TD4 (2004) Injector problem

Hi Folks,

I've a freelander TD4 automatic transmission and it's becoming harder to start every time it warms up. Followed up on a number of posts in this site and finally found the problem: a leak back test showed the first injector on the fuel rail is leaking back with ignition to key pos 1. When the car starts normal, on cold start, the fuel pressure rail diag reads around 30. When it doesn't start - but turns over attempting to start - the same reading drops to between 11-12.

I've read here that if leak back test fails the injector leaking needs replacement. Can I just ask first if anyone has successfully replaced the seals to the existing 'faulty' injector or is this typically an injector item problem causing the leak back where the whole unit needs replacing?

I've attached image of replacement options, will the injector shown work with my model...and is it a safe bet? Model is BMW engine TD4 Auto, year 2004, 112 BHP.

Many thanks,
Anthony

be intresting to see if a new injector fixes your problem I'm having similar probems with my 02 auto td4 starts first time every time from cold but does not always start when hot and up to temperature ive changed the camshaft sensor without any different results did a leak of test with key in position 1 and number 2 injector is weeping tho its not very severe I'm told the injectors in an auto are different from the manual not sure if its right or not and also that there a pig to get out

Hi Kevin, this chap makes it look easy

...only once engine is warm. The threads online say if any leak back happens then the injector needs replacing, because when hot the pressure can't build sufficiently to start. My diagnostic reader (iCarsoft i930) shows up to three times less pressure across the fuel rail when hot and when won't start.

I've tried everything else (cam, crank, air temp, engine temp, oil, refrigerant, prv) so finally the diagnostics is telling me the pressure just isn't there when hot. Could be the pump but unlikely only when hot??? Could be pressure regulator seal...but injector 1 is leaking back...I'm happy to plough on and replace it but wouldn't it be great if the injector only needs it's seals replaced! So hoping some experts on here could lend some advice that would be great.

Cheers,
A

but wouldn't it be great if the injector only needs it's seals replaced

Click to expand...

when it comes to excessive injector back leakage ..
*i think you'll find it's internal injector bits that need replacing*
i.e. nothing to do with those 'seals' in your o.p. pic

be info in the link in my sig. at bottom
***be vids about how the injectors work
and info on why and how various injector parts fail

( well .. here : https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/why-injectors-fail-and.291563/ )

*** sorry .. vids are on this post
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/please-help-im-pulling-my-hair-out.290073/#post-3591159

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Had same kind of problems lately.
Leak off showed number 1 a bit iffy, the rest were ok.
Took it to a small highly recommended local company to be put on the proper lap top, that claimed the pressure in the rail was all over the place
and probably the rail sensor.
Rail sensor tested and working fine so we pulled the injectors the bench test them.
Number 3 and 4 were totally shot, 1 and 2 were very poor. £100 each to rebuild them and £100 labour.
Motor runs like a dream now, but it made a joke of the first leak off test that showed number 1 as a bit naff.

If an injector is hard to pull, a trick that works is slacked the retaining clamp bolts and turn the key, let the compression lift it off its
seat, work a treat but only slacken the bolts a couple of turns.

Had similar to Niffty earlier this year. Leakback showed No1 was shot, but when replaced it just pushed the fault to No.2 - obviously all were worn to some extent and as each was replaced it just moved the backpressure to the next weak injector. Replaced all 4 and we're golden.

As regards getting them out, just make sure the engine is hot when you start and they should come out ok. Be careful taking the fuel connectors off though, as they are quite brittle and aren't available separately. You have to replace the whole length of hose and all the connectors and it's not cheap.

£100 for a referbed injector seems expensive

Are you taking the proverbial? Refurbed Injectors at that price are likely to be a bit hit or miss. Under £100 is gambling on getting something made of marzipan.

Thanks nifty, very helpful.
A

hd3 said:

when it comes to excessive injector back leakage ..
*i think you'll find it's internal injector bits that need replacing*
i.e. nothing to do with those 'seals' in your o.p. pic

be info in the link in my sig. at bottom
***be vids about how the injectors work
and info on why and how various injector parts fail

( well .. here : https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/why-injectors-fail-and.291563/ )

*** sorry .. vids are on this post
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/please-help-im-pulling-my-hair-out.290073/#post-3591159

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Click to expand...

NoDosh said:

Had similar to Niffty earlier this year. Leakback showed No1 was shot, but when replaced it just pushed the fault to No.2 - obviously all were worn to some extent and as each was replaced it just moved the backpressure to the next weak injector. Replaced all 4 and we're golden.

As regards getting them out, just make sure the engine is hot when you start and they should come out ok. Be careful taking the fuel connectors off though, as they are quite brittle and aren't available separately. You have to replace the whole length of hose and all the connectors and it's not cheap.

Click to expand...

Fair point to note, seems can't be a bad thing buying a new injector, as it is definitely injector related. Cheers,
A

hd3 said:

when it comes to excessive injector back leakage ..
*i think you'll find it's internal injector bits that need replacing*
i.e. nothing to do with those 'seals' in your o.p. pic

be info in the link in my sig. at bottom
***be vids about how the injectors work
and info on why and how various injector parts fail

( well .. here : https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/why-injectors-fail-and.291563/ )

*** sorry .. vids are on this post
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/please-help-im-pulling-my-hair-out.290073/#post-3591159

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Click to expand...

Thanks hd, very useful info.
A

NoDosh said:

Are you taking the proverbial? Refurbed Injectors at that price are likely to be a bit hit or miss. Under £100 is gambling on getting something made of marzipan.

Click to expand...

