Too much auto box fluid

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bukko

bukko

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Somerset (but I'm a Landanna)
After changing the fluid yesterday (well someone did it for me!), gear changing got pretty lumpy again this morning.
Sometimes it was really good, sometimes it was just stoopid!

So I thought I'd try another change, but when I removed the level check plug, about 1.2 litres of fluid came out!

Could having too much in there cause the changing problems?
 
First off was the box hot, as in just been driven? The fluid needs to be around 40°C when the level is checked. This is normally achieved in under 10 minutes at idle, also all gears need to cycled for 2 seconds in each gear, and the car needs to be level.
 
Yep had just driven it about 15-20 miles.
Didn't need to cycle the gears it just came out! I'm pretty sure that cycling the gears wouldn't have made it stop...
Dead level - checked with a spirit level!
 
bukko said:
Yep had just driven it about 15-20 miles.
Didn't need to cycle the gears it just came out! I'm pretty sure that cycling the gears wouldn't have made it stop...
Dead level - checked with a spirit level!
Click to expand...

If you drove 15 to 20 miles the gearbox fluid will be far to hot for an accurate level check!! This will give a false high level. The fluid level can only be checked when the fluid temperature is around 40° C
 
Did you remove the level plug with the engine running, when 1.2L came out?
 
Hippo said:
Did you remove the level plug with the engine running, when 1.2L came out?
Click to expand...

No it was off at that point.
I was intending to turn it on after removing the level plug but it came out anyway.

I think maybe Nodge is right about the fluid being too hot. Seems more of a difference than I would expect though. 1.2 litres - really?
I think I'll try topping it up tomorrow when it's at the proper temperature.

Just feel very nervous about about driving it with potentially not enough fluid.
 
Last edited:
It needs to be checked with the engine running.

If you open the level tube plug with a hot engine and the engine off I would expect a litre or so to pour out.

Even with the engine running there will always be 50ml or so come down the level tube.

See this post for how I did it:

http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f9/jatco-fluid-change-success-190451.html

You don't need to drive it to get it to 40degreesC just let it idle for while.

Try to be as accurate with the temperature as possible.
 
Last edited:
Will do thanks.

Just one thing, when I look down the filler hole I can't see any fluid, even with the engine running, so the thermometer won't actually touch the oil.
Does this sound right?
 
bukko said:
Will do thanks.

Just one thing, when I look down the filler hole I can't see any fluid, even with the engine running, so the thermometer won't actually touch the oil.
Does this sound right?
Click to expand...

It's impossible to see anything down the filler hole.

But it'll give a reasonable reading.

I've since got myself an infra-red thermometer and just take a reading off the transmission casing/engine sump.

Be sure you have a small filler funnel.
 
bukko said:
No it was off at that point...

...Just feel very nervous about about driving it with potentially not enough fluid.
Click to expand...
Yer following the instructions incorrectly.

Yer should be. Low oil will start to destroy yer auto if you drive it with low oil. Torque converter will cavitate and gear change will become more noticeable, until it's feked. Stop driving it.
 
To help protect mine and deal with worn parts I'm putting in some Lucas Transmission Fix. My FL turned 118,000 miles yesterday on the way back from Bruges.
 
bukko said:
I'm stoopid, but I'm not fekkin' stoopid!
Okay maybe I am, but I haven't driven it for that very reason you gave.

How are your gear changes now? I think my symptoms are very similar to yours.
Click to expand...
My problem in on the down change at around 10 to 15mph so I assume it's the 2-4 brake timing solenoid, or the clutch/disk/whatever inside causing the problem. The fact that it does it more often when the air con is running leads me to think it's something electrical like an intermittent bad connection or high resistance connection. All solenoids and sensors measure ok. Recent fluid change improved the gear change as it normally does. I'm busy with other things at the moment so I'm sort of lucky it drives ok. If it happens more often then a fluid change reduces the chances of it happening. I still plan to strip my spare to see how difficult it is to take apart. It's my only ride so taking it apart is always a risk.
 
