Freelander 1 Steering still mush

Stuart hall · Apr 8, 2018

Hi all, took car out for a good long drive yesterday. Glad to report the engine at least seems perfect now. Was crusing along at 100 kph at just over 2500 rpm. Gave her some beans on a downhill straight and she accelerated strongly.
Steering still not right though, it's hard to explain but if you've ever driven an old yank where your constantly sawing at the wheel to keep it in a straight line you'll know what I mean.
The front tyres are new, 30 psi, new and old show no sign of uneven wear.
Hit a rough patch of road and you can feel the front skip left or right slightly.
Can't be an obvious fault as just passed test.
I've done the basic push test and shocks seem ok ( bounces up and stays )
Anyrhing obvious a numpty can look for ?

Nodge68 · Apr 8, 2018

Bushes, ball joints and wheel alignment are prime candidates. A correctly set-up Freelander doesn't wander, except if the road camber is extreme. On a decent bit of road, the steering shouldn't need corrections, except to follow the road.

Stuart hall · Apr 8, 2018

Nodge68 said:
Bushes, ball joints and wheel alignment are prime candidates. A correctly set-up Freelander doesn't wander, except if the road camber is extreme. On a decent bit of road, the steering shouldn't need corrections, except to follow the road.

Thanks as usual Nodge, tracking is spot on, wheel bearings are good, tyres brand new 225 s ? Maybe non standard ?
As said to describe driving it's like I've got tiny bicycle tyres which are over inflated, car steers itself slightly left and right all the time, take my hands off the wheel doesn't pull left or right and brakes in a straight line ( eventually ) lol
More concerned about the poor brakes at the moment, the discs are rusty and grooved. Their non vented.
1 is there a low pad warning light on mine 2 can I upgrade to vented or x drilled etc.

freelance · Apr 8, 2018

Check he track control ends, sounds like one has a bit of play, I changed a n/ s at 40000 miles, never did the offside at well over 100k miles

GrumpyGel · Apr 8, 2018

Stuart hall said:
Thanks as usual Nodge, tracking is spot on, wheel bearings are good, tyres brand new 225 s ? Maybe non standard ?
As said to describe driving it's like I've got tiny bicycle tyres which are over inflated, car steers itself slightly left and right all the time, take my hands off the wheel doesn't pull left or right and brakes in a straight line ( eventually ) lol
More concerned about the poor brakes at the moment, the discs are rusty and grooved. Their non vented.
1 is there a low pad warning light on mine 2 can I upgrade to vented or x drilled etc.

Re warning light - no there isn't.

Re upgrades - anything is possible, @Diesel Do put discs off (IIRC) a Chrysler on his. As I say though, drilled discs and (probably) performance pads didn't do anything for @htr. Easiest option is your anchor!

Stuart hall · Apr 8, 2018

GrumpyGel said:
Re warning light - no there isn't.

Re upgrades - anything is possible, @Diesel Do put discs off (IIRC) a Chrysler on his. As I say though, drilled discs and (probably) performance pads didn't do anything for @htr. Easiest option is your anchor!

Lol yes anchor came in handy a few times, tried to take pic of discs but wasn't clear.
If they were new I recon I'd have 30% more braking area so might wait for the warning light ( loud scraping noise ) and get new one's.
On my English parts suppliers site discs range from £15 each to £60 each ! Obviously different sizes and vented or non etc.
If too much I'm thinking I could maybe make my own out of old saucepan lids lol.

Nodge68 · Apr 8, 2018

Stuart hall said:
Their non vented.
1 is there a low pad warning light on mine 2 can I upgrade to vented or x drilled etc

Yes it is possible to upgrade the discs to the later vented type. You'll need the discs and complete caliper. You might need to space the wheels out, but I think the steel wheels fit ok over the larger caliper.

Stuart hall · Apr 8, 2018

Nodge68 said:
Yes it is possible to upgrade the discs to the later vented type. You'll need the discs and complete caliper. You might need to space the wheels out, but I think the steel wheels fit ok over the larger caliper.

Sounds a bit expensive ? Will go for new standard discs for now, think I've got alloy wheels. Thanks again.
Still waiting to hear how much a service and engine mounts will cost.
Think I'll try and find a different garage.

GrumpyGel · Apr 9, 2018

Stuart hall said:
Lol yes anchor came in handy a few times, tried to take pic of discs but wasn't clear.
If they were new I recon I'd have 30% more braking area so might wait for the warning light ( loud scraping noise ) and get new one's.
On my English parts suppliers site discs range from £15 each to £60 each ! Obviously different sizes and vented or non etc.
If too much I'm thinking I could maybe make my own out of old saucepan lids lol.

If you use frying pans instead of saucepan lids - don't use Tefal ones - cos they're OEM

If you are into changing the discs - I suppose it may be worth seeing if there is much of a price difference to the later larger ones - if there isn't then see if you can get some calipers from a breakers at a reasonable price.

I resume the mounting for the older and later ones is the same and the brake pipe will mount up OK though.

Nodge68 · Apr 9, 2018

GrumpyGel said:
If you are into changing the discs - I suppose it may be worth seeing if there is much of a price difference to the later larger ones - if there isn't then see if you can get some calipers from a breakers at a reasonable price.

That's my thinking. I can't see the point in replacing the discs twice.

GrumpyGel said:
I resume the mounting for the older and later ones is the same and the brake pipe will mount up OK though.

