Td4 power and turbo options

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I'm toying with the idea of getting my turbo machined to fit a bigger compressor wheel on my 52 plate freelander. I want to do this because i know there Isn't space to fit a bigger one. Eventually ill be getting a remap and a bigger intercooler.

Has anyone had any experience doing any of these things? I've heard that the turbo modification can really help, and that with the intercooler and remap should make a big difference.

Any thoughts?

Thanks
 
I've heard that turbotechnics.com are the guys to speak to about this kind of thing. It's a bmw motor so there's surely a lot that can be done I'd think.
 
best pic I've got for size comparison:

Far left is stock Rover 75 turbo (M47R engine, but only a wastegated unit), far right is the BMW unit.

VERY capable turbo, capable of far in excess of 200Bhp. Not sure if anyone's bolted one onto a freelander M47R engine, but simple enough in a Rover 75
 
A lot of blowed engines will be present soon... Another guy who want to put bigger turbo to Td4 :p .
First of all : What for? It's your every day car, or toy car? If it's a toy go for it and do freaky tweaks ;) . If it's a day car, go a and do remap. Should be happy with a result.
All of this is not a P&P jobs, one mod require another . Compressor wheel, intercooler, injectors, piping, temperature and boost monitoring (good to know when is thin red line, before melt your pistons and turbo), oil pressure and temperature monitoring (turbo likes good pressure and temperature), oil cooler (depend on location and temps), oil grade and class change (10W60/5W60 oils) , egr remove, exhaust mod, lift fuel pump replace (5 bar instead 2.4 bar), fuel pressure sensor harness, brakes mod, maf sensor mod/replace.

Bigger IC is nice mod - hard to fit in to pre facelift, but possible. But don't work well with stock piping 2" and 3" ID. Manual injectors can be replaced with auto injectors. Then go to proper tuner with dyno and make a good map for it. Depend on budged it will have 140/160 bhp with 325/360 nm. (don't go to high, or you hurt DMF, IRD).

But first of all, before any mods. Make sure that your MAP sensor is good and work properly, your engine breather is clean, egr is in good working order, VNT in turbo works fine (solenoid and all pipes are fine) and you got fuel pressure harness replaced for new type. Maybe you don't need a remap and any mods :p
 
I was worried about the stress of a bigger turbo, i might just adjust the wastegate actuator to boost the...boost. I already have the ronbox and I've been set on the intercooler and intake piping modifications for a while now. I've cleaned all sensors and i think everything is working well because it is in no way slow. The EGR has been bypassed. Whats the problem with the fuel pressure harness? I haven't heard of this before. I don't seem to be having any issues with this, i assume the cold start would be bad. Mine cranks once and starts with no issue.

I haven't actually checked the turbo and honestly, it worries me. It all seems fine and i haven't had an issue with it but it could be 146000 miles old. I don't know what to look for on it and I don't know if it would be worth just replacing it at this point, before anything has a chance to break in it. Any ideas?
 
This is why I love my L series...

Slap on an turbo you can physically MAKE fit, SDi injectors, remap... and see what it'll do. Zero worries about the internals/etc
 
i might just adjust the wastegate actuator to boost the...boost.
Click to expand...
Nope... you can't because there is no wastegate in Td4. This is VNT turbo, its controlled by ECM. so nothing to adjust.

Whats the problem with the fuel pressure harness?
Click to expand...
Moisture ingress. Cause erratic read to ecm. LR make a small bypass directly to ECM box. Cold start is bad in "last way" of sensor and harness.

There is no reason to replace good working turbo. If it generates proper boost (24/25 PSI on full boost), and there is not too much oil in system - no reasons

True, L-series is much easier to tune :p
 
Winu said:
Nope... you can't because there is no wastegate in Td4. This is VNT turbo, its controlled by ECM. so nothing to adjust.
Click to expand...

Course it is, i didn't put 2 and 2 together, ill have to get a boost gauge and check it. there is some oil in the intake but its not in excess. After the boost is checked i guess its a case of new intercooler and intake piping with a remap. My japspeed intercooler arrived from 2fast2cool on ebay today after i ordered it yesterday. cant wait to fit it :D

Winu said:
LR make a small bypass directly to ECM box.
Click to expand...

Could you possibly link me to this? What are the other symptoms of it going bad?

Thanks
 
here's something from the makers of the Synergy tuning boxes ..
text mentions it works with ecu controlled vnt turbos ..

