TD5 coolant and ACE issues

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Beaste

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Hello

Recently bought a 99 TD5 ES privately with a new MOT last week. Was towing this week when the coolant warning light came on driving down the motorway, was going to pull over when I could (engine temp was okay) to check it but went out after a couple of minutes so carried on journey. Went to check coolant before leaving to come back (about two hours later so engine still slightly warm) and it looked low, however when I opened the cap pressure was released and the level rose to the arrow... is this normal? Had a look today with a cold engine and the level is about an inch below that indicated by the cold arrow. LR has recently had a new water pump fitted, could this be anything to do with it?

Secondly, when I had the bonnet up today I noticed the ACE reservoir is totally empty, yet there are no warning lights on and it feels okay to drive. Thoughts? Don't know how long it's been like this as my bro/vendor checked the fluids before driving it back when we bought it and don't actually know if they checked the ACE as well as the PAS so am getting a bit worried that it's been driven a fair way with no CE fluid, but why no warning light?

Also, the SRS light is on sometimes, something to do with the airbag system? It's a 99 reg if that means anything

Any advice, thoughts would be greatly appreciated. We had a 300tdi before, something to be said for a basic one!
 
Can't advise with coolant, but as far as ACE goes:

Does the ACE light light up red then orange at startup?

If it doesn't, the sneaky bastard you bought it off has pulled the LED off the dash circuit board (that's what happened to mine :-( ). Alternatively, it might have been turned off with nanocom.

It's not great news for you though - it means that your ACE pump might be on the way out from being driven with no ACE fluid (it is the pump's lubricant also), as well as the corroded pipe (almost certainly!) that has caused you to lose the ACE fluid in the first place.

The pipes are expensive and a pain in the ass to fit. I would strongly consider having a quiet word with the seller.

David
 
Thanks David, haven't looked for the ACE light on the dash - I'm assuming if there's no fault it goes red, orange and then goes out altogether? I'll start it up tomorrow and see if there's a light there.

It was a private seller, do I have any come back? Although he deals a bit on the side as I know he has dealer insurance but selling a couple of cars as a side line
 
Beaste said:
Thanks David, haven't looked for the ACE light on the dash - I'm assuming if there's no fault it goes red, orange and then goes out altogether? I'll start it up tomorrow and see if there's a light there.
Click to expand...

The ACE light's SHOULD illuminate when you turn the ignition on and then go out after a couple of seconds ... that is what it SHOULD do...

You may only have a slight leak and the level has only just gone below the reserviour (Coz TBH, The reservious itself doesnt exactly hold much fluid)

My first step would be check the Banjo bolt on the ACE pump is done up tight and not leaking... just involes taking the air box out, pretty simple.
 
So if the ACE light comes on when I turn the key and then goes out, hopefully is a minor leak. . . however if no ACE light comes on then I've been conned?
 
Beaste said:
So if the ACE light comes on when I turn the key and then goes out, hopefully is a minor leak. . . however if no ACE light comes on then I've been conned?
Click to expand...


In A nutshell, Yes.

However, if no ACE light illuminates upon turning on the ignition DO NOT use the Disco as you will cause more damage.

Keep us posted, and good luck ;)
 
Greeting.
If the ACE light is working on ignition, first step is to fill up the reservoir with fluid and keep it under surveillance..............the red light will turn on only if the system is loosing pressure......

If you have enough patience read this(from RAVE):

