TD5 Cuts out whilst driving

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S

Sii7

Member
Posts
16
Location
Somerset
Yesterday my TD5 Defender 90 wouldn't start. It was turning over fine but wouldn't 'catch' if you know what I mean. I noticed that the orange engine management light and the glowplug light weren't coming on, but the red oil, battery & handbrake light were lit as normal. Feeling this was some sort of electrical problem I fiddled about with all the cables/terminals under the bonnet. After a while the lights were lit once again and I was off! 10 miles later I slowed to a stop to allow someone to turn off the road and I cut out. No amount of fiddling would get it going so I towed it back. This morning the orange lights are still not lit, so I have messed about with the connections and relays under the drivers seat. Within 2 seconds of messing, lights are lit again. It starts fine and has been running stationary for a couple of hours, on and off, lights are now lit every time I turn the key. Problem I have is I can't be that lucky, can I ?? Has anyone else had a similar problem? At the moment I don't really want to drive it in case it conks out again. I should say its a 2005 TD5 90.
 
I have had this problem on my 2001 110 TD5, I traced it back to the feed for the yellow fuel pump solonoid shorting where it goes through the bulk head behind the clocks ! Tell tale sign besides blowing the 30amp fuse were the fuel pump was'nt working and the temp gauge shoots up into the red (even when cold). It is a fact that there are some dodgy TD5 wireing looms about !
Funny thing is that my Discovery Td5 will run and drive quite happily (but wont rev over 3000rpm) with a full tank of diesel and no fuel pump but my Defender won't even start if the fuel pump is not working ??
 
Yes, TD5 wiring looms are prone to giving you problems. Land Rover (or whoever made their wiring looms) must have had a cheap batch of wire sometime sin the early 2000s. The insulation tends to go brittle and crisp and the conductors are quite stiff and brittle too, or at least they are after ten years or more. I replaced the engine loom (the 'red plug' one) on mine early last year, and the new one felt much more supple.

I've also had cutting out problems when my injector loom multiplug has oil in it, so that's worth a look too, if you haven't already done so.

My TD5 will run (albeit slowly) with the fuel pump disconnected too. I think sometimes, once the column of fluid is established, the injectors can scavenge just enough to keep the engine turning from what's sitting in the fuel gallery in the head, and if there are no leaks they'll just keep pulling more up from the tank.
 
Same symptoms as mine a few weeks back..
Ended up being the ECU, have checked everything under the bonnet. Ouch! £645 for a LR replacement! plus fitting and a bit programming.
 
check your fuel pump and main relay connections. I had this last week.
a wiggle of the relays and everything would start working again. Another wiggle and it would die.
 
gazman said:
check your fuel pump and main relay connections. I had this last week.
a wiggle of the relays and everything would start working again. Another wiggle and it would die.
Click to expand...
That could be my problem as it only showed up after the vehicle was stripped, is the relay in the panel between driver and passenger?
Next week I may get into this in a big way And make a thread
Check ECU plug
Check oil level for diesel contamination
Change injector seals
Check pressure regulator
Remove filter housing, clean and look at bleed valve, non return valve
If that is not enough then I will take out the tank check for contamination check the filter mesh on the in tank pump.
Buy a RAV4
 
under the seat in mine was a black relay and two yellow relays.
I moved mine to get then from under the seat as I was having problems and I have to unbolt my seats as they are non std LR.
I was having problems anyway but noticed when I was testing them that if I moved them the problem appeared and disappeared .
I just cleaned and tightened the connections and the earth's on the car too. No problems since.

when you turn the key all the relays under the seat should click. The black one is for the glow plugs, and the yellows are the main relay to the ecu and the fuel pump.
 
gazman said:
under the seat in mine was a black relay and two yellow relays.
I moved mine to get then from under the seat as I was having problems and I have to unbolt my seats as they are non std LR.
I was having problems anyway but noticed when I was testing them that if I moved them the problem appeared and disappeared .
I just cleaned and tightened the connections and the earth's on the car too. No problems since.

when you turn the key all the relays under the seat should click. The black one is for the glow plugs, and the yellows are the main relay to the ecu and the fuel pump.
Click to expand...
Thanks, make that a starting point along with the ECU plug
 
