Water pump now fixed

Tsg said:

I just wrote all of this out just to post it in the wrong place
Hello Land Rover-its!

I am wondering if you dear people of the internet can help with a drama I'm have with fitting a water pump.

Things to note,
1:dispite only being 31, I think forums, facebook and most other social media things of the internet suck, so I tend to use google or just guess when I don't know how to do something ( with the water pump this hasn't helped so far, hence this, my first post on an Internet forum....ever!)

2: I should probably not own spanners... (a HGV mechanic once called me a menace to machinery?)

3: I cannot (or are to incompetent to) find this RAVE manual.

4: I have searched google and read the posts on different forums, but none have even mentioned the part I can't get my head around.

Here goes: 2 months back, 'er in doors noticed water leaking under her freelander. It looked to be the thermostat housing so i put a new one in, though I lost the "coolant rail o-ring" which was ordered and she had that fitted by a garage, ( why she couldn't get them to do the whole thing in the first place is a mistery)

Anyway on Wednesday just gone she returned home from work complaining the heating wasn't working in the car.... yes you guessed it! Another coolant leak. Though this one seemed to be a few mm closer to the engine then the first leak. I took the car to the same garage that fitted the o-ring, the said that it is the water pump, and that it will cost £700 to fix, but they don't want to do it, because it looks like a ball-ache.

Against her better judgement she has tasked me to do it. Today's "session" saw the water pump finally free from the engine and now this is where I'm confused.

I went to remove the old pump gasket and found what looks like a cross between a gasket and the plate that sits in between the engine and bell housing on my car. It seems to be firmy intent on staying in place on the right hand side of it though the left hand side is free. On closer inspection it could actually be bolted down and/or be in between the engine and power steering pump.

My question is, when people have changed there water pumps have they left that plate/gasket alone or have they persisted in getting it of and using a new gasket? As I can't find any mention of it, in any of the post/ write ups that I have read on the forums.It appears to be metal and feels like it has a small crease in the bottom of it where I removed to pump, I would be worried that crease would be enough to make leak.

Any thoughts on this matter would be gratefully received. I know that this post has been quite rambling but i have tried to let you guys know where I'm at in the task as well as inform you that I have no idea what I'm doing but 2 months ago had the thermostat housing off which is much different to what I'm trying to do now.

Oh it's a '55 plate TD4 if that helps at all.

Thanks for your time
Tom

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teddywood1 said:

£700 where in the hell are they coming from and yes replace the gasket.

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Gogadget said:

Hi tag
The metal gasket that you can see when the water pump has been taken off needs to come off and a new gasket purchased. The original was a one piece metal gasket which you have to cut or bend off at the small bridge ing points around the edge, new gasket is fiber material. Don't forget to put some blue heamatite on both sides also on the gasket to the thermostate .

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Tsg said:

Update!!

Gogadget,
You sir are indeed correct the original gasket has little tabs that need to be snapped in order to get the old gasket off, thank you for your help in this matter.

For anyone that cares I will tell you how the last two weeks have panned out .(and for anyone who has read this far and thinks I am a tw@t, please read to the end.... your not wrong)

Firstly I work nights so I've only had about 2 hours of daylight each day to get all the tools out and set up for work on the car before have to call it a day.

I removed the the water pump and thermostat housing as one by
.jacking the car up
.removing front O/S wheel
.remove header tank hose from the metal pipe*
.10mm bolt (head size,not M10 bolt size),thermostat top pipe
. 'Stat lower water pipe*
.caught coolant in a washing up bowl
.2x10mm A/C tensioner bolts
.A/C belt
.24mm spanner on aux belt tensioner**
.aux belt
.4x t40*** bolts on the water pump
. Water pump/thermostat housing****

*trust me, buy locking hose clamp pliers, the first time the housing was removed in this adventure it took literally THREE Hours to put them back on, any to anyone who reads this and thinks they can do it without them faster, you may be right but your an idiot.

**i placed the ring part of the spanner on the aux belt tensioner nut so that stepping back and looking at it, it pointed to 7 o'clock. I used a 1/2" long extension bar (another spanner would have worked but I had that to hand) on the open end of the spanner for leaverage and puled towards the front of the car..... first attempt was fine but the second attempt the nut turned (bad words!!!) I put a 15mm spanner on the back side of the pulley gave it 1/4 of a turn and that sorted out so again the front 24mm nut can be used to slacken the aux belt.

