Stolen 90's back!!!

On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 15:52:24 +0000 (UTC), "Neil Brownlee"
<[email protected]> scribbled the following
nonsense:

>This one has struck a chord with me. Not sure how many of you have met my
>daughter R'Vanneth. She's only 9, and is dealing on a regular basis with
>being virtually ignored at school. She is never late, she's intelligent,
>she's not disruptive, apparently she's a joy to have in the classroom.
>
>Sometimes she comes home, sighs deeply and asks why the "naughty" children
>get all the praise, the prizes (for working hard apparently) and extra time
>from the teachers. Obviously *WE* can understand what is being attempted -
>but it's being taken to such a degree that the hard workers are now being
>ignored because they are "always good". A little praise goes a long way -
>and for her to constantly work hard for some recognition and lose it to some
>little oik that hasn't sworn at a teacher for a week upsets her (and me).
>
>Society is changing. I'm not sure if it's for the good.

as a teacher I think it fair to say that you notice the "naughties"
first, because they are the ones who you get to know. The quiet kid
at the back who just goes along producing work without disruption,
just absorbing everything like a sponge takes a while to get to know,
and requires the least assistance with their work. A current think
tank proposes praising the naughties when they behave and getting
stuff right..... at the detriment of the quiet intelligent ones.....
--

Simon Isaacs

Peterborough 4x4 Club Newsletter Editor and Webmaster
Green Lane Association (GLASS) Financial Director
101 Ambi, undergoing camper conversion www.simoni.co.uk
1976 S3 LWT, Fully restored, ready for sale! Make me an offer!
Suzuki SJ410 (Wife's) 3" lift kit fitted, body shell now restored and mounted on chassis, waiting on a windscreen and MOT
Series 3 88" Rolling chassis...what to do next
1993 200 TDi Discovery
1994 200 TDi Discovery body sheel, being bobbed and modded.....

On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 16:29:13 GMT, SpamTrapSeeSig
<[email protected]> scribbled the following nonsense:

>[nb: strong views expressed - you've been warned!]
>
>In article <[email protected]>, Mother
><"@ {mother} @"@101fc.net> writes
>>I see too much removal of liberty in one sense or another an all too
>>little reward (and in this sense, 'reward' need not be directly
>>tangible in any commonly accepted sense).
>
>Kids have no concept of how hard they'll be hit by the real
>world of work. We face global competition with a vengeance now,
>India, China and Latin America too, and our current social
>structure is wholly unsustainable.
>
>The trouble is, every school wants to be a performing arts
>college (I exaggerate, but you get the drift), and nobody's
>telling the children just how tough it will be and how hard
>they'll have to compete for even ordinary jobs in future.
><snip>
>Regards,
>
>Simonm.

we're a Technology College - speciliasist in the DT subjects........
--

Simon Isaacs

Peterborough 4x4 Club Newsletter Editor and Webmaster
Green Lane Association (GLASS) Financial Director
101 Ambi, undergoing camper conversion www.simoni.co.uk
1976 S3 LWT, Fully restored, ready for sale! Make me an offer!
Suzuki SJ410 (Wife's) 3" lift kit fitted, body shell now restored and mounted on chassis, waiting on a windscreen and MOT
Series 3 88" Rolling chassis...what to do next
1993 200 TDi Discovery
1994 200 TDi Discovery body sheel, being bobbed and modded.....

On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 18:52:45 +0000 (UTC), Simon Isaacs
<[email protected]> wrote:

>we're a Technology College - speciliasist in the DT subjects........

Delirium Tremors?

On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 12:21:14 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Once a significant number of members stop following the rules
>the society collapses.

However, once _everyone_ stops following the rules, you either have
anarchy, or, a natural and accepted means of co-existence which is
based upon unagreed norms - or, rules by any other name.

The experiment in the Dutch town, where they abandoned all road signs,
rights of way etc was somewhat interesting in this respect.


--
"We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one
of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being
increasingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs
In memory of Brian {Hamilton Kelly} who logged off 15th September 2005

"Mother" wrote ((snip))
> The experiment in the Dutch town, where they abandoned all road signs,
> rights of way etc was somewhat interesting in this respect.
>
Did you ever find any accident stats for that experiment? Rumour has it that
they all but ceased.