"Finally, mechanical boost controllers cannot be used with vnt turbos - they only work with non ecu controlled turbos, so the DGB1 is the answer."

http://www.tuning-diesels.co.uk/our-range/digiboosters/

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

er no .. i've not tried one myself .. nor seen any posts regarding it here at LZ ..
( no doubt could have missed a post .. or two :)
and no .. have not checked with them to see if it's compatible with the TD4 / M47r ..
 
hd3 said:
er no .. i've not tried one myself .. nor seen any posts regarding it here at LZ ..
( no doubt could have missed a post .. or two :)
and no .. have not checked with them to see if it's compatible with the TD4 / M47r ..
Click to expand...

D3savage said:
Updated:-
Have just fitted Rons Digibooster ....... to compliment the intercooler. This increases the boost from around 15psi to around 19psi. So fitted this as well as Rons recmended ZX1 friction reducer. Result.......yes tangeble, throttle response is better and there is deffinately a torque increase - as well as bhp. The effect was definately not as large as the intercooler I rate that as around 15% - this booster gives you around 7%.

When driving - you definately use less throttle ...... my synergy is maxed out on all settings ..... orginally produced some smoke on hard acceloration ..... this reduced with the intercooler and was further reduced with digibooster. Digibooster seems to make a difference from 1600rpm with the max effect at around 3000rpm.

The result is, this old freelander that has covered nearly 150k sails along - I have one test hill....orginally I had a 5 series 177bhp with 254lbf ..... this would do just over seventy up the test hill. My freelander now scrabbles to 65 mph just ........ so I recon she is producing around 165 bhp and around 260lbf........ not bad.

Mpg I am regularly getting 42mpg and have had just under 45mpg. I have just got her through the dreaded mot - she passed .... with a notification re a weak handbrake - not bad for a highly modded de-cat landy!!!

My next mod is the pierburg maf ......... will keep you posted.
Click to expand...

https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/td4-large-intercooler-fitted-phew.233108/

D3savage has a digibooster in his Td4. Looks like a good review.

I emailed tuning diesels and i got this in reply

"You can save yourself a lot of work & the £65 by just getting a mild remap. My oppo at energy tuning ltd had a TD4 for a few months and we fitted a Synergy 2 and maf and then he remapped it to see 170bhp and masses of torque AND negligible smoke which made me think the turbo and intercooler were adequate.

The box and remap each gave around 140 bhp, with the box being better on torque.

We've done many remap + ronbox and because they work in different ways, the results are amazing and you still have control over the power and torque by adjusting the box."
 
I emailed tuning diesels and i got this in reply

"You can save yourself a lot of work & the £65 by just getting a mild remap. My oppo at energy tuning ltd had a TD4 for a few months and we fitted a Synergy 2 and maf and then he remapped it to see 170bhp and masses of torque AND negligible smoke which made me think the turbo and intercooler were adequate.

The box and remap each gave around 140 bhp, with the box being better on torque.

We've done many remap + ronbox and because they work in different ways, the results are amazing and you still have control over the power and torque by adjusting the box."
Click to expand...

interesting info :)

was half considering adding an ecu remap to my ronbox at some stage ..
and concluded 'energy tuning ltd' might be the better place to go .. so as to get the remap to work hand-in-hand with the ron-box
would probably do that intake mod that Winu and another LZresident has done to their td4 first ..

would ideally like disc brakes on all 4 ..

though .. the ronbox with the pierburg-maf ( and egr delete ) on their own has given me all i really want in terms of driveability
as is .. when i intialy got the ron-box .. due to go-pedal enthusiasm .. my new pirelli tyres didn't last long ..
and after spending £££ on some new michelins i moderated my driving habits somewhat :) ..
more bhp for a td4 hippo vs.1 doesn't interest as much as it once did ..

talking to a bwm 320d owner today .. he rekons the m47r be mechanicly safe up to about 180 bhp ( the 320d being at 150 bhp in standard form )
( how accurate that might be .. i don't know )
 
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would ideally like disc brakes on all 4 ..
Click to expand...
What for? FL is not quite heavy and fast to use 4 discs. If you fit it, all brake balance went out. This is a serious mod and need another brake balance regulator in system, and it can cause an conflict with EBD. A good, uprated front brakes do the job.

he rekons the m47r be mechanicly safe up to about 180 bhp
Click to expand...
True, but transmission and final drive in FL don't.

Could you possibly link me to this? What are the other symptoms of it going bad?
Click to expand...
Sometimes it will run smooth, sometimes rough,hesitation , "Gaps" in smooth acceleration.
Cure is a simple wiring loom YMQ503320 , new fuel rail pressure sensor with o'ring.

