V6 Inlet manifold rattle

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Nodge68 said:
I keep seeing this sw upgrade a151 for the vis system but how can it work? The vis motor has 2 states, fully open or fully closed both of which are controlled by limit switches!! The ecu looks at the switch state and drives the motors accordingly!!
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There’s a lot on the web about it. A151 recall is only needed on certain Freelanders as they included it as standard at build. We get peeps on ere angry that dealers won’t put it in, when it probably already has it if it’s a later model. It’s said that the butterfly inside can become damaged. Also peeps mention a linkage which can wear. It was also said that the software update stopped the motor going to far (or they changed position etc during the recall) and was set to calibrate motor position betterer. Not really sure about all this meself. I know mine had to have A151 added during a service when they updated everything. And I hope I don’t have to know more about it too.

For more info look at freds like this: http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f9/rough-running-loss-power-rattling-engine-sound-158975.html
 
some times its just the motors. cheaper alternative is a rver 75 intake fannymold. same injun :).

make sure yu get the software update. any dealer can tell you what recalls yo motor has had done.
 
The Mad Hat Man said:
some times its just the motors. cheaper alternative is a rver 75 intake fannymold. same injun :).

make sure yu get the software update. any dealer can tell you what recalls yo motor has had done.
Click to expand...

I've had many dealings with the KV6 over the last 10 years or so but it seems only LR mention a Sw upgrade. The vis motors themselves are generally easy to fix as most faults are bad solder joints. The plenum as us ZS180 guys call it is regarded as a service part and as such has a limited life!! I just don't see how this SW upgrade can work with switches controlling it?
 
Is the soldering fault bad soldering of the wires connecting to the motors or switches?

A151 attached. I don't have copies of the other documents it refers to. It's dated 26 June 2006. My Freelander had A151 in March 2005. There must be a previous copy of this recall for the dealer to do the recall before this date. It's written on a receipt they gave me.
 

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Hippo said:
Is the soldering fault bad soldering of the wires connecting to the motors or switches?

A151 attached. I don't have copies of the other documents it refers to. It's dated 26 June 2006. My Freelander had A151 in March 2005. There must be a previous copy of this recall for the dealer to do the recall before this date. It's written on a receipt they gave me.
Click to expand...

There are 2 main problems with the Vis motors. One is oil ingress into the motor housing which causes the motors to burn out if left a long time. It's really easy to stop the oil getting in. You just need to drill a .5mm hole in the outer casing in a convenient place. This will introduce a tiny air leak into the plenum via the Vis motor case but I does keep the oil out the motors. The solder joints on the switches fail due to the switch not being held in place so every time the cam operates the switch it moves so in time causes the solder joints to fail. It is possible to fix the switches to the pcb with 2mm plastic bolts and nuts by drilling the pcb to match the holes in the switchs.
 
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hi guys,
im new to hear, i have got a freelander 1.8 petrol 2002 model.
i can hear rattling noise from top of my inletmanifold.i have seen on here people have problem with v6 model but i cant see any vis motor unit on my inletmanifold assembly .
could you please let what could this noise be?
Thank you
 
Hello All.

I've just repaired my VIS actuators with info. from Repair a failed VIS actuator - XPowerForums - For MG, XPower & Motorsport Enthusiasts

In my case, as well as the expected dry microswitch solder joints, both diodes had failed open circuit. The diodes fitted are 1N4007 devices (1000V 1A devices, pennies on Ebay). I only had 1N4004 (a 400V 1A part) in stock, so I just fitted these..

Testing awaits me tomorrow morning...

Bodge99
 
Hello All,

Very pleased to report that the VIS actuator repairs were successful.. The engine now only sounds like a "small bag of spanners" as opposed to a "big bag...".

About the A151 software update... I don't have a definite "official" description of what this one really is.. just rumours and conjecture.

My take on this one ties in with one explanation of A151 that I heard...

I've some experience with computer control and microcontroller design (hobbyist level only).

The two switches on VIS actuator boards define the limits of rotation... the control electronics can only sense (if they actually **really** do this) when each switch is on or off... computer control between these positions would either require a more sophisticated rotation sensor (which hasn't been used) or the use of software extrapolation to time when each switch is on or off. Partial rotation could be calculated from this.

This would still require periodic "calibration" involving maximum rotation.. This could be done at switch on.... but I find it hard to believe that this is actually performed in this manner.

