Strange noise from underneath - can't figure it out

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well, another quality couple of hours under the landy :(

I've done the UJ - I have done one of these before, so it all came back to me - not too technically challenging, but a bit of a PITA trying to get the old rusted circlips off.

Anyway, even though there's lots of play in the read wheel/hub, 99% of the symptoms have gone following the UJ replacement. I deffo got my moneys worth out of that one!

So, any thoughts on the last remaining problem - the play in the rear hub - would be very gratefully received, and might mean I have a few weeks of trouble free motoring!

Thanks you ALL so much so far for your help - needless to say, I'd have been stuffed without it.

FS
 
farmershort said:
well, another quality couple of hours under the landy :(

I've done the UJ - I have done one of these before, so it all came back to me - not too technically challenging, but a bit of a PITA trying to get the old rusted circlips off.

Anyway, even though there's lots of play in the read wheel/hub, 99% of the symptoms have gone following the UJ replacement. I deffo got my moneys worth out of that one!

So, any thoughts on the last remaining problem - the play in the rear hub - would be very gratefully received, and might mean I have a few weeks of trouble free motoring!

Thanks you ALL so much so far for your help - needless to say, I'd have been stuffed without it.

FS
Click to expand...

did you remember to bend the lock tab over BOTH the nuts? If not it could've just worked loose.
 
ratty said:
did you remember to bend the lock tab over BOTH the nuts? If not it could've just worked loose.
Click to expand...

yeah, bent it over both nuts

just to check with you, I did the adjuster nut up like it says in the workshop manual -

tighten to 50nm (which I took to be about as tight as you can get it with about 8 inches of leverage on a box spanner), then back it off 90 degrees, then tighten to 10nm. I took 10nm to be just tight with bow spanner + 8 inches again.
 
How much play have you got then in the rear hub ? ( wheel on and tight / grabbing the wheel top and bottom , pushing in and out ) .
Did you have play in the bearings all the way though the reassembly ??? or was there none to start with but have been getting worse ??
 
farmershort said:
yeah, bent it over both nuts

just to check with you, I did the adjuster nut up like it says in the workshop manual -

tighten to 50nm (which I took to be about as tight as you can get it with about 8 inches of leverage on a box spanner), then back it off 90 degrees, then tighten to 10nm. I took 10nm to be just tight with bow spanner + 8 inches again.
Click to expand...
might be worth trying with a torque wrench. it can make a difference
 
sypher said:
How much play have you got then in the rear hub ? ( wheel on and tight / grabbing the wheel top and bottom , pushing in and out ) .
Did you have play in the bearings all the way though the reassembly ??? or was there none to start with but have been getting worse ??
Click to expand...

It definately got worse - so I think that may point to the adjuster nut being too loose in the first place, and now the bearings have moved around a bit and means there's a bit of play in there. Does that sound right? When I first fitted the bearings, there was no play.

as for how much.. well, waaaaaay too much. grabbing wheel top and bottom, there was as much wobble as the caliper would allow. so perhaps half an inch backwards and forward at the top of the wheel..... lots.
 
farmershort said:
It definately got worse - so I think that may point to the adjuster nut being too loose in the first place, and now the bearings have moved around a bit and means there's a bit of play in there. Does that sound right? When I first fitted the bearings, there was no play.

as for how much.. well, waaaaaay too much. grabbing wheel top and bottom, there was as much wobble as the caliper would allow. so perhaps half an inch backwards and forward at the top of the wheel..... lots.
Click to expand...

I agree that it's likely to have been the adjustor nut too loose. Rather than torque to 10nm and then back off 90 degs I prefer to tighten or loosen mine by feel.
 
ratty said:
I agree that it's likely to have been the adjustor nut too loose..
Click to expand...

Either that or the bearing races where not hit in all the way home to start with !! .
Also you did put the spacer back in didnt you ???? ( thick washer below the adjuster nut , No 10 ) .........


HUBASSEM.jpg
 
Turned out it was just loose. I think the tapered bearings must have not been *quite* home enough. The races were fine, but obviously a few tight corners had worked loose the bearings. The garage nipped up the adjuster nut for me for no charge, so that's all sorted.

I think they perhaps didn't go in quite square or something, as I did up the adjuster nut as tight as I could before backing it off and tightening again.
 
aaarrrrggghhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ffs - it started doing it again today - the shaking I mean. I only picked it up from the garage last night. They said they road tested it, and it was fine. on the way home I thought I felt a slight wobble - but hoped for the best.

anyway, after driving to gaydon this morning, it's now proper shagged again! defender is trying to shake itself to bits, and it's hard to tell where it's coming from.

of course I rang the garage up and gave them an earful, then once I'd got back to a carpark in one of the other sites, I jacked up the rear wheel to see how much play had come back.....

well, bugger me - none. what's weird though, is that without the wheel jacked up, if I kick the top of it, it makes the same sort of judder noise as if it was driving along shaking.