--
Regards
Bob
1974 S111 SWB 2.25 petrol Hardtop (For Sale)
1987 90 2.5 petrol Hardtop

Neil Brownlee <[email protected]> uttered summat
worrerz funny about:
> This one has struck a chord with me. Not sure how many of you have
> met my daughter R'Vanneth. She's only 9, and is dealing on a regular
> basis with being virtually ignored at school. She is never late,
> she's intelligent, she's not disruptive, apparently she's a joy to
> have in the classroom.
>
> Sometimes she comes home, sighs deeply and asks why the "naughty"
> children get all the praise, the prizes (for working hard apparently)
> and extra time from the teachers. Obviously *WE* can understand what
> is being attempted - but it's being taken to such a degree that the
> hard workers are now being ignored because they are "always good". A
> little praise goes a long way - and for her to constantly work hard
> for some recognition and lose it to some little oik that hasn't sworn
> at a teacher for a week upsets her (and me).
>
> Society is changing. I'm not sure if it's for the good.

Putting one of my other caps on mention this to the school teachers / heads
when you next go to the meeting. In fact sod it... mention it before!

Mention that your child has picked up on this and check up on how the school
embraces "Every child matters".

This concept is exactly what you mention, nurturing the gifted and talented
as well as those with special needs.
Its also about alot more such as health, well being and ensuring the
children grow to make a positive contributon to society.

see...I'm not as thick as I look

;-)

Lee D

In message <[email protected]>
"Bob Hobden" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> "Mother" wrote ((snip))
> > The experiment in the Dutch town, where they abandoned all road signs,
> > rights of way etc was somewhat interesting in this respect.
> >
> Did you ever find any accident stats for that experiment? Rumour has it that
> they all but ceased.
>

But apart from being an interesting experiment, statistically it was/is
meaningless, since it has a high novelty factor and is not the "norm".

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay

In message <[email protected]>
Simon Isaacs <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 15:52:24 +0000 (UTC), "Neil Brownlee"
> <[email protected]> scribbled the following
> nonsense:
>
> >This one has struck a chord with me. Not sure how many of you have met my
> >daughter R'Vanneth. She's only 9, and is dealing on a regular basis with
> >being virtually ignored at school. She is never late, she's intelligent,
> >she's not disruptive, apparently she's a joy to have in the classroom.
> >
> >Sometimes she comes home, sighs deeply and asks why the "naughty" children
> >get all the praise, the prizes (for working hard apparently) and extra time
> >from the teachers. Obviously *WE* can understand what is being attempted -
> >but it's being taken to such a degree that the hard workers are now being
> >ignored because they are "always good". A little praise goes a long way -
> >and for her to constantly work hard for some recognition and lose it to some
> >little oik that hasn't sworn at a teacher for a week upsets her (and me).
> >
> >Society is changing. I'm not sure if it's for the good.
>
> as a teacher I think it fair to say that you notice the "naughties"
> first, because they are the ones who you get to know. The quiet kid
> at the back who just goes along producing work without disruption,
> just absorbing everything like a sponge takes a while to get to know,
> and requires the least assistance with their work. A current think
> tank proposes praising the naughties when they behave and getting
> stuff right..... at the detriment of the quiet intelligent ones.....

I hear on the news that there is a radical new idea being bandied
about to deal with this sort of issue. "Streaming" I think they called
it on the radio........... somehow sounds vaguely farmiliar?

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay

On or around Fri, 20 Jan 2006 18:46:03 +0000 (UTC), Simon Isaacs
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>as a teacher I think it fair to say that you notice the "naughties"
>first, because they are the ones who you get to know. The quiet kid
>at the back who just goes along producing work without disruption,
>just absorbing everything like a sponge takes a while to get to know,
>and requires the least assistance with their work. A current think
>tank proposes praising the naughties when they behave and getting
>stuff right..... at the detriment of the quiet intelligent ones.....

it's all fine apart form the last bit. When I was in school, the habitually
naughty got detention, the "dap" and the cane, in that order. This had no
noticeable effect on the level of naughtiness.

