Disco 2 TD5 fuel issues / starting issues fix

discomania said:

As said it has done this sort of thing since it was 2 years old. Not only does it go when started but it goes like stink (remapped). It will start fine again once started within say an hour or so, overnight not a chance in hell.

It is fuel, we know this 100%. No doubt about it.

I'd read the post above fully, the story explains it all really, a skim read will not furnish you with the full picture.

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I did read it, you left out the part where it starts up if left less than an hour, you made it sound like it wouldn't start at all after turning off. And yes, fuel would be an issue, hence the crank position sensor which controls when the ECU fires the injectors. It's something to think about if it doesn't start when you put the system back together.

Well it works. The thing starts like it should, yet never did!

The fuel system was always relatively speaking noisy, that noise has gone which is being attributed to the re-positioning of the check-valve in the correct location.

Next - brake lines!

Three weeks later, and the Disco starts like a brand new TD5 Disco 2 was supposed to be.
In the eight years from 2004 to 2012, that Disco NEVER started as well as it does now, and often enough the brute wouldn't start at all unless towed.

Discomania has explained in great detail what was done, and why. I am quite sure he is correct.

A combination of two things seems to have made the difference :
1. fitting the duckbill valve in the correct place (REAR INNER - Low pressure feed) and
2. fitting a drop pipe to the barbed nipple under the top of the fuel pump to take the fuel-air return to below fuel level.

Next stage is fitting all new brake pipes and flexies if anyone wants the job for £££s.

As a matter of interest, my Disco has suffered its fair share of bulged wheelnuts, due to rusting inside the stainless steel covers. Two weeks ago I ended up with three useless bulged wheelnuts, but Discomania saved the day by getting three new ones for me. So . . . using a 1mm cutting disc, I sliced the covers and prised them off. Then I cleaned up the solid steel wheelnuts underneath, which have a lovely big hexagonal bit that is exactly 25.4mm across the flats, ONE INCH AF. Yesterday, (on my birthday) arrived a 1" AF socket courtesy of Discomania. This is a perfect fit. It is VERY tempting to de-cap all the wheelnuts.

CharlesY

Not only fixed, but you're back... Hi Charles

This non return valve you mention in point 1 confuses me a bit as most of the landys I've worked on, don't have them anyway

CharlesY said:

Three weeks later, and the Disco starts like a brand new TD5 Disco 2 was supposed to be.
In the eight years from 2004 to 2012, that Disco NEVER started as well as it does now, and often enough the brute wouldn't start at all unless towed.

Discomania has explained in great detail what was done, and why. I am quite sure he is correct.

A combination of two things seems to have made the difference :
1. fitting the duckbill valve in the correct place (REAR INNER - Low pressure feed) and
2. fitting a drop pipe to the barbed nipple under the top of the fuel pump to take the fuel-air return to below fuel level.

Next stage is fitting all new brake pipes and flexies if anyone wants the job for £££s.

As a matter of interest, my Disco has suffered its fair share of bulged wheelnuts, due to rusting inside the stainless steel covers. Two weeks ago I ended up with three useless bulged wheelnuts, but Discomania saved the day by getting three new ones for me. So . . . using a 1mm cutting disc, I sliced the covers and prised them off. Then I cleaned up the solid steel wheelnuts underneath, which have a lovely big hexagonal bit that is exactly 25.4mm across the flats, ONE INCH AF. Yesterday, (on my birthday) arrived a 1" AF socket courtesy of Discomania. This is a perfect fit. It is VERY tempting to de-cap all the wheelnuts.

CharlesY

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As a matter of interest, have you tried moving the duck bill to the front inner fitting, as this is where mine is and my Disco starts on the button. I suspect this is also where all the others are fitted that are out there in D2's that have one fitted.

