TD5 Stripdown and rebuild

Quick update, or more, probably useless, info!

Ive been looking into the coding structure for the TD5 injectors.
As you all probably know, the TD5 uses an EUI injector system, Electronic Unit Injectors mean you dont have a separate injector pump or high pressure common rail.
There is a common fuel gallery built into the head but its only 60 odd psi, as opposed to a true common rail system that can work at around 44,000 psi!

The extra cam lobe on the camshaft acting on the injector via the rocker, generates the high pressure directly inside the injector, on an EU3 TD5 its around 36,000 psi.

When the injectors are built, the TD5,s are by Delphi, they are calibrated and a five letter code is generated which is printed on top of the EUI.
This is the code which must be programmed into the ECU, it ensures the ECU knows the individual characteristics of each injector thus allowing the engine to run properly over the entire rev range.

As my injectors have been rebuilt, the original codes are now invalid, so Ive been trying to find out if I can, for the want of a better word, "hack" the coding system, so I can find out what the codes actually mean, I finally tracked down a bit more info as follows:
The following came from a Delphi paper about their newer injectors (E3) but I think it applies to the older (E1, E2) units as well.

Five letter EUI code: "AABBC" (any combination of letter in two pairs and a single letter is possible)

First pair "AA" Response time, start of injection
Second pair "BB" Response time, end of injection
Last letter "C" Variance in idle performance
Typical codes we see could be "MNDGJ" etc

The interesting bit is that the letter pairs are random, MN is not better or worse than NQ, this was to stop "deliberate overfueling" or tweeking of the performance by simply upping the letter values.

So the bottom line is, no you cant make up your own codes! Phew that was a bit long!

Anyway in my case its irrelevant as my issues are nothing to do with codes! But something more fundamental.

Info from Delphi site and other papers!

Anymore info on the above including "what the hell are you talking about" welcome.
Mark

Another update about my injectors! Had a good email exchange with Keith at United Diesels, turns out just the replacement nozzle for a Delphi injector is £120 plus fitting etc, so my bill for "rebuilding" five, of £500 seems a bit low!

United put me onto Merlin Diesels, they have the correct Hartridge tester and can also generate new codes.
They charge £35 to test them and about £150-£200 for rebuilding them, each.

Also confirms that previous "advice" that you cant rebuild EUI,s is incorrect!

Its worth getting them tested even if they turn out ok, so I can eliminate them from the equation, but also get new codes.

So ill be sending mine to them in a couple of weeks. Ill let you all know how it goes!
Mark

That's good to know you can get them done, but I would still explore the other areas first, i.e. the suspect injector 1 fit, if you pull the injectors it should be obvious if it has not been seated.
Handy to know about Merlin Diesels, wonder if anyone here has used them?

Hi Ray, yes Im going to check Ive not done anything silly! But Ill get the injectors retested anyway, as that will give me the correct new codes.

Merlin look ok, They have been around a while and according to Companies House have a net worth of almost £5M and in 2014 made a net profit of £800K!!! They exhibit at large shows and also make the test equipment. I spoke to Gareth in the workshop, he came across as pretty genuine and wanted to sort the issue.

Im looking at getting someone to remove the injectors for me so I can get this sorted asap.

Mark

Quick update on my injectors! Merlin tested them. Four passed test no problem. One failed "badly", hopefully this will be the literal "smoking gun"!
So one of my "rebuilt" injectors was faulty! Shame, I guess I wont be using the previous company again!

All injectors coming back to me this week, total bill for testing, re-coding and one refurburbished injector is £394 incl vat.
Add this to the previous injector testing/rebuild bill of £350. and it starts to add up!

Im back in UK next week to fit the injectors (with new rocket shaft bolts this time!)

If anyone in the Bedford area has a Nanocom or similar and (for fuel tokens!) can come up to Biggleswade next weekend and help me code the injectors into the ECU, that would be very much appreciated!
Mark

Best of luck Mark, hope this will be the part when you start to get the "well done, I did that " feeling.
I am planning to pick up a used TD5 block soon and I want to spend the winter getting it ready then hope to overhaul my engine in spring next year, I'm sure the dam thing knows it because it is running better than ever just at the moment, but I would like to have it in top shape.

Hi Ray I cant believe how long its all taken!
I was doing the major work on the hot Summer weekends, now its bloody Winter!
But its taken so long because Im not in the UK much now, hopefully by next weekend it will be done, fingers crossed its not the head cracked again though!
MOT has now expired so got to get that sorted as well.
At least after dropping the tank I know the chassis is pretty sound.
Then probably sell her, or drive her back to Tallinn!
Mark

