Turbo Failure

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Landy89

New Member
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I need some good advice. Here is the situation:
I have a 2.5TD (19J) engine that was recently overhauled and bored to oversize 40. The injection pump was replaced. The turbo was replaced, but with a 300tdi turbo and custom fitted oil lubrication hoses/pipes. After only 2500km the turbo is leaking alot of oil into the air intake system. when i feel the turbo shaft, i can move it up and down, which i think means it is finished. There is also alot of oil leaking out of the exhaust manifold gasket. There is oil leaking out of the wading plug holes. And the engine overheats when put under load. I think that all these problems are related to the stuck turbo; but i'd like to hear other people's opinions.

What do you think about the 300tdi turbo fitted to my 19J? is it a problem? it was done because there are no 19J turbo's here in South America.

I also have too much compression in the cylinders causing knocking. Is this turbo related?
 
Not sure why you spent so much effort on the 19j when it would have been more cost effective and beneficial to simply retrofit a Tdi to the vehicle. As it stands, turbos can be overhauled when they become worn out. Don't know how long that 19j is going to last with that 300 tdi turbo stressing it though :eek:
 
It is not cost effective to replace my engine with a 200tdi. First there are no 200tdi in south america, it was never sold here. Second the price of an old worn out one is US$10000. Third, it is impossible to import a motor from the UK as the customs duties here are 100% of the value. Fourth, i can't buy a used 200tdi from teh UK as if the quality is bad when it arrived in south america, what am i to do???
 
If you have oil coming out of your wading plug holes i would suggest that the main bearings are worn or your oil pressure relief valve has stuck open and is allowing the pump to produce to much oil pressure. Turbo impellor shafts do have play in them as they run on a constant film of oil, but if once again the pressure is to high the excess has to go somewhere. Can you check the pressure of your oil by using a guage?
 
bmp42 said:
If you have oil coming out of your wading plug holes i would suggest that the main bearings are worn or your oil pressure relief valve has stuck open and is allowing the pump to produce to much oil pressure. Turbo impellor shafts do have play in them as they run on a constant film of oil, but if once again the pressure is to high the excess has to go somewhere. Can you check the pressure of your oil by using a guage?
Click to expand...


Spot on!

If the oil pressure relief valve is jammed shut, you may have well over 200 psi oil pressure, that's 15 BAR pressure and pehaps more. BAD.
The turbo WILL leak oil at this pressure but SHOULD NOT BE DAMAGED by it.

The normal play in a turbo shaft is quite noticeable - you will feel and see the shaft move as you poke at it.

Before doing anything else, make sure the oil pressure is not too high.

60psi / 4 bar is as much as it should ever be.

If you use standard gauge to check it, take care! DO NOT REV THE ENGINE, and be ready to cut the motor seconds after start-up if the needle hits the high end of the dial.

The last time this happened to me was an Austin Maxi. The oil gauge needle went TWICE clean round the dial and damaged the gauge. There was 250+ psi oil pressure because the relief valve was stuck.

CharlesY
 
When you say you can move the shaft up and down are you talking in and out (along the shaft) or actually up and down (90 degrees to the shaft)

And by how much?

Plain bearing turbos should have very little play in them, its only roller bearing turbos that you get a bit more movement on. Any damage on the compressor housing or blades?

When cold its typical to see around 100psi oil pressure on an engine at around 3000rpm and approx 60-80 on idle. This will generally drop to around 15-20psi on idle when warm and 60-70psi at 3000rpm.

not sure what you mean by too much compression in the cylinders, have you measured it? If its knocking then it could be piston slap or the big ends are shot.
 
CharlesY said:
Spot on!

If the oil pressure relief valve is jammed shut, you may have well over 200 psi oil pressure, that's 15 BAR pressure and pehaps more. BAD.
The turbo WILL leak oil at this pressure but SHOULD NOT BE DAMAGED by it.

The normal play in a turbo shaft is quite noticeable - you will feel and see the shaft move as you poke at it.

Before doing anything else, make sure the oil pressure is not too high.

60psi / 4 bar is as much as it should ever be.

If you use standard gauge to check it, take care! DO NOT REV THE ENGINE, and be ready to cut the motor seconds after start-up if the needle hits the high end of the dial.

The last time this happened to me was an Austin Maxi. The oil gauge needle went TWICE clean round the dial and damaged the gauge. There was 250+ psi oil pressure because the relief valve was stuck.

