Steve's unexpected Series 3 rebuild.

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A gearbox and chassis like that deserves a good clean engine, it usually goes a bit further than you planned for when you get one stripped but it feels better when you get it running again knowing there are no nasty surprises covered up.
How is the engine stand performing, I am looking at getting one next year when I do my engine, was thinking of one with two arms at the front, don't know how it will balance with a TD5 lump bolted on
Hope the job story goes well for you
 
raywin said:
A gearbox and chassis like that deserves a good clean engine, it usually goes a bit further than you planned for when you get one stripped but it feels better when you get it running again knowing there are no nasty surprises covered up.
How is the engine stand performing, I am looking at getting one next year when I do my engine, was thinking of one with two arms at the front, don't know how it will balance with a TD5 lump bolted on
Hope the job story goes well for you
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Thanks for that. My job has been under threat for years on and off. Something will turn up.

The engine stand has really surprised me. So far I can't fault it at all. In a minute I am going out to drop the sump off and try rotating the engine over for a shufty into the engine's nether regions. Sort of like the mechanical version of a prostate examination. I will let you know how I get on.
 
Right then. Exciting times.
The sump came off nice and easy but at the bottom was about 6mm of crud. I had a little dig around with my finger in this probably carcinogenic slime but I couldn't feel any gritty or metallic bits.
Then I rotated it over. The stand is bloody brilliant! I'm glad I remembered to grease it well when I assembled it because it was a doddle to use.
Now I really hope i'm right here because it looks good inside the block. Really clean.
There was hardly any light and my torch is rubbish but I think I can see the honing marks in the bores. Now surely if that's the case then it can't be too bad can it?
There was no gunge in the gauze of the oil pick up.
There is a tiny bit of movement in the big ends up and down the crank. I don't know if that's right or not.
All in all, for a first inspection, by a bloke who doesn't know what he's talking about i'd say it's looking pretty good.
Photos soon.
 
LincolnSteve said:
Right then. Exciting times.
The sump came off nice and easy but at the bottom was about 6mm of crud. I had a little dig around with my finger in this probably carcinogenic slime but I couldn't feel any gritty or metallic bits.
Then I rotated it over. The stand is bloody brilliant! I'm glad I remembered to grease it well when I assembled it because it was a doddle to use.
Now I really hope i'm right here because it looks good inside the block. Really clean.
There was hardly any light and my torch is rubbish but I think I can see the honing marks in the bores. Now surely if that's the case then it can't be too bad can it?
There was no gunge in the gauze of the oil pick up.
There is a tiny bit of movement in the big ends up and down the crank. I don't know if that's right or not.
All in all, for a first inspection, by a bloke who doesn't know what he's talking about i'd say it's looking pretty good.
Photos soon.
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bores will look good at the bottom ,theres no wear there its 1 cm or so below the top where its found, conrods should be as tight as possible but still slide to either side of the journal,clean is good
 
aaronmorris said:
Nice work Steve, not checked in for a while, good to see you're still sticking at it, keep up the good work chap.
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Good to hear from you again mate. I've not got all that much through the summer. Loads of other stuff cropped up and took priority.
Keep an eye on me because I think I've got to get stuck into the bottom end of the engine. I've done a cylinder head once before years ago but never a bottom end. We're heading into uncharted waters here.:eek:
 
Ok. Not quite so optimistic now.
The rocker gear and head is off now so I've had my first good look inside.
Initially it looked good but then I found that there is a ridge about 1cm from the top exactly where @jamesmartin said it would be.
It did look like it was just carbon build up but I cleaned a small area and it's a definite ridge. It seems so insignificant but I guess even a few thousandths makes all the difference. Father in law thinks he has a tool to measure properly inside the cylinder. If I can get my hands on that (and use it properly) I will try to get some actual measurements.
So now I know it's there how do I find out if it's within tolerances or is it a rebore regardless? Has anyone had one done lately? If so how much does it cost?
The pistons are standard size so at least there's the option of doing one.
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The waterways are really gunged up as well. Really solid deposits. Is there a chemical way to clean those? I have seen things written about using vinegar and dishwasher detergent. Is there any truth in that.
Have a look at the pictures and let me know what you think and what you would do next if you were in my size 9's.
 
its quite clean as those engines go
i have a bore comparator if you need to borrow one, you measure at the bottom of bore fore and aft then just below ridge at the top 90 degrees to the crank, the difference is the wear,you used to be able to get plus 10,20,30,40,60,only plus 20 and 40 now,its not the worst ive seen by any means and blue and red blocks usually have some wear but run ok with it, its about 150 for a rebore, id measure,its possible a hone might be enough
 
jamesmartin said:
its quite clean as those engines go
i have a bore comparator if you need to borrow one, you measure at the bottom of bore fore and aft then just below ridge at the top 90 degrees to the crank, the difference is the wear,you used to be able to get plus 10,20,30,40,60,only plus 20 and 40 now,its not the worst ive seen by any means and blue and red blocks usually have some wear but run ok with it, its about 150 for a rebore, id measure,its possible a hone might be enough
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Great info. Thanks.
I'll get everything really cleaned up and get down to some measuring. It would be really great if I could get away without a rebore.
 
