against BMW principles I
> suppose).

What about *not* getting the standard fit nav and putting a retro-fit in
that does do that (and saving a big chunk, I presume)?

I don't know about the variable limiter, but I know the OBC on mid-90s 3s
included a variable overspeed warning - is that not enough?

Adrian wrote:
> Ric ([email protected]) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
> saying
>>
>
>> BMW still has 1980s one-CD-per-country navigation which is totally
>> useless to me and no variable speed control (against BMW principles
I
>> suppose).
>
> What about *not* getting the standard fit nav and putting a
retro-fit
> in that does do that (and saving a big chunk, I presume)?
>
> I don't know about the variable limiter, but I know the OBC on
> mid-90s 3s included a variable overspeed warning - is that not
enough?

The Mercedes he is used to probably has a speed limiter which can be
activated by the cruise control stalk. BMW has a similar system but it
does not physically limit the speed, only giving a warning that a
limit is being exceeded. Having gone from the Merc system to the BMW,
I do not miss the Merc limiter and generally do not activate the BMW
alarm.
As for a state of the art car with Sat-nav etc. then Honda Accord is a
superb piece of quality kit with a magic diesel. Also the Nissan
Primera with Birdview sat-nav takes some beating. I hope you are ['he
is' but I'll direct OP directly from here] not a badge snob.
If you must have all wheel drive, then the Toyota Rav4 is sporty and
brill to drive but I cannot comment on its sat-nav or availability of
automatic.
Volvo XC70 or XC90 D5 would seem to fit your bill best of all though.

Huw


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"Adrian" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ric ([email protected]) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying
> :
>
>> BMW still has 1980s one-CD-per-country navigation which is totally
>> useless to me and no variable speed control (against BMW principles I
>> suppose).
>
> What about *not* getting the standard fit nav and putting a retro-fit in
> that does do that (and saving a big chunk, I presume)?

I'd love to fit a Becker TrafficPro, but this is now very hard to do with
most manufacturers, particularly as GPS is now integrated with OBC and
steering wheel buttons.

>
> I don't know about the variable limiter, but I know the OBC on mid-90s 3s
> included a variable overspeed warning - is that not enough?

No - it is totally crap and just plain annoying to have a beep every time
you overspeed. MB system is superb - flip it to local limit and you can
accelerate/decelerate/accelerate with traffic without breaking limit and
without getting annoying beeps. It is superb..

"Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> As for a state of the art car with Sat-nav etc. then Honda Accord is a
> superb piece of quality kit with a magic diesel.

With 4wd and automatic?

Also the Nissan
> Primera with Birdview sat-nav takes some beating.

With 4wd and automatic?

I hope you are ['he
> is' but I'll direct OP directly from here] not a badge snob.

Not even mildy - JD Powers is my bible...

> If you must have all wheel drive, then the Toyota Rav4 is sporty and
> brill to drive but I cannot comment on its sat-nav or availability of
> automatic.

Diesel?

> Volvo XC70 or XC90 D5 would seem to fit your bill best of all though.
OK will look - but do they do diesel-automatic?

Ric wrote:
> "Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>> If you must have all wheel drive, then the Toyota Rav4 is sporty
and
>> brill to drive but I cannot comment on its sat-nav or availability
of
>> automatic.
>
> Diesel?

Certainly. But with automatic?


>
>> Volvo XC70 or XC90 D5 would seem to fit your bill best of all
though.
> OK will look - but do they do diesel-automatic?

Certainly. Also the Audi A6 Allroad. But the availability of this is
not known to me presently.

Huw


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"Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ric wrote:
>> "Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>
>>> If you must have all wheel drive, then the Toyota Rav4 is sporty
> and
>>> brill to drive but I cannot comment on its sat-nav or availability
> of
>>> automatic.
>>
>> Diesel?
>
> Certainly. But with automatic?
>
>
>>
>>> Volvo XC70 or XC90 D5 would seem to fit your bill best of all
> though.
>> OK will look - but do they do diesel-automatic?
>
> Certainly. Also the Audi A6 Allroad. But the availability of this is
> not known to me presently.

Thanks - looked at the Volvo range but all are a bit macho for me. I just
want a 4wd estate car that can go in snow in the Alps - not a rambo machine
for city suits to drive around Chelsea.

I can't wait until the Japs cotton on and start producing automatic diesels
like the Germans, but with Japanese reliability and quality.

Ric wrote:
> "Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Ric wrote:
>>> "Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>
>>>> If you must have all wheel drive, then the Toyota Rav4 is sporty
>> and
>>>> brill to drive but I cannot comment on its sat-nav or
availability
>> of
>>>> automatic.
>>>
>>> Diesel?
>>
>> Certainly. But with automatic?
>>
>>
>>>
>>>> Volvo XC70 or XC90 D5 would seem to fit your bill best of all
>> though.
>>> OK will look - but do they do diesel-automatic?
>>
>> Certainly. Also the Audi A6 Allroad. But the availability of this
is
>> not known to me presently.
>
> Thanks - looked at the Volvo range but all are a bit macho for me. I
> just want a 4wd estate car that can go in snow in the Alps - not a
> rambo machine for city suits to drive around Chelsea.

Volvo XC70? Macho? You are kidding..........aren't you?
These machines are just what you seem to need but are put off by their
school run image, when those that use them on the school run are
attracted by their ability to tackle snow in the alps. You do see the
paradox?

Huw






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Ric ([email protected]) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying
:

> I can't wait until the Japs cotton on and start producing automatic
> diesels like the Germans, but with Japanese reliability and quality.

"Hate something, change something" <GRRRRR!>
Can I have some of what Honda's ad people are on? Please?

In article <[email protected]>, Ric wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm looking to buy a 4wd diesel-estate-auto with a decent DVD navigation
> system that covers all of Europe and a variable speed-limiter (as fitted to
> Mercedes and Renaults - not the same as cruise control). I don't want
> cumbersome SUV type cars - I've no need of deep mud or offroad ability - I
> just want low centre of gravity and decent motorway handling with ability to
> cope with snow in mountains as I work in Alps during winter.
>

If you forget diesel for a bit you may find Subaru do something that might
fit the bill. I'm specifically thinking of the Legacy, never had one but
I've always liked them. Some, such as the B4 are very quick too, not sure
if they do an estate version though.


--
simon at sbarr dot demon dot co dot uk
Simon Barr.
'97 110 300Tdi.

"Simon Barr" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> If you forget diesel for a bit you may find Subaru do something that might
> fit the bill. I'm specifically thinking of the Legacy, never had one but
> I've always liked them. Some, such as the B4 are very quick too, not sure
> if they do an estate version though.
>
Subaru would be perfect if they did diesel. They regularly come top of
JDPowers. They're a bit short on legroom for me though.

It is a real shame Mercedes is so poor quality at the moment - the C-Class
4matic has everything I want except I don't want to have my second home in
the Mercedes dealer...

I agree - what about a diesel Subaru? Please? The Forester is great, but its
too thirsty.

Tim A

"Ric" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Simon Barr" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > If you forget diesel for a bit you may find Subaru do something that
might
> > fit the bill. I'm specifically thinking of the Legacy, never had one
but
> > I've always liked them. Some, such as the B4 are very quick too, not
sure
> > if they do an estate version though.
> >
> Subaru would be perfect if they did diesel. They regularly come top of
> JDPowers. They're a bit short on legroom for me though.
>
> It is a real shame Mercedes is so poor quality at the moment - the C-Class
> 4matic has everything I want except I don't want to have my second home in
> the Mercedes dealer...
>
>