Thought I would do a quick update!
Fitted the injectors. Didnt have a Nanocom so I havent updated the ECU.
After a few purges she fired up, no smoke and no misfire
As she hasnt moved since April I did a few runs up the road to free of the brakes, all good.
Popped in for MOT today...failed! But only on rear brake balance, no real surprise there!
Passed the emissions test with flying colours! "Very clean" was the comment from the tester.
Getting brakes sorted Thursday, easy fix, so she will be all legal by the weekend.
Very, very tempted to drive her home to Tallinn but that would mean buying Winter tyres, even though the Grabber AT,s are good in the snow they dont have the M&S snow flake so they are not legal in Estonia.
Ill do some final tidying up then she is up for sale
Total bill?.....Slightly North of £2.5K + lots of nice Summer weekends work!
Mark

Final update on my long thread!
Passed MOT today, new calipers/pads. Brakes feel very nice!
A wash and brush up Sat AM then hopefully she is going to be sold
It was great to drive her again after so long off the road.
Despite needing the injectors to be coded in, she starts first turn and drives very well.
Next year I will be in the market for another, probably a D3/4, I had a chat with a guy who has a late D3 with the 3 L engine, recons its never had any real issues, gets around 32 MPG.
Thanks for all the nice feedback and advice!
Mark

Well, it's been fascinating to watch the engine rebuild over the last six pages. I'm pleased to hear it was just one of the injectors playing up and nothing wrong with your workmanship. Seems a shame to see it after putting all that work in. If I rebuilt an engine that meticulously, I'd want to get my money's worth out of it afterwards!

Brown said:

Well, it's been fascinating to watch the engine rebuild over the last six pages. I'm pleased to hear it was just one of the injectors playing up and nothing wrong with your workmanship. Seems a shame to see it after putting all that work in. If I rebuilt an engine that meticulously, I'd want to get my money's worth out of it afterwards!

Click to expand...

My feelings exactly, so glad it runs well now must be a great feeling to know you stuck at it until it was done, I am looking at re building my engine next year and I will draw on the information in this thread to plan the job.

Hi guys, thanks for your nice comments! I have to say after a trip today, to Grantham and back to meet a fellow forumite who is buying her, I realised how much I enjoyed, and missed the D2 experience!
It was a good shake down run, previous outings had been to the MOT place, all working as hoped, and I loved the driving position, my hire car is killing my back!
But it looks like its now sold, probably going during the week.
If I had more time in the UK I would consider a project, maybe a CATD rebuild, seen a few on Copart, they are being written off with very little damage now.
Otherwise I may get a D2 in Estonia, prices are similar over there and, despite the weather, they are usually in pretty good condition.
But ideally it will be a D3/4, dont know what it is with Landies, but once tried your addicted!
Mark

D3's can be a money pit. My wife's has had a new short block after crank shaft failure, auto box overhauled, new air compressor (the one I rebuilt didn't last) all new suspension arms, 3 sets of egr valves before I gave up and blanked them and now put up with the warning light! Front wheel bearings and a host of other stuff I can't remember.
A couple of friends who have had them have suffered similar faults and all mine listed are common ones.
Glad you got yours running and it's a shame you had to sell it

Hi Gazman. Yes your experiences seem to be not that unusual!
I dont like random failures in cars (or anything!) ive had cars with known faults which I can sort, but major engine failures that basically write a car off are a big no no!
The 3.0 is supposed to be better than the 2.7, but Im sure there are quite a few on-line debates about that.
I missed buying a D4 commercial a few months ago, very nice spec and a bargain at £15k +VAT! Prices seem to be going up now, poss because fuel is so cheap.
If I did get one it would be in Estonia, prices there are the same as UK, mileages are usually a bit higher, 300K Km is not usual on 10 year old cars, but they look after their cars very well.
Drove her again this morning, I love it!!
Just wish I had a Nonocom to code the injectors, she runs ok but pick up is slow.
Mark

Sadly my buyer had to pull out. So Im may be doing my road trip after all, looks like I will be spending sometime with her!

Thought Id put this thread to bed!
Popped over to Rogers in Bedford today.
New injector coded in, all the others matched settings in ECU so thats good.
Now she runs soooooooo sweetly! None of the previous hesitation.
So thats that!
Eight months, a lot of weekends, lot of frustration with injector testing, approx £1.4K in parts and £750 for injector repairs.
Worth it? Well I learnt/re-learnt a lot!
I now have a few more new tools, an engine hoist and stand and a box of used parts!
And a Landie that I love driving!
Thanks for everyones support during re-build!
THE END

Hi Mark,
i am trying to rebuild the head of my defender td5; was just wondering if the hole on the lash adjusters need to be positioned just opposite the hole in the head when they are lowered in their 'seats'

Hi No it doesnt, the oil runs around the whole hydraulic tappet.
BUT make sure you keep the adjuster upright, I did when I did the major rebuild, but I didnt when I replaced the head later.
I have another thread in this section about that!
If you let any oil drain out of the adjuster it will "tap" when its running.
Mine seem to be ok now, but thats after 15K miles of running!
Drop me a message or post here if you need anymore info.
Mark
Edit: To correct awful grammar!

Test using Flickr pic
IMG_8825 by mark davis, on Flickr

Yey Flickr worked!
If I get a min ill rebuild the pics on this thread with Flickr to replace PB