TD5 won't rev over 3000rpm

sandu · Dec 13, 2019

this guy says the 110 defender and D2 pumps are identical except level sensor

sierrafery · Dec 13, 2019

IMO that guy is wrong... which seems to be obvious from the first pic for me as the RH side pump(which i presume is for defender) looks shorter... and i dont see the logic why the level sender is shorter as long as the pump is the same height... but i won't bet on it so you choose what to believe, what i remember is that a friend of mine fitted a defender pump to his D2 and replaced the sender based on some forums and he went out of fuel while the gauge was not on red which for me means that the pump was not deep enough also it took only around 75l of fuel while mine takes around 90 from red.

sandu · Dec 13, 2019

I asked there again, to get an updated information on this.
If they confirm the body of the pump is different, I will order the D2 for sure. I don't mind to make an economy on £40 and be worried every time that my fuel gauge is not showing correct level of fuel in tank.
If I get their information, I will update here too

sierrafery · Dec 13, 2019

You can buy only the pump and replace that in the original casing here are part numbers Fuel Pump Level Sender Unit

sandu · Dec 21, 2019

OK, I went and ordered the new pump. But later I've been informed that the WFX000280 has been discontinued by Land Rover and it is not produced anymore.
I felt necessary to get a replacement, so I ordered (on my own risk) the Defender 110 fuel pump, WFX000260.
Today, I replaced the pump and I analyzed both pumps.
Here are some photos with differences.
I observed the only difference being in the fuel level sender. There is a small difference in the form of the sensor, and also, there are some differences in the contacts of the sender.
I kept my old fuel level (assembly) and mounted the fuel pump into the tank.

Now, about the results:
2 years ago, I adjusted the turbo wastegate rod to 9 threads, so that I got the 225kpa.
after changing this pump, I started driving and I got overboosting. I connected nanocom and started to re-adjust the turbo wastegate rod.
I finished to have 15 threads in the turbo wastegate rod.
That means that I was driving with a partially faulty pump for the last 2 years. and in the last month, it simply gave up.
Now I am having 229kpa from my turbo.

yfo866 · Dec 21, 2019

A search on GB eBay resulted in 127 hits. So if LR have ceased production, there doesn't appear to be a shortage of parts yet.
item number: 162679603295 is a bare pump and comes with a five year warranty for 31. 95 of our pounds.
I'm thinking i might buy one for stores

sandu · Dec 21, 2019

I doubt a no-brand pump can be offered 5-year warranty and be a quality product.
I see many times products on ebay disappear after a period of time. In my purchase history, I see a lot of items like this.

If ordering a bare pump, I would only go for Siemens VDO pump from @sierrafery's link

yfo866 · Dec 21, 2019

Well all i can say is that the seller has been on eBay since 2007 have 3,757 followers good feedback so i wouldn't put them in the 'here today gone tomorrow' catagory and clearly stand by their product. But at the end of the day the choice is yours...

sandu · Dec 23, 2019

Hey guys,
I noticed few times when I turn on the engine and start driving, the car is lazy for few moments, theb it pulls fine.

I had this situation 3 or 4 times in 2 days.
I push the gas pedal full, the car seems to be like in in limp mode. After 5-10 seconds, it starts pulling very good and has all power.

Nanocom doesn't show any errors except EGR valve stuck closed (egr blanked long time ago) and air inlet temperature logged high)

Any thoughts?

This occurs only after starting the vehicle. During the trip it does not occur again.

sierrafery · Dec 23, 2019

sandu said:
.....air inlet temperature logged high)

This might show a problem with the IAT side of the MAP/IAT sensor and it takes a short time untill the ECM goes to default hence that hesitation after start-up... see the IAT reading in input fuelling on cold start...it should be very close to the ambient air temp then.

sandu · Dec 23, 2019

Will check tomorrow morning.
Shall I prepare for ordering a new MAP?

sierrafery · Dec 23, 2019

Maybe, genuine LR is the best but if it seems too expensive the only alternative i'd go would be Bosch 0 281 002 205, all the others are lottery and it's a way too important sensor to risk with it

sandu · Dec 24, 2019

Today I did some new diagnostics.
Outside temperature 9 degrees C.
Inlet ambient temperature was 17 celsius with ignition on.
Started engine and temperature started to decrease. It was 14.5, and I had to go, but I believe it could get lower.