The system is electrically and hydraulically operated with all operations controlled by an ACE ECU located behind the glovebox in the passenger side footwell. The ACE system comprises front and rear torsion bars and actuators, two accelerometers, ECU, hydraulic pump, valve block and a fluid reservoir.
The ACE system gives improved vehicle handling and suspension characteristics and is active for both on and off-road driving. This is achieved by hydraulic actuators applying torque to the front and rear torsion bars in response to lateral forces sensed by accelerometers. The ACE system prevents body roll with cornering forces of up to 0.4 g. From 0.4 g there is a progressive increase in body roll but significantly lower than a passive system. A passive system will have a progressive increase in roll angle as soon as cornering forces are applied and will have a higher roll angle than the ACE system for the same cornering force.
The ACE system can also detect if the vehicle is driven off-road. If off-road conditions are detected the ACE system operation will be reduced or completely disabled at a speed of 25 mph (40 km/h) or less.
Lateral acceleration of the body is sensed by two accelerometers and signals are transmitted to the ECU. The engine driven hydraulic pump supplies a constant hydraulic flow to the valve block. Two directional control valves are solenoid operated by the ECU and these supply fluid to the applicable side of each actuator to apply an equal and
opposite force to the torsion bar. In operation the ACE system maintains the attitude of the vehicle body when cornering.
The ACE system uses a semi-synthetic hydraulic fluid which is the same as the fluid used for the PAS system. The total capacity of the ACE system is 1.62 litres (0.42 US Gallons).
CAUTION: The ACE hydraulic system is extremely sensitive to the ingress of dirt or debris. The smallest amount could render the system unserviceable. It is imperative that the following precautions are taken.
l ACE components are thoroughly cleaned externally before work commences;
l all opened pipe and module ports are capped immediately;
l all fluid is stored in and administered through clean containers.
In the event of an ECU or hydraulic failure the system will fail safe to a 'locked bars' condition. The 'locked bars' condition will allow the torsion bars to operate in a similar manner as conventional 'passive' anti-roll bars. Prolonged cornering forces will allow a progressive increase in roll angle due to hydraulic leakage through the actuators and
valve block. Failures will be relayed to the driver by the illumination of the ACE warning lamp in the instrument pack.
Faults are recorded by the ECU and can be retrieved using TestBook.
When the ignition switch is moved to position II, the warning lamp will illuminate for two seconds to check functionality.
The warning lamp functionality can also be checked using TestBook.
TestBook must also be used to perform a bleeding procedure after maintenance operations have been performed to ensure that complete system bleeding is performed. Trapped air in the system can seriously reduce the system performance.
Fluid reservoir
The moulded plastic fluid reservoir is mounted on the left hand side of the engine compartment on a bracket which is attached to the inner wing. The reservoir is dual purpose, being divided into two separate chambers; one for the ACE system and one for the PAS system. Each chamber has its own filler neck and cap and is identified by moulded lettering on the reservoir adjacent to each filler.
A non-serviceable filter assembly is fitted in the base of each chamber. The filter is made from fine stainless steel mesh which is moulded into the body of the reservoir. The filter removes particulate matter from the fluid before it is drawn into the hydraulic pump.
Upper and lower fluid level marks are moulded onto the reservoir body. The capacity of the ACE reservoir chamber to the upper level mark is 0.5 litre (0.13 US Gallon).


Have fun it's pretty tricky:doh:
 
Thanks, turned the key on the LR this morning and the ACE warning light doesn't come in at all. Can only assume now that the ACE system is buggered somewhere along the line hence leaking and we've been conned by the warning system being disabled. To say I'm not a happy bunny would be putting it mildly.

Any thoughts on costs to repair an ACE system that's been driven on empty and potentially killed? Would it be cheaper to have it put onto springs?
 
Dont know what the total cost would be but the 2 rear ace pipes and 2 litres of pas fluid has just cost me £219 from a LR dealer:eek::eek::eek: Could not find any cheaper alternatives as far as the ace pipes were concerned.

The rear pipes were fiddly to fit, routing them around the chassis was a swine as did not want to snap £200 quids worth of pipes so was probabily being a bit gentler than i needed to be :(

You often see the ACE pumps on ebay and go from anywhere as little as £50 to £150 BUT its a bit of a lottery as to getting a good/crap one.

You may be lucky and your pump is ok start by checking the pipes out first.

Someone posted one here that it cost them £360 at a garage to get his ACE remoced and standard roll bars and drop links installed and that it felt no different to drive

If i hace any more major problems with my ACE then thats the route i will be taking.

Good luck in your quest
Brian
 
Beaste said:
Thanks, turned the key on the LR this morning and the ACE warning light doesn't come in at all. Can only assume now that the ACE system is buggered somewhere along the line hence leaking and we've been conned by the warning system being disabled. To say I'm not a happy bunny would be putting it mildly.

Any thoughts on costs to repair an ACE system that's been driven on empty and potentially killed? Would it be cheaper to have it put onto springs?
Click to expand...


Plug it in and see what the tester shows................if tha car is working normally it seems that the ACE is disabled "by hand"......don't bother with the springs it has nothing to do with the ACE..........nothing is as black as it looks first
 
Thanks for all the well wishes, keeping my fingers crossed it will turn out to be straight forward - well, as straight forward as it can ever be with a Td5!
 
sierrafery said:
Plug it in and see what the tester shows................if tha car is working normally it seems that the ACE is disabled "by hand"......don't bother with the springs it has nothing to do with the ACE..........nothing is as black as it looks first
Click to expand...

