Thinking of buying a Range Rover

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I've run lots of all the big Disco & RR options of these as elderly (10 year old+) vehicles for prolonged periods of time clocking up probably 25k+ miles during ownership and have several now, including a lot of commercial towing. I do all my own work as I'm a commercial vehicle mechanic so only ever pay parts only plus my own spare time they never go near a dealer or garage for anything other than a 4 wheel alignment.

Based on my experience I would put them in this order of preference for economy, utility and reliability but please note all of them have a lot to go wrong compared to most regular cars.
1) Disco 2 TD5 ES spec (air susp, active corner etc.)
On this you get near RR level interior and toys pretty good ride and handling, esp cornering, with most things that can go wrong relatively inexpensive in parts and DIYable. Galactic mileages on original engine and gearbox are readily achievable the biggest issue is rust at the rear of the chassis that you would need to be on the look out for when buying and keeping on top of preventing during ownership.

2) Disco 3 / RRS in 2.7TDV6 guise- commonly held to be identical vehicles bar the body shape but not really true ride, handling and noise levels are all superior in the RR Sport
Probably some of the most generally reliable more luxury vehicles LR had produced up until that point. Yes there's suspension arms and electronic parking brake but all doable and not budget busting. These can do the biggest miles without the need for any intervention beyond normal servicing, with everything working. The TDV6 will have a chance it can spin a bearing and snap the crank at some stage but I've seen plenty over 200k on the original engine my suspicion is lots of short trips in the vehicles life may increase the risk as a lot that have come my way seem to have been used on the school run etc. TDV8 in RRS more likely to have a turbo for lunch and personally I don't find the V6 that drastically lacking in performance to justify the, much worse in reality than quoted, mpg.

3) P38s
Now I do like them very much, and yes parts are cheap. The diesel is more reliable but unrefined and not as reliable as the Disco 2 TD5 and a Disco with ACE and air susp gives a much more refined ride. The V8 petrols are, as you'd expect, very pleasing but they all let go with liner and overheating issues at some stage. If you buy a truly great example at say 120k I very much doubt you will get 25k more out of it trouble free if it's the original untouched engine and many go much earlier. Fuel economy is obviously dire LPG is better but my experience is gas converted examples are more likely to slip liners. There are top hat liner rebuilt engine solutions but even fitting it yourself you'll be into the same money as a replacement engine for an LR3 or RRS. My biggest downside to the vehicle is they will almost always have a list of things that need doing, yes the air suspension is perfectly maintainable but it needs way more maintenance than on any of the models above. Ignoring the V8 engine issues If you're doing anything approaching average or above miles you are committing to taking on vehicle repair and maintenance as a substantial time filling hobby.

4) L322s
Basically many of the issues already mentioned plus additional ones the worst of which is gearbox failure. In my opinion beyond a better interior and image you actually get nothing more, and in a few areas less than in an LR3 or RRS plus worse fuel economy, performance and reliability.

In the say £5k - £10k 12+ year old full blown LR luxury 4x4 category my pick would be a good example of an RRS HSE spec (my pick because I have tools, workshop eqpt and vehicle repair experience, in case anyone wonders why I put TD5 top of the list). In the past 15 years development has moved forward very, very little indeed beyond bodging on some touchscreens, powered tailgates, exterior cameras and a small assortment of other electronic tech. In fact, the actual real world driving experience between the latest RR/RRS iterations out of the showroom in 2019 compared to 2005 are absolutely minute compared to driving the 2005 vehicles out of the showroom against the same timespan 1991 year equivalents.
 
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"Range Rover HSE 4.6. Auto. LPG. 1994. Range Rover hse. In black. Grey leather. 140k. LPG conversion. All the usual toys. SPARES OR REPAIRS. as it has NO TAX OR MOT. it’s been same owner last 10 years. +. Been off the road 2 years hence spares or repairs. The bonnet is dented on the front where something fell on it in the garage. PRIVATE PLATE IS INCLUDED. starts and drives in petrol and gas. Just had 1 new airbag on the rear. Suspension does lift up as normal.
£1,000"
LPG fitting invoice is present showing it was fitted in 2002 for £1,750 but doesn"t state what system it is.
I have checked the previous MOT"s online, last one July 2016 which it passed with advisories for rear brake hose slight corrosion & discs corroded from standing.
Only MOT fail was 2014 for a "detached rear shock absorber.
It had passed all its other MOT"s with just a few minor advisories, worn tyre, worn disc, exhaust showing signs of deterioration etc.
It has only done a couple of thousand miles each year between MOT"s since 2006 when the mileage was 120,000, which the MOT check goes back to.
It has been off the road since July 2017.
Thoughts please ?
 