CharlesY
Click to expand...
you and i come from the old school, mine was on a eight port ex works mini that I had that happen, gauge burst - got covered from head to foot in good old Castrol R
 
Thank you for the idea about the oil pressure relief value stuck open. I will check that now.
As for the condition of the turbo, there is no damage to the blades or the housing. I can move the shaft a little in and out and a little up and down (perpendicular) to the housing. There is an incredible amount of oil being pushed out the exhuast manifold gasket. And yes i had oil coming oil both wading plug holes. Once my oil level had decresed itself to 1 liter less than normal, the wading holes stopped leaking, the manifold continued to leak. Actually, i noticed that when the engine was full of oil, it spewed out oil a lot..once it had gotten to 1 liter less than normal, it stayed at that level. so that oil pressure relief value sounds like the culprit.

As for the type of Turbo, the housing is still original Garrett T2. Only the turbo core or cartridge was replaced. It was replaced with a core from a brasilian manufactured 300tdi turbo (in brasil the engine is known as Maxion and locally produced).
 
I would also like to add that we are having trouble right now getting the valves to balance. we have been working at balancing them for 3 days!! we balance, then turn the mainshaft few revolutions and then some of the valves are loose. it is a never ending story. we are balancing it with the normal process for a 4 cylinder engine.
 
Landy89 said:
I would also like to add that we are having trouble right now getting the valves to balance. we have been working at balancing them for 3 days!! we balance, then turn the mainshaft few revolutions and then some of the valves are loose. it is a never ending story. we are balancing it with the normal process for a 4 cylinder engine.
Click to expand...

Do you mean valve clearances sometimes known as tappet clearances or valve gaps???

If so then i assume you are setting them using the rule of nine. i.e. with valve 1 at its most open point, you adjust valve 8 clearance. Valve 2 down, adjust valve 7 etc.

Make sure the pushrod is seated in the tappet properly and should be easy to set them.
 
davek0974 said:
Do you mean valve clearances sometimes known as tappet clearances or valve gaps???

If so then i assume you are setting them using the rule of nine. i.e. with valve 1 at its most open point, you adjust valve 8 clearance. Valve 2 down, adjust valve 7 etc.

Make sure the pushrod is seated in the tappet properly and should be easy to set them.
Click to expand...


If he isn't very careful he will have VALVES SMACKING PISTONS, which may be the noise he says he hears.

This is what he said ...
"I also have too much compression in the cylinders causing knocking."

Someone needs to explain to him how to do valve clearances.

CharlesY
 
I have no problems with valves hitting pistons. I have measured my piston protrusions and my valve recesses - they are comfortably within the parameters.
As for how to set the valve or tappet gaps, yes we are doing it the rule of 9 and yes the push rods are seated. All the easy things have been examined. I am starting to think the problem is with the timing belt, the camshaft gear, or a camshaft bushing. I have already examined the pushrods and they are fine.

What i meant about having a lot of compression is that my compression ratio is much higher than the accepted 24:1. It is because of oversize pistons and a milled block. In order to mitigate the high compression, i have had to install a custom head gasket that is 2.2mm thick instead of the OEM gasket which is 1mm thick. I tried it with the OEM, but there was very loud knocking from cylinder 2 at all engine speeds. The valves were not hitting the pistons, it was a compression problem.
 
Landy89 said:
I have no problems with valves hitting pistons. I have measured my piston protrusions and my valve recesses - they are comfortably within the parameters.


None of that is any guarantee the valves are not hitting the pistons.

As for how to set the valve or tappet gaps, yes we are doing it the rule of 9 and yes the push rods are seated. All the easy things have been examined. I am starting to think the problem is with the timing belt, the camshaft gear, or a camshaft bushing. I have already examined the pushrods and they are fine.

What sort of problem? If the TIMING of the belt is wrong, it is very likely the valves and pistons will collide.

REMEMBER - in all these engines, the valved go down lower than the tops of the pistons come up. The WILL collide unless the camshaft timing is very close to correct.

What i meant about having a lot of compression is that my compression ratio is much higher than the accepted 24:1.

How can you possibly know that?

It is because of oversize pistons and a milled block. In order to mitigate the high compression, i have had to install a custom head gasket that is 2.2mm thick instead of the OEM gasket which is 1mm thick. I tried it with the OEM, but there was very loud knocking from cylinder 2 at all engine speeds. The valves were not hitting the pistons, it was a compression problem.
Click to expand...

It might just be diesel knocking due to the injection too advanced, or an injector with a low spring pressure setting. If you are lucky .... setting the injector pressures might sort it.

CharlesY
 
Yes i thought it might be an injector as well, so i installed 4 new injectors...no change in the symptoms. Tried to adjust the timing on the pump...no change. the only thing that made a difference was installing a thicker head gasket. I also spoke with the machine shop that bored out my cylinders and he said that i needed the thicker head gasket as well.
 
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