Temperature Guage

Zaphod · Nov 22, 2013

The temp guage in my newly aquired Disco 2 V8 is not working, in fact it has not been working for some time as it was like this for the previous owner and was like this before even he had it.

I originally suspected a failed/unplugged sensor however having examined the relavent sections of RAVE find that if this was the case the temp warning light would alos be on, and it's not. I also find that it would appear as though the same sensor is used for the engine management and the guage, and this would lead to overfuelling and what started as an Oliver Reed thirst would start to look like Oli Reed and Keith Moon out on a binge session, this is not the case, (seem high teens/low twenties, slightly better than my old rangie 3.9 auto)

I suspect foul play to hide overheating at some point in the cars past, are there any other posibilites? has anyone known the temp guage itself fail?

sierrafery · Nov 22, 2013

those instruments are usually quite resistant, but it's not impossible to fail...the easyest thing would be to plug in a tester and run a circuit test on that gauge...if you dont have access to tester, as i see you have RAVE, if you want to DIY i'll tell you what to do to rule things out but it implies some work with wiring and multimeter...if you want that let me know and i'll tell you what to do but i'm not gonna explain if you are not up to it

anyway be adwised that the gauge is managed by the engine ECU based on the sensor signals, so if the engine is running fine but you unplugged the sensor and no warning lamp there might be a bodge as you expected... traceable though

thebiglad · Nov 22, 2013

Zaphod said:
The temp guage in my newly aquired Disco 2 V8 is not working, in fact it has not been working for some time as it was like this for the previous owner and was like this before even he had it.

I originally suspected a failed/unplugged sensor however having examined the relavent sections of RAVE find that if this was the case the temp warning light would alos be on, and it's not. I also find that it would appear as though the same sensor is used for the engine management and the guage, and this would lead to overfuelling and what started as an Oliver Reed thirst would start to look like Oli Reed and Keith Moon out on a binge session, this is not the case, (seem high teens/low twenties, slightly better than my old rangie 3.9 auto)

I suspect foul play to hide overheating at some point in the cars past, are there any other possibilites? has anyone known the temp guage itself fail?

So you're saying that the coolant temp gauge never shows a reading at all, under any circumstances?

What about the cabin heater temp - does that feel normal or only luke warm?

I suspect a faulty 'always open' thermostat.

Dave

Zaphod · Nov 22, 2013

Hi, yes I have a multimeter! And develop automatic test gear for the railway signalling industry for a living!

And the heater is the best I have ever known in a landrover, and going by how quickly it warms up I suspect the thermostats is doing its job (but appears to be the 88 degree one not the 82)

Zaphod · Nov 22, 2013

Right as I had some time I have had a look at the instrument panel, it's been open before as the static precaution stickers were broken. However prior to this I did notice the over heat warning light does come on just after the ignition comes on and then goes out. I also noticed that the ABs light does not come on at all, I even unplugged a front sensor and tried again. The ACE light is also not doing the self check and neither is the HDC (this is a 5 seater with no SLS so that won't anyway) so someone would seem to have had the three amigos shot

I also noticed the idiot lights are in fact SMD LEDs and not filament bulbs so unlikely to have broken

If I push the HDC button It chimes three times but no light (I am not sure if this is normal?) and a quick trip up the road says the ABS is working

Are the TD5 and V8 instrument pack the same? Often the rev counter can be an issue but these days it's possible they just have a straight RPM signal which would enable the same unit to be used in both cars and I notice the rev counter has no markings for a red line on either and the same numbers

sierrafery · Nov 22, 2013

i could have told you that there are LED's not bulbs

... it seems that somebody was busy to hide some faults there

1. the ACE has nothing to do with SLS or ABS, it's a different system which if you dont have it no probs that the ACE light doesnt come on
2. If just the green HDC doesnt come on is one thing... but are the amber ABS, TC and HDC lights doing the self test(3 amigos)? ...cos if not there are more problems
3. the instrument packs are the same, it's a matter of setting via BCU
4. about the tachometer:

RAVE said:
The tachometer is an integral part of the instrument pack. Located next to the speedometer. it displays engine speed
in revolutions per minute. It is an analogue gauge with a maximum reading of 6000 rev/min.
V8 and diesel variants use the same gauge.
The input for the tachometer is from the ECM. It is a digital signal at 2 pulses per engine revolution. When the ignition
is switched on with the engine not running, the ECM will generates pulses equivalent to 228 rev/min for diagnostic
purposes. The tachometer will not register a reading, as it only indicate engine speeds above 228 rev/min.

Zaphod · Nov 22, 2013

The car had no SLS. However it does have ACE, but apparently not warning light for it! Or ABS or HDC or TC warning lights! Examination of the PCB under the cover does not reveal any tinkering but I have not tried to take it out to examine the other side! I have bought another speedo unit to see how that fairs when plugged in just in case I have a duff or mucked about unit on the car, if that one works I may need some more information on it depending on what the odo reads! (Mine is currently at 75k) I have yet to see any hacking at the loom (unless you count the LPG system!)