I've also had problems starting in the past when my starter motor was spiking and confusing the crank position sensor.
You don't have a diesel leak from the fuel pressure regulator or anything for me the back of the engine onto it do you? The crank position sensor will stop it dead in its tracks and stop it from catching on the starter motor as the injectors won't get a signal.
I found mine would bump start but wouldn't start off the starter
 
Had a leak last year, I changed the regulator, and one of the fittings leaked (they have a small o ring on them) but I fixed it,.
I had the won't start problem which, seemed to be fixed when I did the air bleed valve, and injector washers, then I had a problem where it started ran for about 2 seconds and cut out, it would re start after many tries while blipping the throttle at the same time, last week it just died three times while driving, same re start story with turning it over and blipping the throttle.
I suspect fuel, when I picked it up last week I could hear the pump whining, so I purged it, when it cut out I could hear the pump running but not whining like it had air in it.
Something very interesting in the last few posts here yesterday:
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/bennehboys-d2-adventure.254514/page-38
 
I wouldn't waste my time with the
raywin said:
That could be my problem as it only showed up after the vehicle was stripped, is the relay in the panel between driver and passenger?
Next week I may get into this in a big way And make a thread
Check ECU plug
Check oil level for diesel contamination
Change injector seals
Check pressure regulator
Remove filter housing, clean and look at bleed valve, non return valve
If that is not enough then I will take out the tank check for contamination check the filter mesh on the in tank pump.
Buy a RAV4
Click to expand...
I wouldn't waste my time and money with half of those things you mention.
I did my seals and washers, but I had a screaming fuel pump. Ditto the fuel pump and regulator. If your pump isn't screaming and the oil level isn't going up I wouldn't worry yet.


Get your self a guage and connect it to the temperature point on the fuel pressure regulator (loads of info if you Google it) that way you can test it all as changing the tank pump by removing the tank is a ball ache. I did mine 1st time at Xmas. 2nd time I cut a hole in the floor! My screaming pump was caused by a buggered fuel filter housing. I changed everything you mentioned!

Do you hear the pump purge air when you turn the key on? if so pump the throttle pedal 5+ times and put it into the purge mode and once it's finished see if it starts. If not you can then try starting it with your foot flat to the floor. It is the method for starting after major mtce or running out of fuel. If it still won't go I doubt it is fuel.
 
sorry you replied whilst I was typing. sounds like you could have a fuel problem and or a electrical one. Good luck
 
gazman said:
sorry you replied whilst I was typing. sounds like you could have a fuel problem and or a electrical one. Good luck
Click to expand...
Thanks, it's so easy to just start going mad changing this and replacing that, i can't drive at the moment I'm recovering from an operation, but sick of sitting arround, so I will fall into the classic dilemma of doing more than one thing and not being sure what fixed it, but I am fed up with this fuel system, and I an going to go through it to check it out (might miss taking off the tank if possible),
Gave it 20 mins this morning, the yellow and black relays seemed firm but I pulled them out and cleaned the contact blades, spay a bit of wd 40 on the shoes.
But the bloody red plug has oil in it again! Clean with brake cleaner and left it, think I will do it a few times over the next days
 
oil at the red plug. I think you have found your problem. Get a new injector loom it takes 20 mins to fit and is easy peasy
 
gazman said:
oil at the red plug. I think you have found your problem. Get a new injector loom it takes 20 mins to fit and is easy peasy
Click to expand...
Yes have to eliminate this. Fitted a new one last year expected more from it, pulled the loom plug on the front of the cylinder head and pushed some tissue into it and there was little sign of oil, strange.
Going to clean it a few times with brake cleaner, and order an new one.
 
gazman said:
oil at the red plug. I think you have found your problem. Get a new injector loom it takes 20 mins to fit and is easy peasy
Click to expand...

And can cause many many different problems, my Disco would'nt start first thing in a morning before 15 to 20 seconds of cranking but then started and ran fine all day ! Changed the loom and jobs a good un !
 
