VVC Conversion questions- Please be nice

I have owned many a Rover over the last 10 years but the Missus has a 1.8 Freelander which is a none starter and is FWD now due to a snapped propshaft, this makes the car an ideal project.

I also have a track ready Rover 200 Vi with the 143 VVC engine, but i have no time to track it making this an ideal donor. The engine is fitted with a 52mm throttle body, 160 vvc inlet manifold with standard 143 injectors, Magnecor ignition leads and a Pipercross venom induction kit making feel a lot more responsive than when it was standard.

My knowledge is limited to reading thread after thread about Rover VVC conversions but i'm sure 99% applies to the Freelander.

So- The K series Freelander is mems 1.9, the Vi is mems 2, the only difference between both MEMS is the MEMS 2 is upgraded for the VVC mech.

As far as i've read on Rover k series conversions from 1.8 to 1.8vvc, for mems 1.9 to 2 seems to be that a complete 143 vvc engine, box, engine loom, ecu, 5as & fob makes this conversion a plug and play for a 1.8 none VVC. Both the Vi & freelander don't have A/C so the freelanders pipework should fit without much issue.

Could the conversion be any different for the freelander as it for a Rover?

As for the gearbox and driveshafts, using Rovers again, the 1.8 none vvc driveshafts can be used for the VVC PG1, as the freelander will be FWD i'm guessing the PG1 VVC box will match with the freelander driveshafts as the engine is mounted in the same position?

As for the exhaust manifold, this will obviously need to be freelander spec for clearance. I have to consider how the flow restrictions putting a 1.8k none vvc exhaust manifold on a vvc engine will affect flow and whether the restriction from the manifold will create too much disturbance for the exhaust gases to exit properly? And then if the restrictions are minor, possibly compensating by fitted a decat.

As i am new to the layout of the freelander chassis, can anyone see any downfalls to this plan?

I've read quite a few Freelander VVC conversion threads but nothing definitive. I'm not after trying to move the earth with the conversion, just see if its as simple as it seems.

If theres anything anyone can think of, please add it to the thread.

Cheers,
Dave.

The engine will fit, no problem. The exhaust manifold isn't ideal for maximum power, but it won't loose much more than 5 Bhp. ECU and harness would need some work but it should be solvable.
The offside drive shaft will need to be made or found as the length is wrong. Look at a ZS 120 OS shaft, it might be close enough to work.
I don't think the VVC engine running the VVC box with 27" wheels will work well in the heavy Freelander body though. All you can do is try.

Why?

Freelaner said:

Why?

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The 200 vi looks like this-




Her family love Land Rovers and have owned many 90's Range Rovers, Freelanders & Defenders and I love tinkering with Rover/MG's.

The missus has an attachment to this particular Freelander, the engine is on 150k and a none starter, It will get scrapped if nothing is done with it, the Vi i already have for the majority of parts and don't have time to track the car itself.

It could be the cheapest option to get the Freelander up and running and a fun short term project with the engine having a little more poke than standard.

in front wheel drive though

anyway I generally frown on wasted time turning freelanders into summat they're not but if you have all the bits and have the knowledge to do it.
and you want to, crack on

Nodge68 said:

ECU and harness would need some work but it should be solvable.

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Are you meaning the loom for the body? Do you know what will need adapting?

Nodge68 said:

The offside drive shaft will need to be made or found as the length is wrong. Look at a ZS 120 OS shaft, it might be close enough to work.

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Is this due to the freelander box using 4WD?

Freelaner said:

in front wheel drive though,
anyway I generally frown on wasted time turning freelanders into summat they're not but if you have all the bits and have the knowledge to do it.
and you want to, crack on

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Cheers, It's currently sat on a relatives farm and they aren't happy its still there. It'll get scrapped soon if its not moved so rather than fitting the same engine again, then tinkering with it (because thats what i always end up doing), i might as well have a go at fitting another 1.8 that has a little bit more get up and go.

I've read a lot of threads with people asking about more power from the k series in the freelander, it'd be good to give it a go and see whats needed other than the obvious.

It's more about getting it up and running with what i have, rather than going for power figures. And Its only going to be used on the road, so FWD isnt really an issue.

jda070504 said:

Are you meaning the loom for the body? Do you know what will need adapting?



Is this due to the freelander box using 4WD?

