Steering wheel violent feedback!

jim cummings · Mar 26, 2012

Hi so I am having trouble diagnosing a problem that has rescently began to appear. As the snow has melted on teh roads I have noticed that I appear to be getting a violent feedback on the steering wheel when I go over some potholes whilst cornering. It seams to be you feel the bump (which is normal) but this starts the front axle to shake violently and sends these vibrations/shakes up the steering coloumn to the wheel. It appears to get amplified if I brake at the same time. So it happens worse when cornering over potholes, and breaking. A couple of times its been quite frightening as the wheel shakes so much the car trys to jump of the road. I am thinking steering damper of swival preload? Any ideas?
Just to give you an idea of the spec:
1992 200tdi Discovery, that in the past 12 months, have replaced steering damper, swival rebuild, all suspension bushings, TF 2" lifted springs, TF all terrain shocks, caster corrected front, back arms, all steering ball joints, a frame bushing, HD turrets, I have the weight on the end of the steering damper,and steering damper has been returned to orriginal position as it seamed less affective in defender position. Any thaughts appreciated might recheck swival preload as have not checked this for 5-6 months. Wheel bearings all seam fine. Thanks Jim

defender1990 · Mar 26, 2012

i would just get underneath it with a decent torch and inspect every aspect of the suspension and steering, give everything a good going over and try moving ball joints and check suspension mounts with a crowbar to just see how much movement you are getting.

Thinking about it, if you jack the front of the car up and try moving the wheels left to right see if they are loose, i had a similar problem when the nuts that hold the hubs on came loose and the hub nearly fell off! this would be amplified by the brakes, also check your wheel nuts as some have a habbit of comming loose

DiscoPol · Mar 26, 2012

do a search for "death wobble" on here and you will have plenty to read

crazymac · Mar 26, 2012

Check you panhard rod bushes and also tracking!!!

I was having a wobble similar to this and had decided my panhard rod bushes were shot, but then noticed a wear on the inside of the tyres, had tracking checked and rather than being minus 1 it was plus 10!!

Wobble has gone now.

tinhat · Mar 26, 2012

After a good inspection and wriggleitus
I'd start from the outside and work in.
Wheel bearings (I've had one go on a normal car and it was really wierd, taper bearing broke up, service agent had tightened it and not released it one flat, just pinnned it as was, and of course denied all knowledge)
Cv joins, swivels, and then the steering system .
Good luck, please post the final diagnosis
TH

classic kev · Mar 26, 2012

I know you said you replaced the steering damper within the last 12 months but I had a similar thing with my Range Rover Classic. The "new" steering damper was no good, put on a new gas damper and not looked back.

nick2303 · Mar 26, 2012

had this problem on mine... taken a while to solve, new steering damper, drag links, track rod ends, cos i've got a 2" lift an adjustable panhard rod was suggested.. but i aint got £100 to spare just now..

think i've cured it though.. new bushes on REAR trailing arm to chassis.. only ones i could find with play in em and looked a bit crap...

check yours if nowt else is obviously broke..

jim cummings · Mar 26, 2012

Ok update I have checked vehicle.
Forgot to mention earlier I have adjustable pan hard rod. Checked all associated components in suspension ,steering, axles (all should be fine as all replaced in past 12 months anyways).
Only thing I can find any play in is steering box, its fine center but at extremes has excessive play allowing wheels to wobble, the further it gets to full lock the worse this gets. So I suspect I need a new steering box. Has anyone had simaler symptons with a worn out steering box, has no oil leak. It is however the only thing I have not changed in the suspension and steering system. At first I thaught it might be the preload on the swivals but this looks normal and the steering damper seams smooth to push in or out. Its a TF unit, might change it to be on the safe side, any recommendations on good units welcome. Also might change the steering coloumn uj's as the second one with the jacket seamed to have a lot of play in it. Thanks Jim

classic kev · Mar 27, 2012

jim cummings said:
At first I thaught it might be the preload on the swivals but this looks normal and the steering damper seams smooth to push in or out. Also might change the steering coloumn uj's as the second one with the jacket seamed to have a lot of play in it. Thanks Jim

How did you check the swivel pre-load?
Steering damper - if it is a straight forward oil damper I believe it should have the same resistance both ways but it should be quite hard to push/pull by hand.

Steering column UJ's - if they have play in them, get new ones. You also said something about the steering box, have you tried tightening it up to see if you can reduce any backlash?

