Vibrations, low power and generally out ideas – TD5 – 2005 defender

Thank you to all that are using and sharing on the forum. I’ve tried t search the forum, and others for answers. It seems that the problem is common, but not the solution to my problem.

My problems started this spring, and there have been some hours in frustration and in the garage. The old flywheel (original dual mass) was on the end of its life. Changed it and the clutch for the LOF single mass set. There were vibrations that I assumed was also linked to the dual mass not working as it should. But the vibrations and sluggishness around 1600-2100 (turbo kicks in). It feels very much like misfire; the reason I’m strongly in believe of this is that it may some days run much smoother (sunny days).

The car lacks power from low RPM, until the turbo kicks in. This is very noticeable (like a proper turbolag), its not having power and we must use the clutch to start the car in sloped places.

-Replaced the wire loom for the injectors, non LR, Paddock spares

-Tried to clean the connector at the ECU

-Opened the ECU, found very little oil. Cleaned.

-New top cover gasket, non LR, paddock spares

-The gaskets and copper rings have been replaced, original LR

-New MAF, non LR, Paddock spares

-EGR valve removed, exhaust cooler blocked. There were leaks on either side of the exhaust cooler, so I believe I lost turbo pressure when the EGR opened.

-Westgate thread adjusted, down to 8, nothing changes. Now at 12. Checked with air pressure and the rod moves before 1,5 bar, (around 1,2-1,3)

-Checked the adjustor rod, the valve moves freely.

-Three different mechanics have been looking at the car, in believe of a mechanical vibration. Not engine related. All blaming the new clutch. But as it may run smooth, I believe that that would be permanent.

-There is black smoke at the exhaust tip. And it is noticeable when the engine gets revs up.

-Probably more than I can remember at the moment…



My feeling is that the engine does not get enough air. Is the turbo on its way out, and would like to be replaced? 220000km

Removed the hose between the airbox and the turbo, it looks fine. Turs fine, not side movement.

Unfortunately, I cannot open the CSV file from the nanocom. Something with Norwegian language and the viewer not in line with that. It works on an English computer. So, I’m not able to see my recordings. But from the glimpse while driving I’m not getting the boost I would like to have. Max 1 bar in 80km/h full throttle going up an inclined road.

This will probably be one more of the threads of the sluggish TD5, but I hope that someone else with a fresh pair of eyes (and probably more knowledge) can give me hit of what to look for. Thank you in advance.

Hello @Knutdrab

I agree with your 3 mechanics, the vibration is the LOF single mass clutch/flywheel set.
They are terrible, the pulses of energy from the engine (as it fires each cylinder) is now transmitted directly into the R380 gearbox without any damping.
In turn this is shaking the interrnals of your gearbox and really isn't doing it any good at all.
I'd go further and say that the vibration is producing premature wear and it will only get worse as time goes by, any wear in the synchro gears and layshafts will be amplified.

The std turbo does/can have a fair amount of lag at the lower rev range and the lighter flywheel you now have doesn't help smooth the rotational torque and can make the engine feel like it has less power and is more 'lumpy' (that may not translate very well).

You will likely find you are using higher revs and slipping the clutch to pull away.
Do you know what ratio the LT230 (transfer box) is ?
Is this the original ?
Do you have larger wheels/tyres (than standard) fitted ?

miktdish said:

Hello @Knutdrab

I agree with your 3 mechanics, the vibration is the LOF single mass clutch/flywheel set.
They are terrible, the pulses of energy from the engine (as it fires each cylinder) is now transmitted directly into the R380 gearbox without any damping.
In turn this is shaking the interrnals of your gearbox and really isn't doing it any good at all.
I'd go further and say that the vibration is producing premature wear and it will only get worse as time goes by, any wear in the synchro gears and layshafts will be amplified.

The std turbo does/can have a fair amount of lag at the lower rev range and the lighter flywheel you now have doesn't help smooth the rotational torque and can make the engine feel like it has less power and is more 'lumpy' (that may not translate very well).

You will likely find you are using higher revs and slipping the clutch to pull away.
Do you know what ratio the LT230 (transfer box) is ?
Is this the original ?
Do you have larger wheels/tyres (than standard) fitted ?

Click to expand...

Hi,

Thank you for reading my post and replying. I am concerned you are right. The strange thing is that one some days (sunny warm days) it has been running smooth. It feels like a joy to drive the car. And than other days (cold and wet) the vibration is more than normal. So the vibrations are not constant. And if it would be mechanical it would not change from smooth to rattling the windows? Or do you think it would?