Now, after a500km journey, I noticed the power loss for the whole trip.
Connected nanocom, I don't have manifold pressure, only 195kpa...
Wastegate opened 35% buy this time

Were to look again?
Watergate ripped adjustment? Watergate valve?

Today earlier, I found the lower pipe disconnected from wastegate valve...

sierrafery · Dec 24, 2019

IMO the MAP sensor is fubar

sandu · Dec 24, 2019

I feel necessary to write some updates here:
I was thinking if, maybe by mistake I did not observe the bottom pipe from wastegate valve is not connected during my last wastegate rod adjustment.

I disconnected that pipe again, for an experiment and drove the car a little. I noticed 230kpa.
I connected it, and I was only able to get 195kpa.
So I started another wastegate rod adjustment.
I did not have plenty of time, so, during 1h and 40km driven, I was able to raise the boost up to 219kpa.

another issue I noticed earlier is, that I could not observe the auto transmission torque converter lockup. I will be driving the car tomorrow during hunting, hopefully I wil be able to see more positive updates.

questions:
Do you still think that MAP could be defective? Is it worth spending another £100 for this part without knowing it’s faulty or not?
do you think torque converter lockup can be related to this power loss issue?
Wastegate valve is faulty only when an error is logged in the ECU? Or it can be stuck, not working, and no errors can be shown?

sierrafery · Dec 24, 2019

Unfortunately diagnosing things can be expensive as IMO it's better to rule out a suspect sensor based on a fault code rather than checking in blind all over the place, as long as it was 8*C difference between the IAT and AAT with cold engine it's certain that the sensor doesnt work well, just think why would be that difference between the air within the metal inlet and what's outside? remove the sensor in the morning and insert a thermometer in the hole to see. The IAT is contained in the CAN messages toward the EAT ECU so it can affect the autobox management too

The only way to rule out the boost thing is by using a gauge too and compare

the wastegate modulator triggers a fault code only if it's coil goes short or open, disconnecting the pipe from it's bottom lets the wastegate fully closed which on a normally working vehicle would create overboost so IMO as long as the boost reading increased it's normal just that the reading is lower than the reality or there is a lack of boost.

I can't find better way to diagnose this other that putting in a new sensor to be ruled out cos at this point taking into account the fault code too and the low boost reading it's very suspect... never have remorse if you put in a new sensor cos even if it's not the root of the problem the vehicle will always run better with a new than with a ''tired'' one

sandu · Dec 25, 2019

hello again,
here are my observations again:

I did another check in the morning of IAT and outside temperature. The difference was 2*C.
I expect that recently, the bottom pipe of the wastegate modulator fell off, and, during the fuel pump replacement I did not observe this. Therefore, I noticed an overboost, and I started to adjust the wastegate rod to get only 230kpa.
After the 500km trip, I connected the pipe back, and the engine started to be underpowered.
Last 2 days I spent again with nanocom in hands and I started re-adjustment of the wastegate rod. I reached 216kpa for now. Will drive and adjust more in the following days.
Until now, I cannot see the underpower again.
Therefore, for my peace of mind, I will order one new genuine MAP sensor and replace.

Question: Could the wrong things I did (wastegate adjustment with pipe off, and then on) cause the symptoms I described earlier?

sierrafery · Dec 25, 2019

sandu said:
Question: Could the wrong things I did (wastegate adjustment with pipe off, and then on) cause the symptoms I described earlier?

i dont see much use of adjusting the wastegate with pipe off cos then it's closed all the time as there's nothing to push the rod but there's a boost leak through the free pipe.

If you can set the wastegate as to get normal readings and the engine runs well the MAP might be OK, 10 threads left from the nut on the wastegate rod should give you up to 240KPa ... 2*C difference on IAT from cold is acceptable, 8 was too much

sandu · Dec 25, 2019

sierrafery said:
10 threads left from the nut on the wastegate rod should give you up to 240KPa

what max boost shall I let there to have enough power and avoid overboost? 235kpa?

sierrafery · Dec 25, 2019

To be precise, 235KPa is manifold absolute pressure(MAP) not boost. The standard overboost limit is set based on boost at 1.42Bar(142KPa) which is calculated by the ECM from MAP - AAP = boost, so the overboost depends on the AAP too cos if it drops much under load you can have overboost at MAP 235 too(at AAP = 93) if you see what i mean but on a well running Td5 in all the cases i've seen 10 threads left on the rod was exactly up to the limit without overboost, set the rod to 10 threads then if you get overboost back up one turn

TD5 won't rev over 3000rpm

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