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The engine ECU and loom will need to come from the VI. I suspect it will need some mod’s to fit the Freelander harness.
The Freelander uses a modified rover PG1 box. This means the near side drive shaft should fit.
The Freelander has a transfer box or IRD as it's know to sort out the 4wd bit. This is bolted to the offside of the gearbox, hence the difference in drive shaft length. It would be better if you can retain the Freelander's transmission. The gearing on the Rover box without the IRD will be geared to high. The name IRD stands for Intermediate Reduction Drive. The Reduction bit makes the gearing low enough for the engines tiny 120 ftlb of torque drive the car.
I suspect running a standard FWD gearbox in the Freelander will produce a vehicle much slower than standard, the VVC engine has only a couple of extra ftlb of torque but at much higher rpms. Don't forget that Freelander has 27 inch wheels against the VI's 24 inches and weighs 300 Kg's more than a VI.

Nodge68 said:

It would be better if you can retain the Freelander's transmission. The gearing on the Rover box without the IRD will be geared to high. The name IRD stands for Intermediate Reduction Drive. The Reduction bit makes the gearing low

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Cheers for that, i've just spotted its a lot of your posts i've been reading on past threads about freelander PG1's and VVC conversions.

Sorry if it seems a bit repetitive.

I'll have to agree though, from what you've explained, keeping the Freelander box seems to be the best bet as long as the bolt pattern is the same as the PG1 used on the Vi. Because of the VVC engine, would using a diesel box, or just the final drive for that matter, have much benefit?

I like your ideas. Always interested in tinkering with things to see just what can be done. I'm doing something similar to you. I have a 98 1.8 FL1. Nodge has been kind with wisdom and ideas. I've tried to implement those where practical. One suggestion was to fit a VVC head to the st'd motor [ minus all the VVC paraphernalia]. It would certainly help it to breath better! Cost stopped me on that one!

It could be an interesting mod without going the whole hog with the VVC engine and wiring loom/s and associated dramas.

Some on here have described the FL1 as skittish at best when a FWD, not being designed as such that would be understandable. Likely as not it may be more twitchy with an uprated motor - take care.

My own project is nearing completion. I've taken the opportunity as the head is off to do some minor mods. They include: strengthened bottom oil rail, mod'd oil pump, fitted a small engine oil cooler, MLS HG, deburred the inlet and exhaust manifolds [ removed plastic / metal slag - debris left from manufacture], decat pipe,fitted a PRT thermostat and will fit a K&N Apollo a/filter with a CAF. Head work: enshrouded the valves, back cut the valves, trimmed the bottom of the valve seats to match the throats, slightly widened the valve throats where they transition to the runner, lowered the hump in the exhaust runners, rounded the valve guides, paired back the exhaust biurification, port matched inlet and exhaust ports and opened up the coolant apertures - exhaust & inlet sides.

My aim is for a better breathing motor and the torque curve still down low, good pulling power at lower rev's.

I'm keen to explore fine tuning the valve timing and will get some expert assistance with that.

I will, and I think others will to, watch your progress with great interest.

jda070504 said:

Cheers for that, i've just spotted its a lot of your posts i've been reading on past threads about freelander PG1's and VVC conversions.

Sorry if it seems a bit repetitive.

I'll have to agree though, from what you've explained, keeping the Freelander box seems to be the best bet as long as the bolt pattern is the same as the PG1 used on the Vi. Because of the VVC engine, would using a diesel box, or just the final drive for that matter, have much benefit?

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The VVC engine will be a straight swap for the standard 1.8 onto the Freelander transmission. You won't need the stronger diesel box as the 1.8 doesn't make enough torque to warrant the use it.
If you can utilise the 4wd, then do so. The Freelander is better as a 4wd. It spins the front wheels easily without it.

As for the final drive, will the Derv one be worth fitting? The gearbox on at the minute was one the missus bought reconditioned as her brother managed to put a whole is the side of the last week.

The rover 75 & MG ZT used the standard 1.8k as well and were made whilst in BMW ownership, which is the Freelander 1 era which went on to use the BMW units. Maybe a serious long shot but could the looms be similar?

I've no idea when it come to the wiring side of it, would need to looke at how the standard freelander loom pieces together, and compare that to the VVC engine loom.

