TD5 does not fire up

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RobertJ

RobertJ

Member
Posts
39
Location
Netherlands
Hello,
Asking for a friend. He has a ‘03 TD5 Defender which does not want to fire up.
Starter is turning, and does start when spraying starter fluid into the EGR.
I am thinking towards the fuel pump or the injectors like the o-rings or the injector wiring loom due to oil.

What are your first thoughts and things which might be the problem? Would love tho hear the best approach!
 
Once started with easy start does it continue running or stop. If it continues to run it could be the battery is just not spinning it over fast enough, a TD5 requires a good healthy battery to get it running, also check fuel filter and for any fuel/air leaks.
 
Last edited:
Bit more info might be useful, i.e. was it running prior to not starting etc.

I'd be checking the fuel pump is operating correctly (high / low pressure systems) and as you mention check for oil in the wiring loom initially.

The TD5 fuel system is lightly different to your typical arrangement, the pump has a high and low pressure side, plenty of info on previous threads. The pump is a fecking pain in the ass to gain access to in the defender.
 
When it starts with lighter fuel does run fine afterwards? If so will it start and run OK if you bump start it?
If there is a poor crank posItion signal then the ECU will not allow the engine to start or to continue running. So an engine that will run fine once it is going probably has a serviceable crank position sensor system. However, there are a couple of conditions within the starter that can interfere with the signal whilst the starter runs. If the solenoid contacts are deeply pitted they can arc and cause interference, this can be intermittent and get gradually worse - a £10 kit can fix this. Or there can be an issue with the windings themselves - new starter needed. suitable diagnostic will confirm a poor crank position signal if that is the fault, but sadly is not much help if it is the fuel system.
 
Sorry for the late reply..

Starter, alternator are new and battery is in good condition. It has a powerful start but does not fire. When it does start with a spray can it dies afterwards.
We have not tried to tow start it as it is on the driveway and it is a pain to get it back there if it does not run:confused:

Is there a way to test if the fuel system is drawing air? The fuel pump is a pain to replace indeed but it does make a different sound than my 90 Td5, it is a bit more like you blow through a straw in a glas of milk.
We did already run a couple of bleeding cycles but with no succes.

A time ago there was a new fuel line fitted from the tank to the filter, this is fixed on the filter with a hoseclip. Was done by the previous owner.

Any thoughts let me know! I will replace the injector loom tomorrow probably.
 
Those symptoms could either be due to a fuel issue or a bad crank position signal (I know I keep harping on about it but it is the only sensor that will cause the ECU to prevent engine start). If the starter is new and it will only run briefly with a spray can then if it is the crank position system at fault then it is properly dead - either sensor, broken wiring or a dodgy connector. You could try a continuity check of the wiring from the connector to the ECU red plug. The details of which terminals to check is in the RAVE.
If fuel then I would start by swapping out the air bleed valve in the filter housing to make sure that the self-bleed system is working. Then connect a pressure gauge at the temp sensor in the fuel pressure regulator. With the pump running you should be seeing 4 bar. If not the pump is definitely faulty.
 
Tank you, we have ordered a new CPS just in case and Will change the air bleed valve, good one!

the ‘RAVE’, what is it again, can’t remember.

Does the temp sensor hole has a specific threat for the meter, as we have to buy one.

Regards,
Robert
 
RAVE is the name given to the Land Rover Service Guide. Do a search on here and you will find a link. It comes as an .iso file, and you mount it as a virtual DVD.
Once you remove the temp sensor from the FPR you will be left with a threaded hole. An automotive liquid pressure set should have an adapter that will fit.
 
Ok thanks.

I only find the following pressure tester, no screw adapters on here, only quick connectors, probably to connect to the hose. Would this be sufficient? If not is there another way to proceed without testing the pressure?

7-A205355-7-DC1-4-EC1-B56-E-665-A1-D2-A95-B5.jpg
a>
 
Ok so a little progress... It fires!
I have removed the fuel filter housing, cleaned it completely and painted it. The plastic filter/air hole piece was dirty and not much are came through with the compressor, so I left it out. With full throttle, after some seconds cranking it did fire and ran quite good. She did not die also. After turning the engine off, it started immediately when turning the key.

A day later I tried to start and this went not with a flick of a turn like it did, but had to start with the procedure, ign. On, off 15sec, on for 3min, full throttle, cranking. Then after a bit of cranking it did fire.

Any idea what this could be? When it runs it does not die, and drives perfect. I am leaning towards the pump.
I did not went to get a pressure tester, as the fuel pump and injector seals, loom are going to be changed anyway.
 
Well done in getting it going. Sounds like air in the fuel, if the pump was dodgy it would be unlikely to drive perfectly. My guess is that it is reluctant to start until the air has been cleared and is then fine until turned off, at which point air collects again. The injector seals are the most common culprits, so replacing them may well clear it. If you have removed the air bleed valve then you are preventing the system from self bleeding and making the problem worse. They are only a few pounds, so you should replace it asap.
 