However, the system mustn't be allowed to ignore the good kids completely
either. They need praise just as much, if not just as much praise.

note, BTW, "system", not "individual teacher". I'm well aware of the load
the system puts on teachers and I thank whatever deity may exist that I
didn't go into teaching as a career... I'll stick to teaching archery to
people and kids who self-select 'cos they want to do it.

I'm not sure what you do with the ones who literally CBA to work and just
regard the whole process as a waste of time. Personally, I'd teach 'em the
3 R's as much as they absorb and boot 'em out to get on with it, and stop
wasting valuable resources on those who have no wish to learn. I'd also
have a state-funded scheme whereby they can later go to night school or
something and do the school learning when the decide that it was a mistake
not to learn in the first place. Forcing education on those who have no
desire for it is a waste of everyone's time.

Allied to this is that you don't get a guaranteed standard of living
including colour telly, DVDs and mobile phones on the dole. You get dole
enough to support a very basic existence, viz. enough to afford housing,
heating, food and basic clothes. If you choose to spend the money on fags
and beer, then that's your problem. Anyone who genuinely wants a job can
get education necessary to apply for it - but ideally, they don't get to
spend ages doing every kind of education at the state's expense. You get a
certain amount of education at the state's expense, but there has to be a
limit - if you want to spend your life being an academic, you have to fund
it yourself.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Remember that to change your mind and follow him who sets you right
is to be none the less free than you were before."
Marcus Aurelius Antoninus (121-180), from Meditations, VIII.16

Mother" <"@ {mother} @ wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 12:21:14 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Once a significant number of members stop following the rules
>> the society collapses.
>
> However, once _everyone_ stops following the rules, you either have
> anarchy, or, a natural and accepted means of co-existence which is
> based upon unagreed norms - or, rules by any other name.
>
> The experiment in the Dutch town, where they abandoned all road signs,
> rights of way etc was somewhat interesting in this respect.

Funny how, when the traffic lights are broke it takes a lot less time & hassle to cross the busy
junction!!


--
Subaru WRX
Range Rover LSE (Bob) FOR SALE!!!
Range Rover 4.6 HSE (The Tank!)

'"I don't remember asking you a goddam thing"

On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 10:26:07 -0000, "Nige"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Funny how, when the traffic lights are broke it takes a lot less time & hassle to cross the busy
>junction!!

I'd say it depends on the junction. Have you tried coming out from a
minor quiet road onto/across a major/busy one (especially at busy
times of day). Hard work with no lights.

In message <[email protected]>
Tom Woods <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 10:26:07 -0000, "Nige"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Funny how, when the traffic lights are broke it takes a lot less time & hassle to cross the busy
> >junction!!
>
> I'd say it depends on the junction. Have you tried coming out from a
> minor quiet road onto/across a major/busy one (especially at busy
> times of day). Hard work with no lights.
>

I do that on 3 crossroads every morning - I *love* it when the
lights are broken, however after week or so the novelty wears off
and life gets interesting.

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay

Tom Woods wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 10:26:07 -0000, "Nige"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Funny how, when the traffic lights are broke it takes a lot less time & hassle to cross the busy
>> junction!!
>
> I'd say it depends on the junction. Have you tried coming out from a
> minor quiet road onto/across a major/busy one (especially at busy
> times of day). Hard work with no lights.
>
We were in Ft Lauderdale in October for Hurricane Wilma - all the power
failed early in the morning, and wasn't restored city wide for about 2
weeks.

Americans REALLY can't handle no lights - accident rates shoot up,
queues at junctions were 200 yds long at all times of the day.

We generally adopt roundabout rules, priority to stuff from your right.

Steve

On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 22:57:47 -0000, "Bob Hobden" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>> The experiment in the Dutch town, where they abandoned all road signs,
>> rights of way etc was somewhat interesting in this respect.
>>
>Did you ever find any accident stats for that experiment? Rumour has it that
>they all but ceased.