The diesel PG1 box will fit but I personally wouldn't fit one. The final drive is just to high for the 1.8. The diesel engine makes 50% more torque than the 1.8 so is able to use the higher ratio.

The wiring won't be to hard to sort. The body connection might even be the same. You just need the wiring diagrams for both vehicles. After this, it's only the immobiliser that needs programming.

Nodge68 said:

The wiring won't be to hard to sort. The body connection might even be the same. You just need the wiring diagrams for both vehicles. After this, it's only the immobiliser that needs programming.

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I didn't realise the freelander didn't use a 5as like the rivers, would mean the vvc ecu will need deciding.

Another thing that has popped up, the fuel rail.... The rovers run a return pipe from the fuel rail and the freelanders don't I believe. Is that right?

Cheers again.

jda070504 said:

I didn't realise the freelander didn't use a 5as like the rivers, would mean the vvc ecu will need deciding.

Another thing that has popped up, the fuel rail.... The rovers run a return pipe from the fuel rail and the freelanders don't I believe. Is that right?

Cheers again.

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I'm not 100% sure what security the Freelander uses. I suspect that there is a drop down for the ECU use T4. It's doable.
Just use the Freelander fuel rail. You don't need the return line for the Freelander as the pressure regulator is in the tank as part of the pump.

Nodge68 said:

You don't need the return line for the Freelander as the pressure regulator is in the tank as part of the pump.

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I was thinking whether this that would be an idea In all honestly.



1998-2000 FREELANDER 1.8 K SERIES ECU IMMOBILIZER CENTRAL FOB SET MKC104394 | eBay

Definitely not the same as the rover unit

The immobiliser ECU still communicates with the engine ECU. This I would think is simply programming the two ECUs to work with each other.
Failing that, it should be possible to disable the immobiliser completely. Sone markets like Japan for instance don't use the immobiliser at all. It's simply turned off in the T4 security menu.

Nodge68 said:

The immobiliser ECU still communicates with the engine ECU. This I would think is simply programming the two ECUs to work with each other.
Failing that, it should be possible to disable the immobiliser completely. Sone markets like Japan for instance don't use the immobiliser at all. It's simply turned off in the T4 security menu.

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Yeah, the mems 2 can be unlocked to run without the 5as immobilizer.

So far for the conversion were up to-
1.8k vvc 143 engine from a mems 2 Rover and loom.
Retain freelander fuel rail.
Retain freelander pg1 gearbox with IRD.
Mems 2 ECU unlocked to run without immobilizer. (will fit hidden ignition cut off switch).
Standard exhaust will work. Rover vvc & 1.8 exhaust options to be looked into.
Freelander to VVC Wiring loom still an unknown.

As for all my searching on this conversion, that's the most complete (but still short) guide i know of.

Besides the loom, nothing really seems to be much bother.

Things to be done with the vvc engine out-
All belts, water pump, thermostart, upgrade oil rail & Head gasket, replace inlet and exhaust manifold gaskets, rocker gasket, new plugs. Oil cooler from a vvc, new clutch, Possibly steel caged gearbox bearings, modify the selector rod with poly bushes and fit a quick shift gear level/ mechanism to remove the sloppy gear selection. Then fit

5 minute job then....

jda070504 said:

Yeah, the mems 2 can be unlocked to run without the 5as immobilizer.

So far for the conversion were up to-
1.8k vvc 143 engine from a mems 2 Rover and loom.
Retain freelander fuel rail.
Retain freelander pg1 gearbox with IRD.
Mems 2 ECU unlocked to run without immobilizer. (will fit hidden ignition cut off switch).
Standard exhaust will work. Rover vvc & 1.8 exhaust options to be looked into.
Freelander to VVC Wiring loom still an unknown.

As for all my searching on this conversion, that's the most complete (but still short) guide i know of.

Besides the loom, nothing really seems to be much bother.

Things to be done with the vvc engine out-
All belts, water pump, thermostart, upgrade oil rail & Head gasket, replace inlet and exhaust manifold gaskets, rocker gasket, new plugs. Oil cooler from a vvc, new clutch, Possibly steel caged gearbox bearings, modify the selector rod with poly bushes and fit a quick shift gear level/ mechanism to remove the sloppy gear selection. Then fit

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Sounds good. Let us know how you get on.