Transferbox is original to my knowledge. Tires are 265/75-16

Thanks

i have a single mass I purchased. It is a lof clutch. will still install because the money is spent. Any other ways to dampening the drivetrain? maybe replace the gearbox, engine mounts and transfer case mounts?

LOF states it matches the dual mass flywheel weight and that their sprung center matches the dampening of the original dual mass flywheel. I am sure that they have done their homework given how extremely crucial this part is.

LG199714 said:

i have a single mass I purchased. It is a lof clutch. will still install because the money is spent. Any other ways to dampening the drivetrain? maybe replace the gearbox, engine mounts and transfer case mounts?

LOF states it matches the dual mass flywheel weight and that their sprung center matches the dampening of the original dual mass flywheel. I am sure that they have done their homework given how extremely crucial this part is.

Click to expand...

I'm happy with the single mass and believe that my problems lie somewhere else. Since it is only in low/mid-range and not constant.

LG199714 said:

i have a single mass I purchased. It is a lof clutch. will still install because the money is spent. Any other ways to dampening the drivetrain? maybe replace the gearbox, engine mounts and transfer case mounts?

LOF states it matches the dual mass flywheel weight and that their sprung center matches the dampening of the original dual mass flywheel. I am sure that they have done their homework given how extremely crucial this part is.

Click to expand...

They obviously have a good reputation in your mind.
Let us know how you get on ...

Tend to disagree with it being the SMF having had one in my Daily 110s and D2 ive never noticed any additional vibrations in over 100k of driving in 3 different cars.

Non genuine mafs are worthless. Unplug it.

Is it more like a kangaroo effect/feeling or is it a true misfire?

If it is mechanical vibration it can be hard to track down could be engine mounts, transmission mounts.

Could even be a dicky injector

Yes, it could be an injector that's occasionally sticking. After that many kilometres of rattling up and down forty or fifty times a second it's surprising that they work at all. Well, I suppose they're not made by Land Rover, so that might explain their longevity. I've heard a much more experienced Land Rover mechanic say of a TD5 that was running rough and smoking 'that's injector knock'.

It's also possible that the ECU has developed an intermittent fault. I had an ECU which occasionally produced rough running. If you switched off and restarted, it was OK. Eventually, every time I started it, the engine would run rough and make a lot of smoke, so it was useless and I got another secondhand one. When it ran roughly, it did so right from the point at which the engine started, so the roughness didn't cut in and out. Initially it was alright about three times out of four, but eventually it reached a point where they were all bad starts so it wasn't much use any more.

bankz5152 said:

Tend to disagree with it being the SMF having had one in my Daily 110s and D2 ive never noticed any additional vibrations in over 100k of driving in 3 different cars.

Non genuine mafs are worthless. Unplug it.

Is it more like a kangaroo effect/feeling or is it a true misfire?

If it is mechanical vibration it can be hard to track down could be engine mounts, transmission mounts.

Could even be a dicky injector

Click to expand...

Hi, thanks for your reply.

I would definitely call it a misfire, almost like one of the cylinders are not working properly.

Looking for a good price original MAF. Will report after fitting this one. Not sure if it was the original that I replaced for the non LR, but the symptoms were the same.
Since the vibrations are only from around 1600 till 2100 i every gear, I find it har for it to be mechanical. I strongly believe that it is some kind of wrong signals, too much diesel compared to the actual air?

Going to the store tomorrow for some more injector cleaner, less than 1/2 a tank left so the concentration will be higher and hopefully more effect.

Checked the hoses from the turbo to the manifold tonight. Non was bad inside. Have pressure tested the system from the airbox, only smoke that came out was through the breeder in the cover.

Brown said:

Yes, it could be an injector that's occasionally sticking. After that many kilometres of rattling up and down forty or fifty times a second it's surprising that they work at all. Well, I suppose they're not made by Land Rover, so that might explain their longevity. I've heard a much more experienced Land Rover mechanic say of a TD5 that was running rough and smoking 'that's injector knock'.

It's also possible that the ECU has developed an intermittent fault. I had an ECU which occasionally produced rough running. If you switched off and restarted, it was OK. Eventually, every time I started it, the engine would run rough and make a lot of smoke, so it was useless and I got another secondhand one. When it ran roughly, it did so right from the point at which the engine started, so the roughness didn't cut in and out. Initially it was alright about three times out of four, but eventually it reached a point where they were all bad starts so it wasn't much use any more.

Click to expand...

Hi Brown,

Thank you for your reply to my post.

Checking the injectors will be on my list, but not something I'm wanting to do at the moment. Not sure if there is anyone skilled to do these injectors close to me.


I have thought about the ECU, will definitely keep my eyes out for a TD% in the region who could lend me a working one so that I could check if this is the problem.


Thanks for your tip.