I did hear that the A151 update operates the actuators fully open at all times (where appropriate).. This, in my view, totally negates the whole design principles of the inlet plenum..

If this is actually correct... then this is a real bodge solution IMHO.

The "proper" way of fixing this is to design a linkage mechanism that will outlast the life of the vehicle...

Has anyone else any views on this at all??

Bodge99
 
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bodge99 said:
Hello All,

Very pleased to report that the VIS actuator repairs were successful.. The engine now only sounds like a "small bag of spanners" as opposed to a "big bag...".

About the A151 software update... I don't have a definite "official" description of what this one really is.. just rumours and conjecture.

My take on this one ties in with one explanation of A151 that I heard...

I've some experience with computer control and microcontroller design (hobbyist level only).

The two switches on VIS actuator boards define the limits of rotation... the control electronics can only sense (if they actually **really** do this) when each switch is on or off... computer control between these positions would either require a more sophisticated rotation sensor (which hasn't been used) or the use of software extrapolation to time when each switch is on or off. Partial rotation could be calculated from this.

This would still require periodic "calibration" involving maximum rotation.. This could be done at switch on.... but I find it had to believe that this is actually performed in this manner.

I did hear that the A151 update operates the actuators fully open at all times (where appropriate).. This, in my view, totally negates the whole design principles of the inlet plenum..

If this is actually correct... then this is a real bodge solution IMHO.

The "proper" way of fixing this is to design a linkage mechanism that will outlast the life of the vehicle...

Has anyone else any views on this at all??

Bodge99
Click to expand...

Exactly the same view as you ;) If you read my post on this thread from last January I basically said the same thing!!
There isn't any real way this A151 update can affect the VIS motors as they have only 2 states, ie fully closed or fully open, both states are determined by the limit switchs. Being that switchs are mechanical there is no way that the ECU can compensate with any degree of accuracy the actual position of the motor.
LR as far as I can tell was the only manufacturer to roll out this update. MG Rover didn't and the KV6 was fitted into many more Rover vehicle's than LR!!
Most problems with the VIS are oil ingress into the motors or the ball and socket joints wearing on the power valves.
The oil ingress is easy to fix by drilling a 0.5mm hole into the top of the motor casing. This keeps the oil out the motor chamber ;)
There are a few people who have rebuilt the plenum with metal ball and socket joints on the power valves.

There are a few
 
Hello.

Nodge68:

Sorry.. I did actually read all of the posts in this (and every other) thread that I could find... It's just that I've been jumping through hoops over the last few weeks trying to get my V6 legal.. I do appreciate each and every post.. all are interesting and most extremely useful to me. I just forgot where else I had seen a similar opinion.

One thing I did notice during testing... When "blipping" the throttle, the engine takes slightly longer to return to idle... does this seem normal to you? I would value your opinion.

Bodge99.
 
bodge99 said:
Hello.

Nodge68:

Sorry.. I did actually read all of the posts in this (and every other) thread that I could find... It's just that I've been jumping through hoops over the last few weeks trying to get my V6 legal.. I do appreciate each and every post.. all are interesting and most extremely useful to me. I just forgot where else I had seen a similar opinion.

One thing I did notice during testing... When "blipping" the throttle, the engine takes slightly longer to return to idle... does this seem normal to you? I would value your opinion.

Bodge99.
Click to expand...

The V6 Freelander engine performs and runs very differently too that of my ZS180!!
The Freelander has been mapped to work with the auto box instead of a manual.
This mapping and the fact that the manual flywheel is replaced by a heavy fluid filled torque converter really affects the way the engine revs both in neutral and when pulling the car.
For reference the standard flywheel weighs around 10 Kg's whereas the torque converter comes in at a rather heavy 25 Kgs + fluid!!
My ZS180 engine will hit the limiter from idle in around 1 second. The Freelander takes considerably longer!!
Letting the engine slow to idle is again affected by the torque converter and it's 5 litres of fluid. This massive weight increases the rotating mass so much that it does slow down slower. But if it really does take a very long time to return to idle then you may have a sticky IACV.
 
Hello,

Nodge98: Thanks for that... Appreciate your input... it's just that I noticed the difference from what I was used to, when testing the refitted VIS actuators...

I'll look at the IACV and see if anything is amiss there..

I'll update as and when.. This sort of stuff might help someone else.

Many thanks.

Bodge99
 
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