In theory, if the swivel pre-load is right, the wheel bearings are good, the tyres are balanced and have air in them and the steering damper is working properly you should not be getting vibration back through the steering. If the castor angle has changed (as happens with a suspension lift) that would of course make a big difference how the whole system works/responds.

jim cummings · Mar 27, 2012

ok update again, have tightened up steering box and feels a little better....still some slack in it but marginally improved. Truth will be when I do my 200km gravel road commute on thursday.

Interestingly though I checked the swival preload acurately today with fish scale. (same scale I used to set them, and check them again later on). They were set at ca 1.4kg of force, 12 months ago, I checked them 6 months ago and they were the same so no tightening needed. Today they required 3kg of force to move them.....so they are tighter....how could this be possible....bearing ware generally has generated more play, and freedom in all my past mechanical experiences. Any suggestions? I have one shot grease inside.

Also think I will likely replace steering box, and damper with gas damper when I get a chance. Not totally convinced by the 12 month old terra firma unit. Any recommendations on good gas steering dampers. I have a 2" lift but do have caster corrected radius arms....

Thanks Jim

elsie · Mar 27, 2012

Check the steering damper .

daz200tdi · Jul 16, 2012

Hi all im daz i have just got my self a 200tdi 5 door very clean and tidy with only 81,300 miles on the clock with all service history.
I do have 1 problem with this when driving at 50-60mph and hit the most smalist bump in the road the steering shakes like the trackings out the steering wheel shakes like mad then the hole motor shakes like mad you just have to slam ya brakes on its that bad
it had £500 spent on it to fix it but still dose it. This is what has been done

on 21/6/2012

investigate vibrration
check all bushes (they said was fine)
wheel balanced
fit new steering damper
remove propshaft
strip axle end reset bearings
fit new shockabsorbers
fit 2 brand new tyres to frount

all this was done by
v & j davis
specialist vehicle engineers

but still it has the problem iv asked otheres and i get told all sorts like check the king pins then i get told these dont have king pins i just need it sorting please can some 1 help

Pikey · Jul 16, 2012

Swivel bearings, Rear Aframe Bushes. rear radius arm (arm to chassis bushes)

But more importantly if you've paid £500 take it back and tell the coonts to fix it or give you your money back.

If I went to sort out a leaky pipe and fitted a new light fitting or hung a door. the client would tell me to fook orf. Why should a garage be any different?? you've paid them to sort it. they haven't why would you pay them??

Mutley 62 · Jul 26, 2012

Hi all, I too suffered from this issue so I thought I'd share my knowledge, it turned out to be the panhard rod bushes which were replaced using poly bushes following Busters easy to follow instructions... thank you M8 ! on my defender tho the spanner size is 22mm not 24mm and if you have the original Landy bushes, as I did, you have to also remove the outer part of the bush that's left after you have removed the inner steel bush and burnt the "fookers out" even a Noobie norbert like moi can do this.

Steering is now not as vague and No 45 mph death wobble Hoorah !

Cheers, Mutley 62

KiwiTDI · Jul 26, 2012

Hi Jim ref the pre load increasing is the target figure You are working too with or without the big oil seal in place, I noticed the rave manual for my abs car gives the figure without the seal, the force might vary quite a bit with oil seal in place depending on the state Eg cleanliness of the swivel ball

Just a thought .....

jamesmartin · Jul 26, 2012

jim cummings said:
Ok update I have checked vehicle.
Forgot to mention earlier I have adjustable pan hard rod. Checked all associated components in suspension ,steering, axles (all should be fine as all replaced in past 12 months anyways).
Only thing I can find any play in is steering box, its fine center but at extremes has excessive play allowing wheels to wobble, the further it gets to full lock the worse this gets. So I suspect I need a new steering box. Has anyone had simaler symptons with a worn out steering box, has no oil leak. It is however the only thing I have not changed in the suspension and steering system. At first I thaught it might be the preload on the swivals but this looks normal and the steering damper seams smooth to push in or out. Its a TF unit, might change it to be on the safe side, any recommendations on good units welcome. Also might change the steering coloumn uj's as the second one with the jacket seamed to have a lot of play in it. Thanks Jim

steering boxes do have play either side of center increasing towards each lock ,thats why steering wheel and road wheels need to be set whilst box is central

jamesmartin · Jul 26, 2012

KiwiTDI said:
Hi Jim ref the pre load increasing is the target figure You are working too with or without the big oil seal in place, I noticed the rave manual for my abs car gives the figure without the seal, the force might vary quite a bit with oil seal in place depending on the state Eg cleanliness of the swivel ball

Just a thought .....

absolutely right swivel preloads on disco and defender are done without seal in place

Steering wheel violent feedback!

jim cummings

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defender1990

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DiscoPol

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