It's a straight swap. Everything bolts back up in the same place, except for the wheels.

Stuart hall · Apr 9, 2018

Nodge68 said:
That's my thinking. I can't see the point in replacing the discs twice.

It's a straight swap. Everything bolts back up in the same place, except for the wheels.

Only one problem, no breakers here ! Think I'll just replace like for like, if you saw the state of current discs I'm sure you'd agree !
Most important thing now is oil change and mounts as now getting a metal to metal drone when driving.

GrumpyGel · Apr 9, 2018

Definitely sounds like you've got pressing issues to stop the engine dieing a death.

If you've got to get discs shipped from the UK anyway, maybe what you could do is have a word with these people...

https://www.gentlemenofsalvage.co.uk/

Our old friend in Portugal was always getting bits posted to him from them and he said they always provided parts in good condition. Maybe you could see if they have good discs and calipers off a 2001+ car at a decent price. Even if they are not perfect, they're presumably going to be in better condition than yours and have better performance. Who knows, the calipers may even have some pads with decent life left in them! It sounds like they will be as easy to fit as replacing like-for-like discs with a bit more bleeding - so long as the hose/pipe comes off the old caliper without damage. While you're at it, it may be worth getting that bit to from the breakers!

GrumpyGel · Apr 9, 2018

Nodge68 said:
That's my thinking. I can't see the point in replacing the discs twice.

It's a straight swap. Everything bolts back up in the same place, except for the wheels.

The brake calipers will be designed/built with "plungers" of a certain size and they will require XYZ ml of fluid to be pumped from the master to action the pads to the desired performance. The master will obviously have been designed to pump that amount of fluid given the brake peddle movement actioning it.

Are the old and new brake setups using the same amount of fluid? ie a full press of the peddle will result in enough fluid pumped to the calipers and similarly it won't just be 1/4 of a peddle movement!

What do you think gives the better performance improvement - the bigger servo on the master or the bigger/ventilated discs?

A million questions

Sorry!

GrumpyGel · Apr 9, 2018

GrumpyGel said:
Definitely sounds like you've got pressing issues to stop the engine dieing a death.

If you've got to get discs shipped from the UK anyway, maybe what you could do is have a word with these people...

https://www.gentlemenofsalvage.co.uk/

Our old friend in Portugal was always getting bits posted to him from them and he said they always provided parts in good condition. Maybe you could see if they have good discs and calipers off a 2001+ car at a decent price. Even if they are not perfect, they're presumably going to be in better condition than yours and have better performance. Who knows, the calipers may even have some pads with decent life left in them! It sounds like they will be as easy to fit as replacing like-for-like discs with a bit more bleeding - so long as the hose/pipe comes off the old caliper without damage. While you're at it, it may be worth getting that bit to from the breakers!

Don't forget as well - as Nodge says - you'll need the later wheels to go over the new calipers, or use spacers. For the 15" - that's the 5 spoke as opposed tot he 6 spoke on ours.

Stuart hall · Apr 9, 2018

GrumpyGel said:
Don't forget as well - as Nodge says - you'll need the later wheels to go over the new calipers, or use spacers. For the 15" - that's the 5 spoke as opposed tot he 6 spoke on ours.

Many thanks as usual, to start with although in theory now illegal here any imported goods can be slapped with an extra 20% import duty even second hand items ! They would tax them at the brand new manufacturers Rrp and add 20% so thats not viable.
As with yours grumpy the brakes are adequate, I recon only about 70% of mine are usable so if I replace like for like with decent pads I'm sure they will be greatly improved.
I'm back in the UK next month so could bring back a set of really good pads like greenstuff or brembo and fit them.
I think the mount is now non existent hence the metal on metal vibrations.
God knows when the oil was last changed, I didn't want to pay for a service only to fail the ITV.
Now I can prioritize phoebes faults and work through them.

Nodge68 · Apr 9, 2018

GrumpyGel said:
Are the old and new brake setups using the same amount of fluid? ie a full press of the peddle will result in enough fluid pumped to the calipers and similarly it won't just be 1/4 of a peddle movement!

The piston stroke and diameter are the same. So the swept volume of the caliper is the same. The only difference between the solid disc caliper and the vented caliper is the wider gap for the vented disc and the caliper is spaced further out to allow for the larger radius of the discs.

GrumpyGel · Apr 9, 2018

Nodge68 said:
The piston stroke and diameter are the same. So the swept volume of the caliper is the same. The only difference between the solid disc caliper and the vented caliper is the wider gap for the vented disc and the caliper is spaced further out to allow for the larger radius of the discs.

Stuart hall · Apr 10, 2018

Phew im kn@ckered ! Been out for lunch in a beautiful little fishing village about 40 klm from home and my arms are killing me.
Tested steering on motorway on way home, I can turn steering wheel about three inches left or right and f a happens!
So yet another job that'll need sorting.
I'm constantly sawing away on the wheel to keep her on the straight n narrow.
Apart from that oh and the brake issue she ran very well.

GrumpyGel · Apr 10, 2018

How much did you bung that tester?

Stuart hall · Apr 10, 2018

"

GrumpyGel said:
How much did you bung that tester?

I know it's a joke, so called safety check lol. Obviously something is seriously worn.
Itse just like driving my 70 s Buick with a seriously worn steering box !
I guess my balljoints are shot ?
Tyres very evenly worn though
First job oil n filters and mounts !

Freelander 1 Steering still mush

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