Nick666 said:
Great photography by the way Steve - wish all posts had such good pics as it'd be easy to follow for us laggards waiting for a complete A-Z step-by-laborious-step guide! :) Good luck with the head!
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Thank you for that. I'm just annoyed that photo bucket removed all the earlier photos. It's not such a good read without them.
 
No that is infuriating. I did see on (I think) another forum thread elsewhere (shh!) there's a chrome (and firefox I think) add-on that gives you a sort-of workaround - called 'photobucket embedded image fix'. But what it does is give you a link to the file on their website, rather than reinstate it inline. So it's not a true fix sadly!

(PS can remember the time when it would have taken a day to download this page good old 9k modems :D)
 
The Mad Hat Man said:
they havent removed them - just stopped you sharing them, just download to your pc and put them directly on to LZ
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I see. Thanks for that.
I think I will still struggle to find time to find all the right photos for all the right places (he says as he sits at work reading landyzone when he should be cracking on );)
 
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So this is the internal micrometer I borrowed. I have cleaned the carbon from the top of the bores and the crown of the pistons.
As you can see in the first picture the mic will sit level on a flat surface and luckily the top of the pistons are flat.
So what I did was to measure in line with the crank and at 90 degrees to it. I did this with the pistons right at the bottom of their stroke, in the middle when they are all at the same level and right at the top in that darker coloured area that you can see in the last picture.
The book says the bore should be 3.562. The measurements taken in line with the crank were all 3.565. The ones at 90 degrees to the crank were 3.565 at the top and 3.566 for all the others.
So I think that at worst the wear in the lower part of the bore is +4 thou.
What do you all think? Does that method seem reasonable?
If I've got all this right then I'm thinking I might get away with just honing and new piston rings.
I got talking to the guy who runs the local village garage the other day. People have been recommending him to me for ages but this was the first time we'd spoken. He did say he would have a look for me so I might drop the block into the trailer and take it to him on Monday when I have a day off. Unless we're snowed in. Wouldn't it be great to have a 4 wheel drive at times like this.o_O
 
LincolnSteve said:
View attachment 136473 View attachment 136475 View attachment 136476 View attachment 136477

So this is the internal micrometer I borrowed. I have cleaned the carbon from the top of the bores and the crown of the pistons.
As you can see in the first picture the mic will sit level on a flat surface and luckily the top of the pistons are flat.
So what I did was to measure in line with the crank and at 90 degrees to it. I did this with the pistons right at the bottom of their stroke, in the middle when they are all at the same level and right at the top in that darker coloured area that you can see in the last picture.
The book says the bore should be 3.562. The measurements taken in line with the crank were all 3.565. The ones at 90 degrees to the crank were 3.565 at the top and 3.566 for all the others.
So I think that at worst the wear in the lower part of the bore is +4 thou.
What do you all think? Does that method seem reasonable?
If I've got all this right then I'm thinking I might get away with just honing and new piston rings.
I got talking to the guy who runs the local village garage the other day. People have been recommending him to me for ages but this was the first time we'd spoken. He did say he would have a look for me so I might drop the block into the trailer and take it to him on Monday when I have a day off. Unless we're snowed in. Wouldn't it be great to have a 4 wheel drive at times like this.o_O
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book size is nominal ,they vary a few thou some blocks under some over pistons whenn built are similar and chosen to fit blocks actual size ,as it happens yours are true size and 4 thou is 2 per side so since its a 2.25 petrol id hone it using a slow drill and one of these, ive got one if you want to borrow it, and get a std set of rings
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jamesmartin said:
book size is nominal ,they vary a few thou some blocks under some over pistons whenn built are similar and chosen to fit blocks actual size ,as it happens yours are true size and 4 thou is 2 per side so since its a 2.25 petrol id hone it using a slow drill and one of these, ive got one if you want to borrow it, and get a std set of rings
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That's great news. Thanks for the offer of the hone but father in law reckons he's got one of those as well. He had a phase of collecting tools and he's never used any of them! Still mustn't grumble it's all good for me.
 
LincolnSteve said:
That's great news. Thanks for the offer of the hone but father in law reckons he's got one of those as well. He had a phase of collecting tools and he's never used any of them! Still mustn't grumble it's all good for me.
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thats lucky, i just didnt want you to have to buy one when you might never use it again,dont just lightly do it give it a good hone so as old bore face is removed and a good cross hatch on new metal left
 
jamesmartin said:
thats lucky, i just didnt want you to have to buy one when you might never use it again,dont just lightly do it give it a good hone so as old bore face is removed and a good cross hatch on new metal left
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Thank you again for the info. It is absolute gold to me. You should be charging for it. You could be the online restoration doctor. £5 into your PayPal account gets concise answers to 3 questions. Pay a bit more and get up to 15 minutes of Skype time to analyse problems.

Obviously you can't charge me though because I came up with the idea! ;)
 
LincolnSteve said:
Thank you again for the info. It is absolute gold to me. You should be charging for it. You could be the online restoration doctor. £5 into your PayPal account gets concise answers to 3 questions. Pay a bit more and get up to 15 minutes of Skype time to analyse problems.

Obviously you can't charge me though because I came up with the idea! ;)
Click to expand...

That's genius!

Glad the rebuild is going well.
 
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