So if ACE has been disabled by hand. . . is this an issue? I have no intention of chucking the car round corners as I only use it to tow my horse trailer...

It feels normal to drive, although was vile with the trailer on the back, very light steering and a nasty inclination to start snaking at above 50, although this may be because the tow bar is too low, it looked okay, but haven't got round to checking the height now I've got the official measurement from Ifor Williams
 
Hang on. Don't get issues confused ;-)

Air springs (SLS) and the ACE system are two independent things.

You *cannot* drive around for long with an ace pump still fitted and no fluid as it will seize.
If your ACE pump has been removed and replaced with an idler, then you're OK.

David
 
Beaste said:
So if ACE has been disabled by hand. . . is this an issue? I have no intention of chucking the car round corners as I only use it to tow my horse trailer...

It feels normal to drive, although was vile with the trailer on the back, very light steering and a nasty inclination to start snaking at above 50, although this may be because the tow bar is too low, it looked okay, but haven't got round to checking the height now I've got the official measurement from Ifor Williams
Click to expand...

You need your ACE working...or it will be bye bye pony & cart
 
Hi, I had the exact same thing happen to me. 2 days after buying my discovery a mate who also has a TD5 came round to take a look. We opened the bonnet to check fluid levels and much to my horror the ACE was completely empty. On closer inspection we found out the ACE system had been completely removed. The ace pump was gone, the ani roll bars had been replaced and the pulley had also been replaced. The strange thing was when we plugged in his nanocom the ace hadn't been disabled in the computers (we then disabled it though). I also didn't have any ace warning lights on the dash and never found out why. To be honest I was quite glad to find out I didn't have ACE as I have heard it can be expensive to repair if it goes wrong (although it is a very good system).
 
I complained that the light was on on my dash when I test-drove my 2001 TD5 ES and asked the guy to fix it before I bought the car.

Picked it up, seemed fixed, no light. (Didnt notice the light didnt illuminate on starting either...)

A day later I had chimes going off with no light to indicate why. Eventually found pool of ACE fluid under the rear axle and no fluid in the reservoir. Examining ACE pipes found them bodged with sealant and gaffer tape. Checking the dash revealed the LED had been prised off the ins trument cluster by the guy's 'mechanic'. Thoroughly unimpressed. Forced him to provide me with a new instrument cluster and did the ACE pipes myself.

Front ones are getting pretty rusty and have got to be due a replacement at some point. Ick.
David
 
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Okay, I'd been fed some mis information re springs and SLS, is there an easy way of telling if the ACE pump has been removed and replaced by an idler? It's going into my local independent LR specialists next week and won't be driven in the mean time but as you can imagine I'm getting a bit stressed out by it!

Would I be correct in saying that ACE is basically a superior anti roll system? Basically replaces the anti roll bars and drop links? Is it possible for someone with admittedly very little knowledge to be able to look and see which system is currently in operation? I do have a friend with a low spec Td5 which I would imagine doesn't have ACE so I'd be able to compare what I'm looking at.

PS thanks very much for all the help
 
Your getting things confused my freind, the SLS or springs has nothing to do with the ACE system at all, either or both can be fitted to Disco 2's.

Your "theory" on the ACE system is pretty much correct, it basically uses an additional hydraulic pump to make it work, the anti roll bars have hydraulic rams on the front and rear, you can easily see the front one under the drivers side front wheel arch.

If you have ACE your power steering reservoir (pass side) will have 2 caps, and when the engine is running up to temp, fluid will be bubbling around in both chambers. If the ACE has been removed and an idler fitted, the very outside (pass side) pulley will be significantly smaller than the Aircon compressor pulley which is the one the plastic trim is moulded "over" the top off.
 
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Beaste said:
Also, the SRS light is on sometimes, something to do with the airbag system? It's a 99 reg if that means anything

Any advice, thoughts would be greatly appreciated. We had a 300tdi before, something to be said for a basic one!
Click to expand...
My advice on ACE - if not already done get it disabled.
On your other questions, coolant level might vary if you have an airlock in the system, otherwise it shouldn't. Top it up to the correct level. If it goes down, then 1) you have a dodgy pressure cap (say a prayer and try this first), 2) there's a leak - probably radiator but look around the pipework for coolant stains - 3) head gasket is on way out, 4) you have a cracked head. I'm afraid 4) is not unlikely on this engine.

SRS light - with ignition OFF find the big yellow connectors under passenger seat and behind glove compartment and fiddle about with them. It's usually a poor connection in one of these.
 
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