I think there's a very broad range of benefits - not least looking at
accident stats. People tended to drive completely differently (my
original, slightly lost point I guess).

http://www.smallingerland.nl/index.cfm?sid=175



--
"We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one
of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being
increasingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs
In memory of Brian {Hamilton Kelly} who logged off 15th September 2005

On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 08:39:43 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
<[email protected]> wrote:

>But apart from being an interesting experiment, statistically it was/is
>meaningless, since it has a high novelty factor and is not the "norm".

Although perfectly correct in your analysis, there are lessons to be
learned and a fair amount of qualitative data to suggest cognitive
changes and the creation of more harmonious 'shared spaces'. I
understand this model is to be deployed elsewhere on a more permanent
basis (Manchester and Ipswich spring to mind, not too sure where I got
that from, though).


--
"We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one
of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being
increasingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs
In memory of Brian {Hamilton Kelly} who logged off 15th September 2005

Tom Woods <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 10:26:07 -0000, "Nige"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Funny how, when the traffic lights are broke it takes a lot less time &
>> hassle to cross the busy
>> junction!!
>
> I'd say it depends on the junction. Have you tried coming out from a
> minor quiet road onto/across a major/busy one (especially at busy
> times of day). Hard work with no lights.

err yes, of course isn't that how it's supposed to work - the road
with the greater flow gets priority. Just like round-a-bouts (aka
islands).

--
William Tasso

On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 19:38:50 +0000, Mother <"@ {mother} @"@101fc.net>
scribbled the following nonsense:

>On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 18:52:45 +0000 (UTC), Simon Isaacs
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>we're a Technology College - speciliasist in the DT subjects........
>
>Delirium Tremors?

looking round many of the staff, it could be!
--

Simon Isaacs

Peterborough 4x4 Club Newsletter Editor and Webmaster
Green Lane Association (GLASS) Financial Director
101 Ambi, undergoing camper conversion www.simoni.co.uk
1976 S3 LWT, Fully restored, ready for sale! Make me an offer!
Suzuki SJ410 (Wife's) 3" lift kit fitted, body shell now restored and mounted on chassis, waiting on a windscreen and MOT
Series 3 88" Rolling chassis...what to do next
1993 200 TDi Discovery
1994 200 TDi Discovery body sheel, being bobbed and modded.....

Don't worry just cos we happen to be at the extreme end of Europe and there
ain't nowhere else to go, Greenland is going to open up once global warming
really sets in and the ice melts

