Freelander 1 TD4 master cylinder

Avocet1 · Oct 7, 2020

Hi All, It's getting hard to engage 1st and reverse on occasions. I need to push the pedal all the way to the floor to do it. Some months ago, I had a look in the master cylinder, topped it up and bled it, but the problem has returned. Previous owner had the clutch done, but can't remember if they had the slave cylinder done at the same time. Can't see anything leaking out of the bellhousing though.

Does anyone have any recommendations for master cylinder brand, please? They seem to vary considerably in price. Are the cheap ones generally reckoned to be more trouble than they're worth?

Nodge68 · Oct 7, 2020

Avocet1 said:
Does anyone have any recommendations for master cylinder brand, please? They seem to vary considerably in price. Are the cheap ones generally reckoned to be more trouble than they're worth?

Only genuine LR master cylinders are worth fitting.

Alibro · Oct 8, 2020

Nodge68 said:
Only genuine LR master cylinders are worth fitting.

Plus one.
I fitted a cheaper aftermarket master and the engagement was on the floor afterwards, regardless of how much I bled it.
BTW the master only failed after the clutch was changed, it didn't seem to like being bled.
I can't imagine anyone stupid enough to replace a clutch without replacing the slave. They would need to be the worst mechanic in the country.

Avocet1 · Oct 8, 2020

Thanks guys, That's depressing! They seem to be about £200 (or about 25% of what my car is worth)! I notice there are LUK ones for about half that. Are they seriously no good?

Also, yes, I was wondering about bleeding. I understand they come pre-filled with fluid and there's some sort of "quick release" coupling near the bellhousing? How does that work?! There's a bleed nipple on the bellhousing end (I tried bleeding mine a few months ago, before I gave up on it), but are you even supposed to, if they're pre-filled? The top came off mine easily enough, and there was a sort of rubber bladder under it to absorb changes in fluid volume, but do the tops come off the new ones and are they just supposed to be filled with ordinary DOT 4 brake fluid, or something weird?

Avocet1 · Oct 8, 2020

Alibro said:
I can't imagine anyone stupid enough to replace a clutch without replacing the slave. They would need to be the worst mechanic in the country.

Oi! That's my sister you're talking about!

Well, she wasn't the mechanic, but she was the previous owner. She and her husband aren't really technical and were poor as church mice at the time they owned it. It was maintained on an absolute shoestring while they had it (which is why they just gave it to me) and the clutch was the last straw for them. After they'd paid for that, they'd had enough. They didn't know about mismatched tyres, the IRD oil had never been changed (and it had had water in it), they drove it with a mullered VCU for a while too. I've been slowly nursing it back to health, but its days are numbered, really. When the clutch went, I know they definitely didn't get the DMF changed, and they honestly can't remember whether the slave cylinder was or not. I'm going to take a punt on this master cylinder, but we only ever had the car as a stopgap towcar while Mrs Avocet couldn't drive. She's now getting close to buying another 4x4 and when she does, the Hippo will have to go. Pity, as I'd developed "feelings" for it. For all the bad press they get, (and I'll admit, it has its faults!) I think they're a better car than people give them credit for!

andyfreelandy · Oct 9, 2020

Avocet1 said:
Pity, as I'd developed "feelings" for it

I am convinced when you have worked on a vehicle, if you are that way inclined, you sort of build a relationship with it!! You know more about how it works, you gain a confidence that if it goes wrong you won't just sit at roadside looking stupid!!

All the vehicles I have built, rebuilt etc I really struggle to sell. Tis why I have so many!!!

Nodge68 · Oct 9, 2020

andyfreelandy said:
I am convinced when you have worked on a vehicle, if you are that way inclined, you sort of build a relationship with it!! You know more about how it works, you gain a confidence that if it goes wrong you won't just sit at roadside looking stupid!!

And me Andy, although I only get this connection with UK built vehicles or European vehicles with design quirks. I've no connection with any of our modern family cars at all, but give me a classic British vehicle, or something more modern with an LR, Rover or Jaguar badge, and there's a definite relationship. The Fiat's in the family are more of a love-hate relationship, I love to hate them, although they are ok to work on.

andyfreelandy said:
All the vehicles I have built, rebuilt etc I really struggle to sell. Tis why I have so many!!

I'm not keen on selling vehicles myself, although sometimes needs must.

Avocet1 · Oct 11, 2020

I don't know. I've always done all my own work, and some cars have endeared themselves to me, whilst others haven't. I once had a white Citroen BX diesel. I bloody HATED that car! Not sure why. it was a stopgap car that I bought when I resigned from a job that came with a car, so I needed some wheels. Like most Citroens, it was cheap because nobody likes them when they get older. I've had loads of Citroens before and loved the dearly (mainly DS and CX, it has to be said) but I just couldn't get to like this BX. Even putting fuel in it was a chore! I think it's because while it did nothing badly, it didn't do anything well, either.

My Alfa, on the other hand, I can't do enough for it!