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headlight said:
"Range Rover HSE 4.6. Auto. LPG. 1994. Range Rover hse. In black. Grey leather. 140k. LPG conversion. All the usual toys. SPARES OR REPAIRS. as it has NO TAX OR MOT. it’s been same owner last 10 years. +. Been off the road 2 years hence spares or repairs. The bonnet is dented on the front where something fell on it in the garage. PRIVATE PLATE IS INCLUDED. starts and drives in petrol and gas. Just had 1 new airbag on the rear. Suspension does lift up as normal.
£1,000"
LPG fitting invoice is present showing it was fitted in 2002 for £1,750 but doesn"t state what system it is.
I have checked the previous MOT"s online, last one July 2016 which it passed with advisories for rear brake hose slight corrosion & discs corroded from standing.
Only MOT fail was 2014 for a "detached rear shock absorber.
It had passed all its other MOT"s with just a few minor advisories, worn tyre, worn disc, exhaust showing signs of deterioration etc.
It has only done a couple of thousand miles each year between MOT"s since 2006 when the mileage was 120,000, which the MOT check goes back to.
It has been off the road since July 2017.
Thoughts please ?
Click to expand...
Don't touch it the only reason not to MOT is because it almost certainly won't pass.
This has got 12 months MOT and it's make offer so if you could get it down to around £1500 someone will bit your hands off on ebay for the roof rails for £350 or more and you'd be down to near the same money
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Range-Ro...724538?hash=item469db6f77a:g:6DQAAOSwmy9dh2yV
 
Rangie Disco Sportsman said:
Don't touch it the only reason not to MOT is because it almost certainly won't pass.
This has got 12 months MOT and it's make offer so if you could get it down to around £1500 someone will bit your hands off on ebay for the roof rails for £350 or more and you'd be down to near the same money
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Range-Ro...724538?hash=item469db6f77a:g:6DQAAOSwmy9dh2yV
Click to expand...

Looks decent enough .... but also looks like it is on coils ? :eek:

( non tracking link to the same vehicle:- www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303293724538 )
 
No it is on air suspension & seller says it goes up & down as it should.
I know it is not worth £1,000 but wondered if it may be worth £500 as everything I have seen so far, although having an MOT, has needed work.
I suppose the only real way to know would be to see what it would fail an MOT on but I can't see the seller agreeing to that.
 
headlight said:
No it is on air suspension & seller says it goes up & down as it should.
I know it is not worth £1,000 but wondered if it may be worth £500 as everything I have seen so far, although having an MOT, has needed work.
I suppose the only real way to know would be to see what it would fail an MOT on but I can't see the seller agreeing to that.
Click to expand...

Sorry - I think we are at crossed purposes - I'm talking about the one linked to by Rangie Disco sportsman ( I.E. ->www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303293724538 ) contains an entry in the listing as "2014 - spring replacement" - and there seems to be a bit of an 'ole under the bonnet where the EAS gubbins would be .....

I might be wrong, .... but .....
 
Rangie Disco Sportsman said:
I've run lots of all the big Disco & RR options of these as elderly (10 year old+) vehicles for prolonged periods of time clocking up probably 25k+ miles during ownership and have several now, including a lot of commercial towing. I do all my own work as I'm a commercial vehicle mechanic so only ever pay parts only plus my own spare time they never go near a dealer or garage for anything other than a 4 wheel alignment.

Based on my experience I would put them in this order of preference for economy, utility and reliability but please note all of them have a lot to go wrong compared to most regular cars.
1) Disco 2 TD5 ES spec (air susp, active corner etc.)
On this you get near RR level interior and toys pretty good ride and handling, esp cornering, with most things that can go wrong relatively inexpensive in parts and DIYable. Galactic mileages on original engine and gearbox are readily achievable the biggest issue is rust at the rear of the chassis that you would need to be on the look out for when buying and keeping on top of preventing during ownership.

2) Disco 3 / RRS in 2.7TDV6 guise- commonly held to be identical vehicles bar the body shape but not really true ride, handling and noise levels are all superior in the RR Sport
Probably some of the most generally reliable more luxury vehicles LR had produced up until that point. Yes there's suspension arms and electronic parking brake but all doable and not budget busting. These can do the biggest miles without the need for any intervention beyond normal servicing, with everything working. The TDV6 will have a chance it can spin a bearing and snap the crank at some stage but I've seen plenty over 200k on the original engine my suspicion is lots of short trips in the vehicles life may increase the risk as a lot that have come my way seem to have been used on the school run etc. TDV8 in RRS more likely to have a turbo for lunch and personally I don't find the V6 that drastically lacking in performance to justify the, much worse in reality than quoted, mpg.