Hippo said:
My problem in on the down change at around 10 to 15mph so I assume it's the 2-4 brake timing solenoid, or the clutch/disk/whatever inside causing the problem. The fact that it does it more often when the air con is running leads me to think it's something electrical like an intermittent bad connection or high resistance connection. All solenoids and sensors measure ok. Recent fluid change improved the gear change as it normally does. I'm busy with other things at the moment so I'm sort of lucky it drives ok. If it happens more often then a fluid change reduces the chances of it happening. I still plan to strip my spare to see how difficult it is to take apart. It's my only ride so taking it apart is always a risk.
Click to expand...

I think this is a programing issue tbh. Mine has a thumpy down change too. Most noticeably when the engine is cold. I think this is because the box ECU can't throttle the engine to ballance the TC / crank speed. On the up change the box ECU tells the engine ECU to ease the torque for the duration of the change which smooths the chance massively. This can't happen on the down change as the engine isn't making enough torque to ease in the first place.
 
Nodge68 said:
I think this is a programing issue tbh. Mine has a thumpy down change too. Most noticeably when the engine is cold. I think this is because the box ECU can't throttle the engine to ballance the TC / crank speed. On the up change the box ECU tells the engine ECU to ease the torque for the duration of the change which smooths the chance massively. This can't happen on the down change as the engine isn't making enough torque to ease in the first place.
Click to expand...
It can't be the program at fault or it would have done it from the start of fitting the recon, and also on the original. It's a fault that has developed over time. It's unfortunate I have it, and the vast majority of owners don't. Could be a worn or sticking solenoid. It doesn't happen specifically when hot or cold. Just more likely when the air con is running. It doesn't do it all the time. Just on the odd occasion. But when it does it more often a fluid change helps. At all other times changes up and down are consistently smooth. Mine doesn't have any issues with up shift.
 
Hippo said:
It can't be the program at fault or it would have done it from the start of fitting the recon, and also on the original. It's a fault that has developed over time. It's unfortunate I have it, and the vast majority of owners don't. Could be a worn or sticking solenoid. It doesn't happen specifically when hot or cold. Just more likely when the air con is running. It doesn't do it all the time. Just on the odd occasion. But when it does it more often a fluid change helps. At all other times changes up and down are consistently smooth. Mine doesn't have any issues with up shift.
Click to expand...

Maybe you have a sticky solenoid then. I've noticed that my box is a little rough on the down change from 4th to 2nd but only when cold. If I drive 2 miles it's fine. Up changes are slick and smooth unless I ease off the throttle at the exact time the box changes up, in this instance the change can be felt but suspect this is because the engine torque is reduced at the exact moment I ease the torque myself!!
 
Nodge68 said:
Maybe you have a sticky solenoid then. I've noticed that my box is a little rough on the down change from 4th to 2nd but only when cold. If I drive 2 miles it's fine. Up changes are slick and smooth unless I ease off the throttle at the exact time the box changes up, in this instance the change can be felt but suspect this is because the engine torque is reduced at the exact moment I ease the torque myself!!
Click to expand...
I can do the same upshift trick from 3 to 4 if I ease back as it's about to make the change. Then the change is more noticeable. Just one of those things. Most the time I can control the pedal so it doesn't happen or wait for the change before easing oft. I have a cunning plan to force and monitor my down shift fault to see if I choose when it happens. If I can control when it happens then I'll be able to pin point what it is hopefully.
 
The reason I thought mine is similar is because most of the time it drives fine, changes are very smooth.
But every now and then the gear changes are very harsh, especially 1-2 and even more so 2-1, although all other changes are affected as well.
Then it'll be fine again for a while.
Seems to happen more when hot.
I'm hoping it is just the oil which is looking better with every change (as you would expect).
Am also wondering if cleaning up the solenoids would help. Did a search but can't find anything although that could just be me being crap, so if anyone knows of a good reference I'd be grateful!
 
First off you need to get the fluid level correct. Running it with low fluid WILL trash the TC!! Then once the fluid level is correct, leave it in there for a few hundred miles. The fluid contains a cleaner that will clean the fluid ways and valves but it takes some miles to work.
Following Hippo's guide to the letter, it's easy to screw up a good box with a bad fluid change. ;)
 
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