Injectors were rebuilt in front of me with genuine bosch parts. Kent injection services, Detling, Kent. 01622 736774

Now THAT is worth knowing. I take it these were your current injectors? Did they sonic clean them and check for cracks etc? If they did that for the price then I'll add them to the list of suppliers worth using.

ajfarrell said:

Thanks hd, very useful info.
A

Click to expand...

hd3 said:

when it comes to excessive injector back leakage ..
*i think you'll find it's internal injector bits that need replacing*
i.e. nothing to do with those 'seals' in your o.p. pic

be info in the link in my sig. at bottom
***be vids about how the injectors work
and info on why and how various injector parts fail

( well .. here : https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/why-injectors-fail-and.291563/ )

*** sorry .. vids are on this post
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/please-help-im-pulling-my-hair-out.290073/#post-3591159

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Click to expand...

Hi hd, I've ordered some Countralub 770, is it just a matter of applying a small amount (pea size) to each sensor connection block to all main components ...low and high pressure sensor connectors, all injector sensor connectors, and all earth points...where are the earth points? Also where is the low pressure sensor located (I understand the high pressure is passenger side end of fuel rail).

Any tips welcomed.

Cheers,
A

is it just a matter of applying a small amount (pea size)

Click to expand...

as much or as little as you see fit
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

( following from .. http://www.12voltplanet.co.uk )

Contralube 770 is a premium electrical contact protector in the form of a clear gel that prevents moisture ingress, oxidisation, corrosion, verdigris, contact wear and fretting corrosion and ensures your connections remain as reliable as the day they were first made. It is ideal for use in areas where connections are subject to harsh environments and is especially useful for the protection of marine electrics. It can be used on all types of electrical contacts: push-fit, screw, multi-way, battery terminals etc. and is also suitable as a weatherproof packing grease in terminal entry holes.

The gel itself is non-conductive so cannot cause accidental shorting and it does not increase contact resistance because it is pushed aside by the contacts when they are mated so that the micro 'peaks' of the contact surfaces touch, whilst the gel sits in the 'troughs' and around the outside of the contacts.

To use, simply apply to the terminals or contact surfaces to be protected ensuring full coverage. For multi-way connectors it can be applied directly onto the pins and into the sockets.
~
Features:
Prevents oxidisation and contact wear
Water and salt resistant
Does not increase electrical resistance of the contacts
Non-conductive so will not cause shorts (dielectric breakdown voltage - 10kV)
Does not evaporate so will protect indefinitely
Contains a UV dye to allow easy detection under UV light
Contains no silicone
Compatible with most plastics and all metals
Temperature range: -40 to +130ºC
~
If you need to remove Contralube 770 then we recommend the use of isopropyl alcohol (IPA) which is widely available.
Verdigris is a blue/green coating that appears on copper-based metals over time when exposed to the atmosphere.
Fretting corrosion is an abrasion of metals in contact caused by low amplitude vibrations or thermal expansion/contraction.
~~~~~~~~~~
( i've used it on computer display connectors ..
( just smeared it on the pins .. all working fine
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

where are the earth points?

Click to expand...

one is on the engine bay bulkhead .. high up .. drivers side .. near 'A' pillar ..
it's a small white plastic 'box' with a bunch of black wires going into it
i sprayed wd-40 inside down the wires .. then sealed the wire entry points with contralube
( now and again i'll spray wd-40 around the starter motor's electrical connections ..
( just to protect against water ingress ..

i'll have a look for info on the other earth points ( called earth 'headers' )
think i have them on a document ..
( watching some tele at moment )

where is the low pressure sensor located

Click to expand...

not sure :-/ .. but if i find out before someone else tells you .. i'll let you know

btw: so far i've only got to sensors electrical plugs/sockets .. etc .. that i could easily get to ..
maf sensor .. injector plugs .. fuel-rail-pressure sensor .. air-intake-temp sensor .. battery connections .. headlight bulb sockets .. tail lights .. 'ron-box' connections .. l.p. fuel pump when it were replaced .. 'n one or two other things ..
( replaced the nearside mirror glass recently ..
( used it on the mirror heating element spade connectors
( being open to the elements they looked very corroded ..

pic of 'earth headers' 'n connections ..
from the "FREELANDER 2004 MY ELECTRICAL LIBRARY" pdf file

i think you can now download the electrical librarys here:
http://www.hostgeni.net/docs/freelander-1-td4-diagnostic-fault-codes/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Freelander 2003MY Electrical Library Eng preview download
Pages: 603 , Size: 6.06 MB ,File Name: Freelander%20Electrical%20Library%20(2003).pdf
Electrical LibraryFREELANDER 2003 MY ELECTRICAL LIBRARYLRL 0585ENG Published by Land Rover Land Rover 2002All rights reserved.

Freelander 2004MY Electrical Library Eng preview download
Pages: 629 , Size: 6.42 MB ,File Name: Freelander%20Electrical%20Library%20(2004).pdf
Electrical LibraryFREELANDER 2004 MY ELECTRICAL LIBRARYLRL0652ENG Published by Land Rover Land Rover 2003All rights reserved.

Freelander 2002MY Electrical Library 3rd Edition Eng preview download
Pages: 598 , Size: 9.01 MB ,File Name: Freelander%20Electrical%20Library%20(2002).pdf
Electrical LibraryFREELANDER 2002 MY ELECTRICAL LIBRARYLRL 0342ENG(3) Published by Land Rover Land Rover 2002All rights reserved.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

where is the low pressure sensor located

Click to expand...

https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/2003-lp-fuel-sensor.166516/#post-1659705
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~