Also, when driving along, if I'm doing a very slight right hand bend, or left hand bend, the noise goes away... I assumed this was because it wheel must be tilting slightly and removing the play???

because the whole car is shaking, the steering wheel judders too. Just in case, I checked the front wheels, and the other back wheel - jacked them al up and checked for play. There appears to now be a small amount of play in the front wheel, on the same side as the rear one I replaced. It doesn't seem to me to be enough to cause such a bit rattle though.


please please please make it go away!

I know it's very cheeky, but I'm in cov at the mo (at work) if there's anyone local who might be able to have a listen/feel and help me diagnose - it would be amazing

I really am reaching wits end.

Thanks

FS
 
sounds like your inner bearing is to loose a fit on the stub axle, it may at some time have seized onto the stub axle causing it to now be undersize
 
bmp42 said:
sounds like your inner bearing is to loose a fit on the stub axle, it may at some time have seized onto the stub axle causing it to now be undersize
Click to expand...

hi, thanks for the reply... I have changed both bearings on the rear hub - would this still be the case, even with new bearings? Would this not show any play in wheel when jacked up?

I assume the only fix is a new axle/stub axle?

Thanks... and apologies for the noob questions.
 
a slight differance in the stub axle to inner bearing will not show up by feeling by hand when jacked up, but with weight back on the road wheel will certainly show it up. Remove the hub assembley and try fitting the bearing on the stub axle - should be a nice slide fit with no play when "home".
 
In fact, thinking about it - if there is no play in the wheel, then how could it be the stub axle? That's not me saying you're wrong, I'm just genuinly asking as I can't figure it out...

It it's rattling/shaking the whole landy about going along the road, then there must be play in something, surely?

does a small amount of play in the front wheel/hub, make more rattle than a large amount of play in the rear wheel/hub? That said - I'm still not sure where it 'feels' like it's coming from


at what point do I cut my losses?!?! :(
 
bmp42 said:
a slight differance in the stub axle to inner bearing will not show up by feeling by hand when jacked up, but with weight back on the road wheel will certainly show it up. Remove the hub assembley and try fitting the bearing on the stub axle - should be a nice slide fit with no play when "home".
Click to expand...

ahhh, I see - thanks, that certainly does fit the one symptom I guess.

so perhaps the first job tonight it to strip is back again, and check for that play with the inner race on.

I wonder If I should buy a stub axle just incase???

Oh if It is the stub axle, and I renew it, is it ok to re-use the same bearings??? they've only done about 100 miles, but obviously 90 miles of them was with the wheel/hub rattling around like buggery...

thanks

FS
 
If the steering wheel is shaking, it is more than likely the front wheel causing it - which will go on a bend, as you say, when the slack is taken up. You can pack with grease, nip it and and test - then replace it.

Steering shake can also be caused by muddy wheels that are out of balance due to the mud - so if you get that in future, (after you have repaired the bearing) don't think your bearing has gone agin until you clean the inside wheels!

If the rear is gone, the body will shake, but the steering wont - you will just feel vibration through it.

It won't do any harm to check the rear bearings again, just to make sure you packed the grease in well and put the seal in the right way round etc. When you do bearings, and wind the nuts up by hand until tight, give the hub another push and wiggle to make sure they are well seated.

If you do have major wear on the stubb, such a discolouration or grooving/pitting then replace them.
 
cheers auto... I'm going to take it for another quick spin - to see if it's vibration or if it is actually shaking the steering. I dont think the noise/shaking stops as soon as you take up the slack in the steering, but rather once you're going round a very gentle bend - that might suggest rear then?

as far as the stub axle goes, I can't remember it being pitted or noticeably fcuked - but I was pretty knackered by the end of the job, so I might have just not noticed.

I might get the mrs to take the bus tomorrow, then I've only got to strip down the hub tonight, rather than strip AND reasemble for work the next day - that should take the pressure off a bit...
 
right - tool it out for a short spin. above 30mph, in a dead straight line, it's still trying to rattle itself to pieces. I had a passenger with me to help diagnose - he seemed to think he could see movement in the rear wheel when we were over 40mph ish, and the noise/shake was pretty severe.

I just rang my local 4x4 shop - AMD 4wd, and they didn't seem very keen to sell me a stub axle based on what I'd told them, which was wierd. They went on about diff pins and things I didn't know about, or he said it could be a broken wheel. He reckoned there should be play when it's jacked up.... oh well, I'll test the bearings on the stub tonight in any case.

just out of interest - can anyone explain to me how this will work, as the bearings are tapered from what I remember... wont that mean that if they're not in their housing, then there'll be lots and lots of play, co's they'll just keep falling over, as it were? does that make sense?

thanks

FS
 
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