Cheers

Hello, needing some advice re-starting a D2 TD5. I had to drop the fuel tank to get to the high pressure hose. Did that got it all back together (i thought) renewed the fuel filter, purged, started 1st time (yippee). ran it on idle/low revs for 15 mins. Turned engine off cleaned up for about an hour, started again 1st time idled for 10 mins then drove for about 2 mins before it starts juddering and cuts out. Now wont restart.
I am now parked on the main road, not outside someone else's house (I dont have a drive) with only a couple weeks MOT so I need to get this moving. Havent had any major engine issues in the three years I've run it - so I'm not prone to thinking this is oil in loom, CPK, injectors etc (unless i have knackered these somehow in the process).
1) it strikes me that fuel isnt getting to the engine. Can anyone advise how best to trace this? I assume I could undo pipes at the filter an turn on pump, but dont know which ones would highlight the fault and/or make the problem worse.
2) Fuel pump makes a noise and I can hear gurgling at the pump. I removed the filter and it was full.
3) A secondary, but perhaps related issue, is that the fuel gauge isnt reading normally, should be 1/4 tank but just showing min. I think I have trapped the pump harness.
4) on 2nd inspection it was clear I hadnt sealed the pump to the tank properly. Fixed now but could air getting into the tank cause an air-lock in the pipes?
5) if any of the breather pipes got trapped could that be a cause?
6) Given that she is very old and the trouble I had grinding off the nuts to drop the tank there is of course a huge possibility that a load of crap gut sucked into the pipes.
I appreciate there are still a few things for me to check, but I'm outside a strangers house, the battery only lasts a shortish while before I have to recahrge it and i dont want to be spraying diesel all over the road. So any pointers on how to get to the root of this would be very gratefully received.
Cheers, Andrew

If you take the temp sensor out of the fuel pressure regulator and connect a pressure gauge in there you should have a reading of 4 bar, which a td5 needs to run correctly.also td5 needs a strong battery

Thanks for quick reply. I'm looking for an adapter for my pressure gauge to do that but, provided the injectors aren't screwed, I don't think there can be any fuel getting forward, so not sure of next steps after that. Thinking I will drop the tank a little and make sure loom and pipes are free then disconnect each fuel pipe in turn and point them into a bucket starting with LP feed - just not sure if the system needs to be closed in order to pump?
Do you know if the Air Bleed filter got clogged/jammed would that result in a complete non-start or just rough running?
Cheers.

If your sure you’ve definitely got fuel in the tank and can hear the pump running you could try to purge the system of air, you’ll need a fully charged stong battery, turn ignition on then pump accelerator 5 times in quick succession, the ecu will then take over and run through a purge, takes around 4 mins, if it starts then you have air entering system.

Battery charging overnight and I'm taking a spare. 6 weeks of sunshine and today chucking it down!!

Dropped the fuel tank to free up the pipes, they seem OK. Hooked up 2 batteries and let it purge for 10mins. Wouldnt start.
Managed to get an adapter from Pirtek which fits the fuel temp gauge. Zero pressure, but a very low flow of fuel getting pumped forward.
Checked fuel flow at the filter. Both LP in/out pumping a decent amount of fuel.
Checked voltage over pump 11.5v (bat reading 12.5v), so not great but sufficient I would have thought.
So, I think that brings me down to 3 possibilities(?):
1) Blockage or kink in the HP(green line forward). Tank now has quite a bit of fuel in it and siphoning off is a messy pain. Trying to work out how to check the fuel flow at the connection on the driver side next to chassis without making a huge mess?!?
2) High Pressure phase of fuel pump is kaput. Only way I can think of checking that is disconnecting the green line at the pump itself and turning on. Again worried I will spray fuel everywhere?!?
3) It is drawing in a lot of air from somewhere. But in that case wouldnt there also be fuel leaking from somewhere? I cannot see any leaks.
Am I missing something. Any thoughts or advice most welcome.
Cheers, Andrew

My money is on nr 2., quite common

sierrafery said:

My money is on nr 2., quite common

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Don't have a replacement fuel pump this weekend so took out the current one cleaned the filters (dirty but not treacle) and blew down the high pressure line (some resistance but flowing through). Reassembled and now get 1.5bar at the FPR. This drops back when the pump isn't energised.
Also took off the air bleed valve . When not present 0 bar at the head. So airbleed valve is working of a fashion. Even if a bit clogged you would just expect it to take a bit longer to bleed!? Checked pipes and breathers and they are all free and no leaks.
Have I eliminated everything? Is it now just a new pump?

Ok, new pump installed and FPR pressure straight up to 4 bar. BUT I can hear squirting and squishing up around the FPR even after 10 mins. I don't know if that's normal? (Don't normally have my head in there without the engine running). No leaks that I can see.

andybdemille said:

Ok, new pump installed and FPR pressure straight up to 4 bar. BUT I can hear squirting and squishing up around the FPR even after 10 mins. I don't know if that's normal? (Don't normally have my head in there without the engine running). No leaks that I can see.

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It’s normal to hear it squishing while it purge’s itself of air, don’t normally hear it with the engine running.

Cheers Johnlad. Got battery back on charge and will let it purge a while longer before starting.