***in an earlier post I referred to someone called gt40 whos awesome wright-up I sort-of followed with the exception of not undoing ANY of the engine mounts with enough bad language this wasn't necessary also in that he says it t30, on hers it's definitely a t40 torx bit. The top one got undone from... the top. The other 3 from underneath. one can be got to from the steering rack hole but it can also be got from the same position as the other 2 bottom ones. I have a felxi-head 3/8 socket wrench with an 8mm but holder which helped , though it was so floppy I wedge a ting bit of cardboard in the wrench to get to stay at a nice angle. I wiggled the water pump to take the weight of the bolts when the were lose enough to be undone by hand

**** to get them off together I used the same methods as I had when taking the thermostat housing only off, a month previous. I Pulled up with all my might on the metal pipe that was bolted to the top of the hosing whilst trying to move the right side of the assembly up and out (towards the wheel arch) lots of wiggling and crying happened but it finally came off then I slid it towards the fire wall and out through the steering rack hole

Whoop whoop it's off, looking at the water pump and 'stat I couldn't see any obvious defects that would have caused a stream of water to come out, I guessed it see a tiny hole but nope. Oh well I thought that's probably why I'm not a mechanic because the mechanic++ at the garage definitely said that there was a hole/crack in the water pump that's causing this.

So I set about putting it back together

. I stole the 4xBolts that hold the stat to the water pump with the 1/4 socket and E8 torx but that I had brought an month ago to take the housing of the first time.

.blue hylomer on the pump/gasket I used a genuine gasket (brought seperatly) it's metal and has a ridge that fasces the engine side.

.blue hylomer on the other flange and the put the new-new thermostat housing using the reclaimed E8 bolts

.whist this set I used a flat head screw driver and sand paper to clean the area of the engine where the pump goes to get any rust off so it's a flat surface again.

.put a new oring on the metal pipe that goes to the thermostat it just seem safer then putting in the recess on the housing just incase it move when I forced in place

.slid the the pump/stat/new gasket back through the steering rack hole

. Offered up to the where it sits

.swore
.swore again

. Recovered the gasket that had just knocked off

. Did that a few more times

.then used a reel of cotton to tie the gasket I'm place through the 4 bolt holes

.i put the assembly back in the same way as taking it out it just sooo much longer^^^

. I put the 10mm bolt back on the metal pipe/thermostat housing to take up the weight of the pump

.i used a punch to line the bolt holes then put the 4xT40 bolts on the water pump and remembering I read somewhere that their tightened to 7N.m. For those of you like me that don't own a torque wrench, as a rule of thumb 7N.m of torque is equivalent to just blowing on the bolts to tighten them up or something equally stupid.

.put the water hoses back on did the bottom on that goes to a big metal pipe first then the top that goes in the bottom of the stat housing

.Put the belts back on, A/C belt no rocket surgeons required for that one, however I've read that people have struggled to figure out the route of the aux belt, but when I looked at it it can only possibly go one way because the alternater/P.A.S/crank pulley/water pump pulleys have groves for the v-ribbed side of the belt and the tensioners are flat and that's what the outer side of the belt sits on, after putting it on the pas,alt and stationary pulley the then put it around the water pump and crank pulleys slid the 24mm spanner trough the belt and turn the pulley anti-clockwise to take the tension out of the spring and aloud me to put on the belt on to the tension, then I let the spring to move the pulley back and automatically put the correct tension back on the belt

.I filled the car back with coolant
.Blew into the header tank to simulate the pressure of when the engine is running
.swore...ALOT

Not only had my-Incredible Hulk size lungs -blew to hard on the 7Nm bolts and crushed the ridge on the gasket, the coolant was still streaming out of the same area on the new water pump.

I used a torch and my phone to make a video of where the coolant seem to be coming from, and it looked to be above the water pump.

After lots of bad words I took the water pump back off and made a new video
View attachment 113012 This is what I found, there was a hole in the freeze plug (core plug).

++ @rsehole mechanic, surly the would have used an endoscope to look at the leak before choosing not to take the job on, it a garage for hell sake I assumed they would have an endoscope camera, I mean nowadays you can get the for £20 from eBay that plug into your phone to used it as the screen to show the image it records.

£15 and 2 days later a set of plugs arrived and I tried to get the old one out. For anyone how doesn't know, search YouTube to see just how easy it is to remove them........ if the engine is on a bench !!!or positioned in such away the you can hit them straight on with a hammer and a screw driver. After an entire morning smashing away at it with a straight pry bar and a hammer it finally popped out. With out the luxury of space to hammer the new one in I used a bit of threaded M8 bar, a deep socket, an M8 (13mm) nut and a 13mm ratchet spanner to make a press to press the new one in,it was fiddling as hell and the blue hylomer I used to he went everywhere but 30mins later it was in there good. So water was given a new gasket, a fiber one this time but again as GOGADGET said with sealer on both sides, the thermostat was still attached to it.I brought a pair of shoe laces, made one into a loop and put the round the water pump pulley the around the engine lifting eye to take the weight so I could use both hand to position the pump.