So why this Freelander? Well, I think a lot of it is guilt! I believed the popular bull****. We didn't get a Freelander when Mrs. A was looking for a 4x4, because everyone said they were rubbish. Instead we bought an X-TRail. What a money pit that was! A big disappointment. This poor Freelander, on the other hand, has been horribly neglected for much of its life, and at 155,000 miles the engine is sweeter than the X-Trail's lump was at 55,000 miles! (Yeah, OK, I know it's a BMW engine). Also, I'd had to weld the X-Trail by 130,000 miles and 12 years old. Although I've had to do a bit of welding on this one too, it got to 150,000 and 19 years old before that became necessary. Wishbones and brake calipers were practically "service items" on the X-Trail, whereas as far as I can tell, all the suspension bushes on the Freelander are original. I know it has had one wheel cylinder though. The Freelander seems to be a really solid, sound vehicle, let down by stupid poor quality trim (headlining dropping down, sticky heater knobs, dashboard rattles, poor quality seat fabric) and poor quality minor components (door locks, window lifts, etc). Mechanically, it's quite durable.

People say that car owners judge their cars on whether they exceed or fail to meet, expectations. I had low expectations of the Freelander and it exceeded them. I had high expectations of the X-Trail and it didn't live up to them.

Alibro · Oct 13, 2020

Avocet1 said:
I don't know. I've always done all my own work, and some cars have endeared themselves to me, whilst others haven't. I once had a white Citroen BX diesel. I bloody HATED that car! Not sure why. it was a stopgap car that I bought when I resigned from a job that came with a car, so I needed some wheels. Like most Citroens, it was cheap because nobody likes them when they get older. I've had loads of Citroens before and loved the dearly (mainly DS and CX, it has to be said) but I just couldn't get to like this BX. Even putting fuel in it was a chore! I think it's because while it did nothing badly, it didn't do anything well, either.

My Alfa, on the other hand, I can't do enough for it!

So why this Freelander? Well, I think a lot of it is guilt! I believed the popular bull****. We didn't get a Freelander when Mrs. A was looking for a 4x4, because everyone said they were rubbish. Instead we bought an X-TRail. What a money pit that was! A big disappointment. This poor Freelander, on the other hand, has been horribly neglected for much of its life, and at 155,000 miles the engine is sweeter than the X-Trail's lump was at 55,000 miles! (Yeah, OK, I know it's a BMW engine). Also, I'd had to weld the X-Trail by 130,000 miles and 12 years old. Although I've had to do a bit of welding on this one too, it got to 150,000 and 19 years old before that became necessary. Wishbones and brake calipers were practically "service items" on the X-Trail, whereas as far as I can tell, all the suspension bushes on the Freelander are original. I know it has had one wheel cylinder though. The Freelander seems to be a really solid, sound vehicle, let down by stupid poor quality trim (headlining dropping down, sticky heater knobs, dashboard rattles, poor quality seat fabric) and poor quality minor components (door locks, window lifts, etc). Mechanically, it's quite durable.

People say that car owners judge their cars on whether they exceed or fail to meet, expectations. I had low expectations of the Freelander and it exceeded them. I had high expectations of the X-Trail and it didn't live up to them.

I bought two X Trails for SWMBO and had faults on both. Nothing terrible maybe £300 to £400 each time but I couldn't love the cars, very good drivers but soulless.
The Freelanders I've bought have had stupid faults like window regulators but nothing serious apart from the HG on a K series which I expected anyway and a clutch job which I know about before buying it. Both had the faults factored into the price when buying.

Avocet1 · Oct 13, 2020

Alibro said:
I bought two X Trails for SWMBO and had faults on both. Nothing terrible maybe £300 to £400 each time but I couldn't love the cars, very good drivers but soulless.
The Freelanders I've bought have had stupid faults like window regulators but nothing serious apart from the HG on a K series which I expected anyway and a clutch job which I know about before buying it. Both had the faults factored into the price when buying.

Hers was a Japanese-built T30 (not one of the later half-Renault cars). Electrically, the car was bomb-proof. By the time it did at 12 years old, all the toys worked and even the battery was original. The only electrical repair I ever did on it was to replace some wires that had fatigued near the tailgate hinge.

However, it got through brake calipers (the plating on the pistons came off - even OE ones!) and they seized, at a rate of knots. Also bottom front wishbones. Never had a minute's bother with transmission or 4WD system though, but generally drove it in 2WD.

The real disaster was the engine. Even when healthy it sounded like a canvas bag of spanners being kicked down a fire escape when it was cold! For some reason best known to themselves, Nissan had a stupid bit of "bike chain" going from a sprocket on the front cam to a sprocket on the vacuum pump. (Obviously, driving the vacuum pump directly was too simple)! That failed three times. (Or rather, the tensioner failed and the chain just flailed around). Then the timing chain went. It has two timing chains, a huge one from the crank, around the high pressure diesel pump and an idler, then another smaller one, from the idler and around the two cams. Absolute pig of a job!

Freelander 1 TD4 master cylinder

Avocet1

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Nodge68

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Alibro

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Avocet1

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Avocet1

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andyfreelandy

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Avocet1

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