--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes



"SpamTrapSeeSig" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [nb: strong views expressed - you've been warned!]
>
> In article <[email protected]>, Mother
> <"@ {mother} @"@101fc.net> writes
> >I see too much removal of liberty in one sense or another an all too
> >little reward (and in this sense, 'reward' need not be directly
> >tangible in any commonly accepted sense).
>
> Kids have no concept of how hard they'll be hit by the real
> world of work. We face global competition with a vengeance now,
> India, China and Latin America too, and our current social
> structure is wholly unsustainable.
>
> The trouble is, every school wants to be a performing arts
> college (I exaggerate, but you get the drift), and nobody's
> telling the children just how tough it will be and how hard
> they'll have to compete for even ordinary jobs in future.
>
> Now this next bit looks like a complete switch of topic, bit it
> isn't - bear with me as it's horribly relevant:
>
> I'm incensed by the mass immigration we're seeing, not because
> of race or creed, but because it operates to take low-end work
> and thus dignity from people already here, and will eventually
> cause the collapse of society.
>
> We have a Normal distribution of intelligence, as with every
> other society on the planet, but immigrants can reasonably be
> expected to be on average brighter than those who don't move.
> Thus, irrespective of background, you'd generally expect them
> to out-compete the existing population for low-end jobs in the
> first instance because they're better and far more motivated
> (Maslow), and then rapidly move up the social scale.
>
> This is indeed what the figures show - and good for them! They
> have the humility and determination to do jobs our children
> don't want. Unfortunately, that's creating a massive and
> permanent imbalance in society.
>
> The net economic benefit is less than nil, because all
> immigrants are aspirants too. They want to progress, have
> pensions, et mortgages, send their children to Oxford, etc.,
> and why not? The second and subsequent generations are just
> like my children. Neither they nor their parents want them to
> do the menial jobs their parents did. Again this is quite
> reasonable and understandable, BUT, if you fall for the
> rhetoric, it also means we need more immigrants for those
> unwanted jobs. Thus the cycle continues, with an ever-
> increasing population and demand on social provision of all
> kinds.
>
> As for immigration counterbalancing an ageing population - this
> argument is so stupid it just makes me angry: immigrants age
> just as anyone else does. Shouldn't they have a right to
> pension and health-care provision like the rest of us, or is
> the government actually proposing a discriminatory two-tier
> society?
>
> It turns out that immigrant workers are far more expensive for
> a society like ours in the long run, because to the normal
> lifetime public-sector cost you have to add the considerable
> expenses of the support and integration phases. Without double-
> digit economic growth (and, thanks to 'Imprudence' the UK
> economy is teetering on a precipice right now), the present
> situation - never mind the immigration expected over the next
> decade or more - is quite unsustainable economically, never
> mind socially. It will eventually end in societal break down
> and anarchy.
>
> The only fix - and it's a sticking plaster - is cramming as
> much education into our children as possible. There is no such
> thing as a sustainable knowledge-based economy (because of the
> bottom half of the normal distribution - they have to do
> something!), but we can stave off societal collapse for a while
> by ensuring our children are the best educated they can
> possibly be, such that we can out-compete other places for
> creative work (but we still do need to stop mass immigration
> immediately).
>
> Thus the discipline problem is crucial. Rude and intractable
> children, indulged by their parents and the education sector's
> child 'psychologists', are destroying their own futures and
> those of the children they share classes with. It's not the
> street crime rate we should be worrying about, it's the mass
> unemployment of the next generation, caused by them being
> rendered unemployable by poor education and social systems, and
> a global economy that cares not where a job is done as long as
> it happens. "Their" jobs will end up elsewhere on the planet,
> done by well educated Chinese and Indians ('good for them!'
> says I).
>
> Forget whatever nasty racist rubbish you may hear from the BNP-
> the real issues are economics, together with discipline and
> quality in education. Nobody with children, of whatever
> background, living in this country now can afford to let the
> present situation obtain for much longer.
>
> If the British population, _all_ of us, don't wake up and smell
> the coffee soon, our kids will be making it with acorns. I
> exaggerate, obviously, but the crisis remains real.
>
> Regards,
>
> Simonm.
>
> --
> simonm|at|muircom|dot|demon|.|c|oh|dot|u|kay
> SIMON MUIR, BRISTOL UK www.ukip.org
> EUROPEANS AGAINST THE EU www.members.aol.com/eurofaq
> GT250A'76 R80/RT'86 110CSW TD'88 www.kc3ltd.co.uk/profile/eurofollie/

And whats wrong with performing arts

I'll have you know I happen to drive an installation

--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes


"SpamTrapSeeSig" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [nb: strong views expressed - you've been warned!]
>
> In article <[email protected]>, Mother
>
>
> The trouble is, every school wants to be a performing arts
> college (I exaggerate, but you get the drift), and nobody's
> telling the children just how tough it will be and how hard
> they'll have to compete for even ordinary jobs in future.
>
>.co.uk/profile/eurofollie/

On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 18:09:31 -0000, "William Tasso"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Tom Woods <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 10:26:07 -0000, "Nige"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Funny how, when the traffic lights are broke it takes a lot less time &
>>> hassle to cross the busy
>>> junction!!
>>
>> I'd say it depends on the junction. Have you tried coming out from a
>> minor quiet road onto/across a major/busy one (especially at busy
>> times of day). Hard work with no lights.
>
>err yes, of course isn't that how it's supposed to work - the road
>with the greater flow gets priority. Just like round-a-bouts (aka
>islands).

You can wait for hours sometimes though!
Not that i have much trouble as i drive landrovers and proper solid
swedish cars and am brave enough to push my way out! - but other
people in smaller soft cars arnt always as brave!