^^^ this time I rotated it 90• so the stat points up with this I was able to back the stat up to the metal pipe whist rotating it into the correct position. This time the gasket stayed in place and I put everything back as described earlier in this novel. I call her to bring my car to the garage and take the freelander back. She arrived with a big smile ready to have her car back just at the point I was about to turn it on and bleed and air out (interesting fact, the Brit part thermostat has a "jiggle valve", they help bleed air out of the coolant system rather then the having to wait for the thermostat to be fully opened......either that or it's just so cheap it rattles).

I turn the key and I get one engine revolution...THATS IT! due to the combination of me using the driver side footwell as a tool box and the fact that Land Rover believes you need a tiny poxy ring of light around the ignition barrel, which by the was is total point less because you know where the key goes you don't need to look even if you did need to you would have to open the door to get your head in a position to see the ignition barrel, and (presuming, like me your interior light are set to go on when the car door is open) and doing that set the interior light on any!! the stupid ring of light is point less the only things it has ever done in its stupid life is make her battery flat,ahhhh!
Never mind I've got a set of jump leads, I tried to jump it but this time it gave me enen less power, almost as if my car was actually taking power from the freelander. Anyway I took the battery of and charged and I'm happy to report that she finally has her freelander back on the road with no water leaks and She saved £700 the cost to my sanity was enormous though. If anyone has found this post because they have searched on google for how to remove a thermostat joining or water pump from a TD4 freelander land with the intention of doing it themselves please take this post as a warning, it's hard work and will take a lot longer then you expect and could turn out be be something different.... but good luck!!!

Click to expand...

Tsg said:

Update!!

Gogadget,
You sir are indeed correct the original gasket has little tabs that need to be snapped in order to get the old gasket off, thank you for your help in this matter.

For anyone that cares I will tell you how the last two weeks have panned out .(and for anyone who has read this far and thinks I am a tw@t, please read to the end.... your not wrong)

Firstly I work nights so I've only had about 2 hours of daylight each day to get all the tools out and set up for work on the car before have to call it a day.

I removed the the water pump and thermostat housing as one by
.jacking the car up
.removing front O/S wheel
.remove header tank hose from the metal pipe*
.10mm bolt (head size,not M10 bolt size),thermostat top pipe
. 'Stat lower water pipe*
.caught coolant in a washing up bowl
.2x10mm A/C tensioner bolts
.A/C belt
.24mm spanner on aux belt tensioner**
.aux belt
.4x t40*** bolts on the water pump
. Water pump/thermostat housing****

*trust me, buy locking hose clamp pliers, the first time the housing was removed in this adventure it took literally THREE Hours to put them back on, any to anyone who reads this and thinks they can do it without them faster, you may be right but your an idiot.

**i placed the ring part of the spanner on the aux belt tensioner nut so that stepping back and looking at it, it pointed to 7 o'clock. I used a 1/2" long extension bar (another spanner would have worked but I had that to hand) on the open end of the spanner for leaverage and puled towards the front of the car..... first attempt was fine but the second attempt the nut turned (bad words!!!) I put a 15mm spanner on the back side of the pulley gave it 1/4 of a turn and that sorted out so again the front 24mm nut can be used to slacken the aux belt.

***in an earlier post I referred to someone called gt40 whos awesome wright-up I sort-of followed with the exception of not undoing ANY of the engine mounts with enough bad language this wasn't necessary also in that he says it t30, on hers it's definitely a t40 torx bit. The top one got undone from... the top. The other 3 from underneath. one can be got to from the steering rack hole but it can also be got from the same position as the other 2 bottom ones. I have a felxi-head 3/8 socket wrench with an 8mm but holder which helped , though it was so floppy I wedge a ting bit of cardboard in the wrench to get to stay at a nice angle. I wiggled the water pump to take the weight of the bolts when the were lose enough to be undone by hand

**** to get them off together I used the same methods as I had when taking the thermostat housing only off, a month previous. I Pulled up with all my might on the metal pipe that was bolted to the top of the hosing whilst trying to move the right side of the assembly up and out (towards the wheel arch) lots of wiggling and crying happened but it finally came off then I slid it towards the fire wall and out through the steering rack hole

Whoop whoop it's off, looking at the water pump and 'stat I couldn't see any obvious defects that would have caused a stream of water to come out, I guessed it see a tiny hole but nope. Oh well I thought that's probably why I'm not a mechanic because the mechanic++ at the garage definitely said that there was a hole/crack in the water pump that's causing this.

So I set about putting it back together

. I stole the 4xBolts that hold the stat to the water pump with the 1/4 socket and E8 torx but that I had brought an month ago to take the housing of the first time.

.blue hylomer on the pump/gasket I used a genuine gasket (brought seperatly) it's metal and has a ridge that fasces the engine side.

.blue hylomer on the other flange and the put the new-new thermostat housing using the reclaimed E8 bolts

.whist this set I used a flat head screw driver and sand paper to clean the area of the engine where the pump goes to get any rust off so it's a flat surface again.