The loom goes directly to ECM box, you need to drill small hole in a box, and replace two pins from ECM connector. Everything is in
LTB00052, and it's posted somewhere on LZ
 
I had my old Td4 remapped whilst I still owned the Ronbox. I fitted the Ronbox for a hour after the remap. It definitely was a lot faster, we are talking a couple of seconds off 0-60. You just had to touch the throttle to work out there was much more torque right down just above tickover. I didn't keep it on for insurance reasons and wanted to preserve my auto box. I had oversize tyres fitted as well, which will have slowed it down.
 
In a week or two mine will have a remap, maybe i can try to two dyno tests with Ronbox, RB+Remap , and of course stock one...
Just need to find a ronbox for td4 (got only for L-series)
 
@Winu .. re:
would ideally like disc brakes on all 4 ..

What for? FL is not quite heavy and fast to use 4 discs. If you fit it, all brake balance went out. This is a serious mod and need another brake balance regulator in system, and it can cause an conflict with EBD. A good, uprated front brakes do the job.
Click to expand...

not quite heavy ? .. :)
maybe not so much .. just feels heavy after driving an FL2 (manual & auto) a couple of times
brakes on the FL2 felt far better .. maybe a tad sensitive ( had to watch my foot pressure ) .. maybe it's the vacuum brake servo thingy ?
and the steering were lighter on the FL2 even with tyres being at the same pressure as mine ..
and suspension was much smoother on bumps 'n it didn't roll in corners like mine ..
( think i compared vehicle weights and found they were both .. fl1 & fl2 .. were nearly the same ..
( without rechecking .. i could be wrong ..

yeah re 4 disc brakes .. been looking thru DieseDo's post .. noticed the brake balance issue ..

i guess uprated front brakes are the way for me ..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

he rekons the m47r be mechanicly safe up to about 180 bhp

True, but transmission and final drive in FL don't.
Click to expand...

understood .. :) .. figured that bhp might stress the various bits in everything connected between the flywheel .. and road wheels ..

hypothetical at moment .. but lets say a remap was added to a ronbox giving 170 bhp ..
lets say the 170 bhp were the rb set at 5 (bosch maf) or 10 ( pierburg maf ) .. and peak bhp were at the standard 4k rpm ..
in theory ( i.e. not having emailed mr roverRon etc ) .. such a top bhp at 4k rpm .. would add some bhp to the lower rpm range ..
so then .. one could set the ronbox to 8 ( p. maf ) .. *that's high tourque / medium power* ..
so response under 2500 rpm might be greater .. were as .. **over 2500 rpm might be less .. with top bhp being less than 170 at the 4k rpm**

(** peak bhp being similar to ronbox without added remap )

( * ronbox manual sais for the setting 'torque' refers to under 2500 rpm .. 'n 'power' to rpm above that ,,
( again .. that's without double checking the text .. .. it only being a mouse-clik away .. but i gotta go 'n let the dog back in now ..
 
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thanks for all the helpful info

hd3 said:
@Winu .. re:


not quite heavy ? .. :)
maybe not so much .. just feels heavy after driving an FL2 (manual & auto) a couple of times
brakes on the FL2 felt far better .. maybe a tad sensitive ( had to watch my foot pressure ) .. maybe it's the vacuum brake servo thingy ?
and the steering were lighter on the FL2 even with tyres being at the same pressure as mine ..
and suspension was much smoother on bumps 'n it didn't roll in corners like mine ..
( think i compared vehicle weights and found they were both .. fl1 & fl2 .. were nearly the same ..
( without rechecking .. i could be wrong ..

yeah re 4 disc brakes .. been looking thru DieseDo's post .. noticed the brake balance issue ..

i guess uprated front brakes are the way for me ..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



understood .. :) .. figured that bhp might stress the various bits in everything connected between the flywheel .. and road wheels ..

hypothetical at moment .. but lets say a remap was added to a ronbox giving 170 bhp ..
lets say the 170 bhp were the rb set at 5 (bosch maf) or 10 ( pierburg maf ) .. and peak bhp were at the standard 4k rpm ..
in theory ( i.e. not having emailed mr roverRon etc ) .. such a top bhp at 4k rpm .. would add some bhp to the lower rpm range ..
so then .. one could set the ronbox to 8 ( p. maf ) .. *that's high tourque / medium power* ..
so response under 2500 rpm might be greater .. were as .. **over 2500 rpm might be less .. with top bhp being less than 170 at the 4k rpm**

(** peak bhp being similar to ronbox without added remap )

( * ronbox manual sais for the setting 'torque' refers to under 2500 rpm .. 'n 'power' to rpm above that ,,
( again .. that's without double checking the text .. .. it only being a mouse-clik away .. but i gotta go 'n let the dog back in now ..
Click to expand...

thats a pretty good idea, if its too powerful then it can be restrained with the settings on the ron box
 
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