I will add while the ABS light seems to be non functional stamping on the brakes says that the ABS is functioning!

sierrafery · Nov 23, 2013

be aware that if you plug in a higher mileage instrument pack the higher mileage wiill be assumed by the BCU and it's non-reversible

the most common kind of "blanking" the warnings used by those schmucks who want to hide errors is by putting black tape in front of the LED's...but as you say, do you have any warning light on self check except the oil and battery warning though? ... do at least the MIL light up on self test?

open RAVE - workshop manua - instruments -description and you'll see that the instrument pack should be like a christmas tree on self check if everything is ok

Zaphod · Nov 25, 2013

I had another look at the instrument pack this evening..
Right on the money with the insulting tape, one on the TC, the ABS, both the HDC lights and the ACE. While unscrewing it I also noticed that one of the screws for the temp guage was not all the way in. Put it all back together and it seems the temp guage is fine, it sits halfway and seems steady.

However the three amigos are alive and well

the TC and HDC come on, then go out and come back on, the ABS light stays on permanently, this was not a great surprise once I had found the tape. I realise testbook is the best way to find out what it up, but are there any good places to look for the cause of this?

The ACE light was also blanked off, however removing this does not seem to have brought back the bulb check on start up..

What may also be worth noting is that the ABS does seem to be still working or it seems to when you force it to activate

sierrafery · Nov 25, 2013

yes, now you just have to find somebody with a tester... the light behaviour on 3 amigos looks very like a sensor signal permannent failure but the tester will give you the final answer... the ACE light also can be disabled with tester even if the 'hardware' is there

Zaphod · Nov 26, 2013

I have to say would initialy agree with you on the sensors, as if the system behaves like most ABS sensors I belive the first test is to check they are there, and previous experiniance with an ABS light that never goes out it has been the case. However the ABS appears to work which is an oddity as normally if the light is on it is diabled, this is confusing me. However the cost of a testbook session is nearly half the cost of the ABS amigo USB.. And it seems that might be a wiser investment!

sierrafery · Nov 26, 2013

dont be confused...the ABS is not always disabled with 3 amigos, it enters in a default mode... i know RAVE sais that it's disabled on sensor fault but happened to me too with sensor open circuit that the ABS worked, just that kicked in a bit later.... you can check resistance of the sensors, it must be between 950-1100 ohm, also if you suspend one wheel and spin it you must AC voltage there, not very much, around 1V according to the spinning speed as it grows to 5v at maximum speed... the ABS amigo is way to expenive for what it does, if you want a quite good tool go for this one, i had it and it covers quite well the engine management and the ABS: http://www.obdii.co.uk/car-diagnost...g-vs08-cdp-plus-for-cars-trucks-2013-1version , at least you'll have all your cars covered, check out the coverage list http://www.obd2be.com/download/autocom-cdp-pro-support-car-list.pdf

Zaphod · Nov 26, 2013

Stange I was just looking at that! I shall get one I think,

ALthough I guess its no use with ACE, however what I may do with that is if its possible get hold of another ACE ECU, as the system has fluid, and seems to be leak free, But I'd like to know what colour bulb was being hidden and I would guess that test book turns the inidcator off at the ECU end? as the instruemnt pack seems pretty 'dumb' in respect to the bulbs from what I can gather from RAVE

sierrafery · Nov 26, 2013

tha ACE has a special LED which is in two colours... it turns amber then red on self check or on faults depends on how serious it is... yest that generic tool doesnt cover the ACE... if it's not blanked it might be disabled... not from ACE ECU but from the instrument pack via BCU

Zaphod · Nov 26, 2013

The ACE light was covers with tape, this has been removed but it still does not light up on start up. RAVE seems to indicate that it is directly controlled by the ACE ECU, I wonder if it's conected! I guess it's worth a look!

Oh I know the LED is a two colour one, by which colour I meant is it hiding an amber 'Faulty but nothing terminal' or a red 'go away and cry' one!

Zaphod · Nov 26, 2013

Well I bought one of those OBDII devices see what I can see when it arrives!

sierrafery · Nov 26, 2013

RAVE is not always 100% accurate... the ACE light is controlled by the ACE ECU when it comes about fault warning, but the self check or activation/de-activation can be managed by the instrument pack's internal software through the BCU/Instruments menu(which is nowhere mentioned in RAVE)...i know as i have nanocom which can do that

Zaphod · Nov 26, 2013

I have no doubt that the light can be disabled! Just the method may be internal to the ACE ECU, but how or what does it is not so important as it would seem it has been done

but I will leave it alone till the three amigos have been exorcised! Then get it looked at with a T4 or Nanocom and see what we can see. Odd they would goto the length of disabling the light when they had the tape over it. Are there any other possibilities to why the ACE light is not working? And should any on the other lights in the bottom row under the rev counter be doing anything on a manual V8 disco without SLS? I know there are a few more there! But only the HDC fail light is doing anything, and oil and battery lights do as they should. The 'off road' does not do anything , is this because I don't have SLS, or related to the ACE not behaving? (I believe both have an off road mode)

Is it worth mentioning I don't have any chimes on start up?

sierrafery · Nov 26, 2013

see RAVE - workshop manual - instruments ...but without SLS and manual there's no activity on the bottom row except ACE...though i've never seen factory fitted ACE without SLS... unless it is converted to coils... and you get chimes on self test only on facelift modells, on the early modells you get chimes only when the fault occures while driving

Zaphod · Nov 26, 2013

It is an unusual Disco2, it's a V8 with manual gearbox and no SLS, and it's never had SLS. Its a 5 seater one as well, SLS was an option on the 5 seater but always fitted to the 7 seaters. The spec gets odder, It also has climate control, 2 sunroofs with no leaks, cruise and the harmon kardon radio yet no leather it's a bit of an odball

Temperature Guage

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