.put a new oring on the metal pipe that goes to the thermostat it just seem safer then putting in the recess on the housing just incase it move when I forced in place

.slid the the pump/stat/new gasket back through the steering rack hole

. Offered up to the where it sits

.swore
.swore again

. Recovered the gasket that had just knocked off

. Did that a few more times

.then used a reel of cotton to tie the gasket I'm place through the 4 bolt holes

.i put the assembly back in the same way as taking it out it just sooo much longer^^^

. I put the 10mm bolt back on the metal pipe/thermostat housing to take up the weight of the pump

.i used a punch to line the bolt holes then put the 4xT40 bolts on the water pump and remembering I read somewhere that their tightened to 7N.m. For those of you like me that don't own a torque wrench, as a rule of thumb 7N.m of torque is equivalent to just blowing on the bolts to tighten them up or something equally stupid.

.put the water hoses back on did the bottom on that goes to a big metal pipe first then the top that goes in the bottom of the stat housing

.Put the belts back on, A/C belt no rocket surgeons required for that one, however I've read that people have struggled to figure out the route of the aux belt, but when I looked at it it can only possibly go one way because the alternater/P.A.S/crank pulley/water pump pulleys have groves for the v-ribbed side of the belt and the tensioners are flat and that's what the outer side of the belt sits on, after putting it on the pas,alt and stationary pulley the then put it around the water pump and crank pulleys slid the 24mm spanner trough the belt and turn the pulley anti-clockwise to take the tension out of the spring and aloud me to put on the belt on to the tension, then I let the spring to move the pulley back and automatically put the correct tension back on the belt

.I filled the car back with coolant
.Blew into the header tank to simulate the pressure of when the engine is running
.swore...ALOT

Not only had my-Incredible Hulk size lungs -blew to hard on the 7Nm bolts and crushed the ridge on the gasket, the coolant was still streaming out of the same area on the new water pump.

I used a torch and my phone to make a video of where the coolant seem to be coming from, and it looked to be above the water pump.

After lots of bad words I took the water pump back off and made a new video
View attachment 113012 This is what I found, there was a hole in the freeze plug (core plug).

++ @rsehole mechanic, surly the would have used an endoscope to look at the leak before choosing not to take the job on, it a garage for hell sake I assumed they would have an endoscope camera, I mean nowadays you can get the for £20 from eBay that plug into your phone to used it as the screen to show the image it records.

£15 and 2 days later a set of plugs arrived and I tried to get the old one out. For anyone how doesn't know, search YouTube to see just how easy it is to remove them........ if the engine is on a bench !!!or positioned in such away the you can hit them straight on with a hammer and a screw driver. After an entire morning smashing away at it with a straight pry bar and a hammer it finally popped out. With out the luxury of space to hammer the new one in I used a bit of threaded M8 bar, a deep socket, an M8 (13mm) nut and a 13mm ratchet spanner to make a press to press the new one in,it was fiddling as hell and the blue hylomer I used to he went everywhere but 30mins later it was in there good. So water was given a new gasket, a fiber one this time but again as GOGADGET said with sealer on both sides, the thermostat was still attached to it.I brought a pair of shoe laces, made one into a loop and put the round the water pump pulley the around the engine lifting eye to take the weight so I could use both hand to position the pump.

^^^ this time I rotated it 90• so the stat points up with this I was able to back the stat up to the metal pipe whist rotating it into the correct position. This time the gasket stayed in place and I put everything back as described earlier in this novel. I call her to bring my car to the garage and take the freelander back. She arrived with a big smile ready to have her car back just at the point I was about to turn it on and bleed and air out (interesting fact, the Brit part thermostat has a "jiggle valve", they help bleed air out of the coolant system rather then the having to wait for the thermostat to be fully opened......either that or it's just so cheap it rattles).

I turn the key and I get one engine revolution...THATS IT! due to the combination of me using the driver side footwell as a tool box and the fact that Land Rover believes you need a tiny poxy ring of light around the ignition barrel, which by the was is total point less because you know where the key goes you don't need to look even if you did need to you would have to open the door to get your head in a position to see the ignition barrel, and (presuming, like me your interior light are set to go on when the car door is open) and doing that set the interior light on any!! the stupid ring of light is point less the only things it has ever done in its stupid life is make her battery flat,ahhhh!
Never mind I've got a set of jump leads, I tried to jump it but this time it gave me enen less power, almost as if my car was actually taking power from the freelander. Anyway I took the battery of and charged and I'm happy to report that she finally has her freelander back on the road with no water leaks and She saved £700 the cost to my sanity was enormous though. If anyone has found this post because they have searched on google for how to remove a thermostat joining or water pump from a TD4 freelander land with the intention of doing it themselves please take this post as a warning, it's hard work and will take a lot longer then you expect and could turn out be be something different.... but good luck!!!

Click to expand...