AA28C7E3-E649-49DB-AAF2-486557FEEF47.jpeg
This morning it started right up.
I mean this white little plastic thing (picture).
When this is not there there can be going much wrong is it? As it just lets air through but now with a bigger hole. Some people also cut off the filter or enlarge the hole.
Correct me if I’m wrong of course;)
 
The white plastic thing is the air bleed valve mounted on the front left of the filter housing. Without it any air in the system will remain there and not be bled out. You may have a non-return valve in the rear left of the housing, but many TD5s do not and it does not appear critical.

This guy seems to think the air bleed valve also has a non-return function that can affect the start. Not sure if that is true of not.
 
Si Click said:
The white plastic thing is the air bleed valve mounted on the front left of the filter housing. Without it any air in the system will remain there and not be bled out. You may have a non-return valve in the rear left of the housing, but many TD5s do not and it does not appear critical.

This guy seems to think the air bleed valve also has a non-return function that can affect the start. Not sure if that is true of not.
Click to expand...

as the filter head attached to the vehicle air bleed valve is rear outer which is white marked pipe a pump housing,one way valve front inner which is return from engine
 
I thought the white plastic thing/air bleed valve only lets air with a little diesel through due to the small hole and the little filter in it protects the hole from being blocked. So I thought when you leave it out just more air/diesel can pass through and does not affect anything, but apparently it does?
Will order a new valve including brass nipple as I can’t find just the white plastic valve.

There is a non return valve indeed, this seems fine.

jamesmartin said:
as the filter head attached to the vehicle air bleed valve is rear outer which is white marked pipe a pump housing,one way valve front inner which is return from engine
Click to expand...

correct, left front is the air bleed valve and right back is non return.
 
RobertJ said:
I thought the white plastic thing/air bleed valve only lets air with a little diesel through due to the small hole and the little filter in it protects the hole from being blocked. So I thought when you leave it out just more air/diesel can pass through and does not affect anything, but apparently it does?
Will order a new valve including brass nipple as I can’t find just the white plastic valve.

There is a non return valve indeed, this seems fine.



correct, left front is the air bleed valve and right back is non return.
Click to expand...

air bleed is rear outer,non return valve front inner
 
RobertJ said:
I thought the white plastic thing/air bleed valve only lets air with a little diesel through due to the small hole and the little filter in it protects the hole from being blocked. So I thought when you leave it out just more air/diesel can pass through and does not affect anything, but apparently it does?
Will order a new valve including brass nipple as I can’t find just the white plastic valve.

There is a non return valve indeed, this seems fine.



correct, left front is the air bleed valve and right back is non return.
Click to expand...
if you leave air bleed out an amount of fuel will just return to the tank and not back to the pump to be pumped to the engine,it would half the fuel to the pump
 
From RAVE:
An air bleed valve is located in the bleed line connection. The valve comprises a restrictor and a membrane. The
restrictor has a small hole in its centre. This allows air and fuel to pass through the membrane. Air can pass through
the membrane, but once the membrane is wet with fuel it will not allow further fuel to pass through.

The practical upshot of that is that the system automatically removes air from the fuel system through a bleed line to the tank through the air bleed connection on the fuel pump. Because fuel cannot pass through, fuel does not flow back to the tank and is immediately present when you want to start.

As to where it is, I think we are all saying the same thing but using different terminology. Looking at the filter housing from the wheel well. Left points to the rear of the vehicle and on each side one connector is closer to you than the other (I called those front and rear, James more correctly uses outer and inner). The air bleed is on the left hand side pointing towards the rear of the vehicle and in the closest connector to you.
 
jamesmartin said:
air bleed is rear outer,non return valve front inner
Click to expand...

As Si Click said we do mean the same, ‘Outer, I called left and front right.

Si Click said:
From RAVE:
An air bleed valve is located in the bleed line connection. The valve comprises a restrictor and a membrane. The
restrictor has a small hole in its centre. This allows air and fuel to pass through the membrane. Air can pass through
the membrane, but once the membrane is wet with fuel it will not allow further fuel to pass through.

The practical upshot of that is that the system automatically removes air from the fuel system through a bleed line to the tank through the air bleed connection on the fuel pump. Because fuel cannot pass through, fuel does not flow back to the tank and is immediately present when you want to start.
Click to expand...

It does make sense very much this way.
The air hole was probably blocked so it didn’t want to fire up. Removal of the bleed valve sorted that problem but left us with the problem of having a lack of fuel for the initial start after relieving pressure from the system when standing for a while.

Is there a part number for just the bleed valve without the brass fitting?

The fuel pump does make funny noises, a bit like it is running the air bleed procedure (5 times pressing the accelerator pedal), not a steady buzzing sound. Might this have to do with lack of the bleed valve?

I have to say, great help guys, much appreciated!!
Cheers!
 
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