Here's he exhaustive (and expensive) list I put together on my journey to solve this very problem. I put it together to a) keep track of what I've done and b) for a friend who has same issue. The very cheap answer to my problem was a dodgy (corroded) pin in the ECU BLACK plug

TD5 Turning over but not starting

Drivers seat
- Oil in ECU (contact cleaner)
- Relays under drivers seat (faulty or corroded - check crimps - yellow is fuel pump)
- Bad ECU earth (run new from battery)
- Check for chaffed loom going over transfer box (from centre seat/cubby)
- Crank Position Sensor (top of bell housing - check sensor/cable/connector)
- Purge fuel system again
- ECU plug connections (corroded or dry joint)

Engine bay
- Inertia switch on bulkhead (check connections)
- Injector plug (fos of engine - contact cleaner)
- Check wiring where it passes engine for melting/chaffing
- MAF sensor
- Starter motor connections
- Starter motor brushes (kit off eBay or recon)
- Injector harness
- Injector copper washers and o-rings

Alarm
- Disable immobiliser (nanocom)
- Cable from immobiliser to ECU (grey-green on Red ECU connector)

Other
- New battery (hankook)
- New fob/battery (lucas 3TXD and program)
- Kick it
 
Well, it's been a week now and i've done a good 200 miles with no problems. All I did was pull out the relays, clean contacts & twist spade connectors a bit (to get a better fit). It might be in my head but, there was 'cammy' sound about 50% of the time whilst driving before. This would disappear as the revs increased but it seems to have completely gone now. I'm wondering if the badly connecting relays were affecting other things as well. Retneprac, I wouldn't mind betting that cleaning the relays would have sorted your problem. When I plugged in, there were no faults showing. I bet they never even changed the ECU!! Had a very similar problem on my Freelander whilst on holiday, they had my pants down then!! £450-00 and not fixed, £50-00 when I got back home and sorted. I'll never trust a garage I don't know again.
 
Sii7 said:
Yesterday my TD5 Defender 90 wouldn't start. It was turning over fine but wouldn't 'catch' if you know what I mean. I noticed that the orange engine management light and the glowplug light weren't coming on, but the red oil, battery & handbrake light were lit as normal. Feeling this was some sort of electrical problem I fiddled about with all the cables/terminals under the bonnet. After a while the lights were lit once again and I was off! 10 miles later I slowed to a stop to allow someone to turn off the road and I cut out. No amount of fiddling would get it going so I towed it back. This morning the orange lights are still not lit, so I have messed about with the connections and relays under the drivers seat. Within 2 seconds of messing, lights are lit again. It starts fine and has been running stationary for a couple of hours, on and off, lights are now lit every time I turn the key. Problem I have is I can't be that lucky, can I ?? Has anyone else had a similar problem? At the moment I don't really want to drive it in case it conks out again. I should say its a 2005 TD5 90.
Click to expand...


Try this. I think I've figured it out!
Ok guys I've never written on a forum in my life. So here goes. I think I have finally found the answer to the td5 cutting out syndrome and I thought I would share it with you. My Td5 that I've had since new for the last 10 years would randomly cut out any where. Motorway Street going up a hill etc. No mechanic or test could sort it. I've even permanently wired the pump to run but still no hope. 1000s spent on bull**** that I didn't need. ECU sent away! Perfect! New pump etc.
After many hours of reading about fit new fuel filters, fit new pumps, fit this fit that. Cable from here to there. Check earth straps etc. Try this instead!

Remove the yellow relay! It's probably loose! Next time it cuts out and you have no fuel pump whine, the water needle goes way over to the right. Wiggle the relay. If the engine light ect comes on you've cracked it! If this is so remove the yellow bugger and get yourself a small flat tool. On all four female connectors just move them 1/2 a mm inward replace the relay. Start the engine and go to where you were going to go.
The reason why I came up with this idea is thus, unless landrover start gold plating all the connections this will always occur. Every time that yellow relay draws power it corrodes the metal parts of the relay and holder. Slowly but surely, heat etc from relay use can also over the years expand the parts of the connecters. If the relay isn't getting the correct Amps/voltage it won't switch on or off. I'm won't bore you any longer with this but please let me know if it works.

Parts I've replaced
Relay.
ECU checked
New original landrover pump
New cables
And £1000s in landrover dealerships and other shops
Good luck guys I hope this works for you
 
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