Td5 On Biodiesel or Veggie Oil

Hi All,
I've read thro' the many mirriad of e-mails referring to run Land Rover's on Biodiesel or Cooking Oil, but is anybody using either "bio/veggie oil" regularly in a Td5. My 2001 Disco 2 Td5 Auto covers about 1000k miles per week and the obvious reason for the question is the cost of fuel.I'm not convinced about the 2 tank system which Elsbett in Germany want me too have for £850.00 which will pre-heat the oil prior to pushing thro' those rather expensive EUI's. Biodiesel I can get at £0.80p per litre and looks the best prospect, but can we run the Td5 on this stuff.
Last week i took the plunge and put 30 lts of Tesco's Finest Veggie Oil in the tank along with 60 lts of Shells Diesel Extra and waited for the worst. By the way it was a one off experiment your majesty, and if it's successful, I will be applying for my EX103 form or whatever, to pay the duty.Anyway believe it the car actually ran smoother and quieter, now I know we sometimes do things and imagine that those little magnets we have stuck in the fuel line are returning fuel consumption figures of 150mpg and will accelerate to 60mph in 6.3 sec's. But this actually did sound better. It didn't make the thing go any quicker, the fuel consumption was about the same, well no to be honest it wa slightly worse. so the conclusion to the experiment was the car felt quieter and smoother as testified by the domestic committee "what have you done to the truck it seems better".. nothing love.."you have, it's quieter". Anyway can we run these things on Biodiesel or are there untold disasters waiting to happen.

Tone It only breaks down when I use it

see this thread: http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/showthread.php?t=22566

Hi Bigstoo,
thanks for that, I had read the threads, but the answer I was trying to find from Land Rover, is the Td5 engine biodiesel compatable. I think it's related to the Electronic Unit Injectors driven individually from the camshaft, which provide 2000+ bar (29000psi) that may be the stumbling block.
SVO or even heated oil in a 2 tank system may in the short/long term cause damage to the injectors. Hence the thought of running on Biodiesel.

Tone

I worked for a skip hire company a few years ago and all they ran the trucks on was bio diesel.

The boss (a very tight fisted man)!!, started to put bio diesel in his Td5 Discovery, After 4 months things started to go wrong, The pump and injectors both failed and because he was using bio diesel the men at Land Rover refused a warranty claim!!!!!!, It cost me and the other lads a pay rise and him 2K in repair bills!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I suppose the moral to this is, if you want economy then buy a fiesta, However if you want comfort and space then just smile and keep the derv flowing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Uncle Tone i would start saving for some injectors.

I have got a customer who ran his td5 on bio fuel for about 6 months yes it was all ok at first till the injectors packed up

The moral of my storey is

If you run your car on vegi oil then expect to pay out more in the long run on engine parts

Bio derv 80p per ltr
propper derv 96p per ltr

5 injectors for a td5 £1250+fitting

work it out for your self m8

Your customer was'nt a mad old irishman was he ??????

no

but i do think that there is a few that have done the DEED of bio fuel and they have all found out the hard way.

The BIG £££££ saving takes over the greedy ones till they have the injectors to pay for lol

Thanks guys, that was what I needed to know, well sort of, well it's back to the Shell Diesel Extra and Millers Plus every so often.
I take it that 5-10% rapeseed added to the fuel as per the French obviously isn't going to cause any harm. I hope not I do a lot of miles on the continent.

regards

Tone

The following is copied from the Australian Biofuels Forum, which is encouraging as it is the site admin bloke who is putting his neck out:-

"Re: Landrover TD5
Ken - Has your injector repair co ever tried biodiesel? I'd severely doubt it. They'll just give the safest answer, then make up some stuff to make it sound right. Been there, done that. I experienced all the same sort of crap with my TD4, including official answers from Land Rover that in retrospect made them look like they were typed by the work experience kid.
A common myth about common rail is that it is a "new" technology. You will hear absolute crap like "biodiesel is more viscous" (and the like) used to justify why people don't really know whether it will work or not. Rather than say “I have not tested it” or “I can see no reason”, they have to make up stuff!
This is all the same crap that motivated me to start this website as I was tired of all the misinformation. I hear your pain.


A couple of quick points:

1. The TD4 is also common rail and probably shares a lot in common with the TD5 (I'm a little out of my depth here as I have not really compared the 2 side by side, though I did drive a TD5 once). Very many diesel engines are common rail now and it can hardly be considered a "new" technology any more. Eventually, it will become quite common.
2. Biodiesel has the same viscosity as petroleum distillate. I know, I've tested it myself . It has much higher lubricity than dino diesel, but this can only be a good thing. Uneducated mechanics frequently confuse viscosity and lubricity. Always take these arguments with a pinch of salt. You can quite easily discount a large base of the "fact" that your injector pump dude has based his assertion on as he does not know that increased lubricity will lengthen the life of his equipment and without any increased viscosity. Many mechanics who spend the time to understand this critical difference will change from biodiesel cynics to converts pretty quickly. Still it is a leap of education that most do not bother to take.
3. “Clean Fuels” hardly have any bearing on the injectors, at least in the context that you were being told about. In fact, the removal of sulphur means cleaner emissions from the exhaust pipe, but much more wear on your injector pump! The new ULSD suffers in the lubricity department. In France, they add biodiesel 5% to ULSD to restore the lubricity. The cleanliness of the fuel in terms of the injector pump will be far more to do with how good your fuel filter is at getting out small bits of crap this would be the same for bio or dino. The injectors will actually get a nice little clean out from biodiesel that they would not get from dino diesel due to the excellent solvent properties of bio. This is the stuff that these guys really need to go and research before selling you these scary veiled threats.
3. Anecdotally, I've been running over 20,000kms on biodiesel now and there are many more "common rail" folk that have done far more than me. If you did take the plunge and start using biodiesel, you'll find out for yourself pretty soon that it will not break your car (it might clean out some of the crap that the dino diesel has left behind and clog your filter with it though).

I say just do it (but make sure that you get commercial biodiesel that is made to Australian spec – don’t give anyone any excuses to blame biodiesel). You'll be glad you did and the more people that do might help to change all this misinformation that is out there.
Last edited by Robert; 13th July 2006 at 01:18 PM."

So, I'm going to give it a go ! Happy New Year !

HeliMurf said:

The following is copied from the Australian Biofuels Forum, which is encouraging as it is the site admin bloke who is putting his neck out:-

"Re: Landrover TD5
Ken - Has your injector repair co ever tried biodiesel? I'd severely doubt it. They'll just give the safest answer, then make up some stuff to make it sound right.

I say just do it (but make sure that you get commercial biodiesel that is made to Australian spec – don’t give anyone any excuses to blame biodiesel). You'll be glad you did and the more people that do might help to change all this misinformation that is out there.
Last edited by Robert; 13th July 2006 at 01:18 PM."

So, I'm going to give it a go ! Happy New Year !

Click to expand...

just wanted to chime in here and say I have been running my 110 Defender on 100% Bio for years. Nothing special about that as they rudimentary engines and can handle it.

However have also been running 2006 Audi A4 Avant sport on 100% Bio too. Done thousands of miles and no issue so unless you use really bad poorly filtered cleaned it should be fine in most diesel engines. Just make sure the computer system doesn't have optical reader as sometimes can shut off engine if fuel looks dark, which bio sometimes does depending on feedstock.