3) P38s
Now I do like them very much, and yes parts are cheap. The diesel is more reliable but unrefined and not as reliable as the Disco 2 TD5 and a Disco with ACE and air susp gives a much more refined ride. The V8 petrols are, as you'd expect, very pleasing but they all let go with liner and overheating issues at some stage. If you buy a truly great example at say 120k I very much doubt you will get 25k more out of it trouble free if it's the original untouched engine and many go much earlier. Fuel economy is obviously dire LPG is better but my experience is gas converted examples are more likely to slip liners. There are top hat liner rebuilt engine solutions but even fitting it yourself you'll be into the same money as a replacement engine for an LR3 or RRS. My biggest downside to the vehicle is they will almost always have a list of things that need doing, yes the air suspension is perfectly maintainable but it needs way more maintenance than on any of the models above. Ignoring the V8 engine issues If you're doing anything approaching average or above miles you are committing to taking on vehicle repair and maintenance as a substantial time filling hobby.

4) L322s
Basically many of the issues already mentioned plus additional ones the worst of which is gearbox failure. In my opinion beyond a better interior and image you actually get nothing more, and in a few areas less than in an LR3 or RRS plus worse fuel economy, performance and reliability.

In the say £5k - £10k 12+ year old full blown LR luxury 4x4 category my pick would be a good example of an RRS HSE spec (my pick because I have tools, workshop eqpt and vehicle repair experience, in case anyone wonders why I put TD5 top of the list). In the past 15 years development has moved forward very, very little indeed beyond bodging on some touchscreens, powered tailgates, exterior cameras and a small assortment of other electronic tech. In fact, the actual real world driving experience between the latest RR/RRS iterations out of the showroom in 2019 compared to 2005 are absolutely minute compared to driving the 2005 vehicles out of the showroom against the same timespan 1991 year equivalents.
Click to expand...
I have a P38 on LPG with LPG and 150k 50k on LPG with lots of heavy towing.
HG's were done 2 years ago. I neglected to the front cover gasket at that point and should have done. did it this year. still going strong.

Its a 20 year old 4x4 in daily use, no rust. Radius arm bushes need doing.

I have an L322 SC with LPG no issues pulls like a train. did tbe hub bushes a couple of months ago but bought it knowing it needed some things doing to bring it up to standard

You have to accept that any used vehicle is going to need maintenance. and a 20 year old P38 will probably need a HG change. But how many 20 year old 4x4 are in daily use aznd get no advisories on an MOT
 
ukadamwest said:
I have a P38 on LPG with LPG and 150k 50k on LPG with lots of heavy towing.
HG's were done 2 years ago. I neglected to the front cover gasket at that point and should have done. did it this year. still going strong.

Its a 20 year old 4x4 in daily use, no rust. Radius arm bushes need doing.

I have an L322 SC with LPG no issues pulls like a train. did tbe hub bushes a couple of months ago but bought it knowing it needed some things doing to bring it up to standard

You have to accept that any used vehicle is going to need maintenance. and a 20 year old P38 will probably need a HG change. But how many 20 year old 4x4 are in daily use aznd get no advisories on an MOT
Click to expand...

Yes but that is unusual for a P38. TDV6s and TD5s with 150k+ with no need for a head gasket change are ten a penny and certainly on the former the headlining won't be drooping, the heated seats will be working, the heater matrix won't be rotted through, there'll be a fraction of the problems with the air suspension and you'll never have had any fannying about in a car park flicking the key back and forth trying to enter a code to get into the vehicle. You cannot escape that the P38 is the probably the most unreliable and problematic vehicle Land Rover has produced and yes all elderly vehicles will need some level of attention but my point is there are options from the same company that do all the same things, many of them better with a fraction of the potential issues.

Ok, an LR3 and RRS are going to be at least four years younger but they're still well over ten years old and all these issues on the P38 had manifested themselves when the vehicles were either still in or barely out of warranty and LR failed to engineer in virtually any fixes over the model's eight year production life and in the case of the engine blocks quality actually deteriorated further despite them being very well aware of the problem.

For a P38 to make a sensible choice it is a decision because you really like the vehicle and enjoy fixing and maintaining vehicles in your spare time it makes no sense on any other metric. Will I keep my own P38? Almost certainly. Would I recommend anyone but an ardent enthusiast of the model bought one? Certainly not.
 
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The seller has just messaged me after 2 days & said "the back exhaust box is broken & nothing on the dash works" ?
To me it is a "project" vehicle then & as such is way to dear even at well under the £1,000 asking price.
 
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^^ that looks nice, and looks good value subject to the cat C and some engine / service history :)
 
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