Td5 flywheel conversion - tightening instructions

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Ploughman

Member
Posts
29
Location
8°43' E - 52°1' N
Hi there!

I'm currently doing a conversion to single mass flywheel on a Defender.

Is there anyone experienced regarding tigthening instructions/recommendations?

Securing bolts delivered with solid flywheel are much shorter than the ERR6581 for original dual mass flywheel PSD 103470.

ERR 6581: M12x1.5 - 50 mm long
New bolts: 33 long

Tigthening ERR6581: 40 Nm plus further 90 degrees.

Dealer told me to refer to LR manual.

To my understanding it makes no sense to tighten a short bolt that way.

I'm having serious doubts regarding screw breakage....
 
Most people seem to end up going back to a dual mass flywheel after a very short time,they are apparently horrible to drive....
 
On my chevy I just thread locked them, twisted them in tight with ratchet then cranked to 65ft/lbs in a staggered pattern

Not sure what that converts to in NM and degrees but might be close. They use stumpy bolts too
 
eightinavee said:
Most people seem to end up going back to a dual mass flywheel after a very short time,they are apparently horrible to drive....
Click to expand...

I can vouch for that as I tried... ended up by buying a dmf after 1 week when I got bored of all those vibrations ... so now I have a useless massive flywheel in the garage... the worst investment I've ever made
 
Ploughman said:
Hi there!

I'm currently doing a conversion to single mass flywheel on a Defender.

Is there anyone experienced regarding tigthening instructions/recommendations?

Securing bolts delivered with solid flywheel are much shorter than the ERR6581 for original dual mass flywheel PSD 103470.

ERR 6581: M12x1.5 - 50 mm long
New bolts: 33 long

Tigthening ERR6581: 40 Nm plus further 90 degrees.

Dealer told me to refer to LR manual.

To my understanding it makes no sense to tighten a short bolt that way.

I'm having serious doubts regarding screw breakage....
Click to expand...

I work for LuK clutches and can state with confidence (and lots of evidence from garages across the uk) that dmf conversions are a waste of time and money. Dmf's are there (as stated) to damp the vibrations from the crank to the gearbox, removing something that has cost manufacturers millions in development costs is a bad idea. We have seen broken cranks, driveshafts and gearboxes.
If the dmf has failed then there are only a handful of reasons, usually
1) overloading the clutch when taking up drive (racing starts for example dumping the clutch at high revs)
2) poor driving (similar to above, snatched gear changes)
3) overheating which causes the grease to boil and the bearings/bushes to melt
4) an engine management issue that causes vibrations to be transmitted through the crank and into the dmf, effectively shaking the torsion springs to breaking point. This last one is more common on VW's with the PD (pump injector engines) when the injectors get worn.
Try and find out why it's failed before condeming them as a poor design. We have a failure rate of less than 1 in 1 million, and each batch is tested to over 15k rpm at the factory to make sure it meets the required OE standards.
 
Is there any upgraded clutch kit for the TD5 without going for a single mass flywheel?

My 110 slips the clutch the odd time when being worked very hard. Had a new DMF, clutch and pressure plate fitted two years ago so it shouldn't be too bad but with the big jump in power, big wheels and Disco Tbox, I reckon it's only a matter of time before the clutch gives up the ghost.


Even if you could get a pressure plate with a higher clamping force as my clutch pedal is nice and light anyway due to a upgraded spring.

quattro6999 said:
I work for LuK clutches and can state with confidence (and lots of evidence from garages across the uk) that dmf conversions are a waste of time and money. Dmf's are there (as stated) to damp the vibrations from the crank to the gearbox, removing something that has cost manufacturers millions in development costs is a bad idea. We have seen broken cranks, driveshafts and gearboxes.
If the dmf has failed then there are only a handful of reasons, usually
1) overloading the clutch when taking up drive (racing starts for example dumping the clutch at high revs)
2) poor driving (similar to above, snatched gear changes)
3) overheating which causes the grease to boil and the bearings/bushes to melt
4) an engine management issue that causes vibrations to be transmitted through the crank and into the dmf, effectively shaking the torsion springs to breaking point. This last one is more common on VW's with the PD (pump injector engines) when the injectors get worn.
Try and find out why it's failed before condeming them as a poor design. We have a failure rate of less than 1 in 1 million, and each batch is tested to over 15k rpm at the factory to make sure it meets the required OE standards.
Click to expand...

Obviously haven't made many for the VAG so then! :p

I agree though, on engines that aren't the most balanced to start with such as 5 pot diesels etc a DMF is a great idea and saves gearboxes a huge amount of hardship.


On the other hand, on stuff like bmw petrols such as E36, E46, 328s, M3s, M5s etc that I work alot on especially for people using them for occasional trackdays, drift days or full on track/drift cars... The DMFs are the first to get the bin as they sap so much power with absorbing energy and being heavy.
 
DaveM-sport said:
Is there any upgraded clutch kit for the TD5 without going for a single mass flywheel?

My 110 slips the clutch the odd time when being worked very hard. Had a new DMF, clutch and pressure plate fitted two years ago so it shouldn't be too bad but with the big jump in power, big wheels and Disco Tbox, I reckon it's only a matter of time before the clutch gives up the ghost.


Even if you could get a pressure plate with a higher clamping force as my clutch pedal is nice and light anyway due to a upgraded spring.



Obviously haven't made many for the VAG so then! :p

I agree though, on engines that aren't the most balanced to start with such as 5 pot diesels etc a DMF is a great idea and saves gearboxes a huge amount of hardship.


On the other hand, on stuff like bmw petrols such as E36, E46, 328s, M3s, M5s etc that I work alot on especially for people using them for occasional trackdays, drift days or full on track/drift cars... The DMFs are the first to get the bin as they sap so much power with absorbing energy and being heavy.
Click to expand...

Sachs were OE for VAG although now it's us :) we make the clutch for the 7 speed DSG box. Anything that is uprated from standard (performance wise) will kill a dmf as they are then operating outside their tolerances. Track cars etc not so bad to have converted as they are (for want of a better word) abused more than the typical family hatchback.
It may be worth having a word with some of the landy tuners such as bell auto services as I am sure one of them do an uprated paddle clutch.
 
I've got a Rakeway in my D2, can't say I get particularly bad vibrations... There's some gearbox chatter in neutral but that's to be expected.

Anyhow, the 2 stage tighten is supposed to help make sure the flywheel is centralised.

You can just skip it and tighten to 110NM if you haven't got an angle gauge.
 
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