Starting issues again

Hi all,

I've pretty much read to death all related threads that I can associate with this issues so here goes.
My 2006 td5 defender has ran without fault for the last two years, The after popping to my inlaws to do a few jobs, about half a mile away, coming home it splutters and dies, exactly like running out/cutting out of fuel. Several attempts, priming system, checking all connectors I'm familiar with still nothing, tried untill my battery needed charging. Replaced battery next day, primed and off it went. Started several times later as well. Got an independent expert to check over and pressure from the fuel pump was around 4 bar but flicked. He was adamant it was the fuel pump. Fitted new, primed and started straight away. Also suspected a slight leak on the fuel pressure regulator assembly so changed that. Primed again and started straight away. Tidied every thing away ready to go for a run, wouldn't start. Got it going and put it down to low fuel, dropped the tank to check inside, sludge etc. Only thing I could see with the pump was a very very slight dusting of "soot" checked injector harness, dry, oil level not riding so dismissed the injector seals and harness, although bought spares. Just been in it today started first time, just gone back and back to not starting. Exactly like before but didn't happen whilst driving!!! got to be electrical but without changing parts here and their and not knowing which it was has anyone gone any pointers???
Cheers in advance and sorry about the length!!!

Worth a look at the crank sensor, had the same on a couple of mercs especially when they got hot would try and cut out or just not start after being stopped for a while, new fixed them once and for all.
Im not sure where exactly it is on the td5 engine? but maybe when it wont start pour a watering can of cold water over the sensor and see if it then fires.

lynall said:

Worth a look at the crank sensor, had the same on a couple of mercs especially when they got hot would try and cut out or just not start after being stopped for a while, new fixed them once and for all.
Im not sure where exactly it is on the td5 engine? but maybe when it wont start pour a watering can of cold water over the sensor and see if it then fires.

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Thanks for that, I had thought about the crank sensor but the lad who checked it over for me dismissed it!!! My understanding of diesels is that once they are running, any electrical faults wouldn't cause them to stop. The flickering pressure out of the fuel pump, could that be caused by the crank sensor failing even though the engine wasn't running??

lynall said:

Worth a look at the crank sensor, had the same on a couple of mercs especially when they got hot would try and cut out or just not start after being stopped for a while, new fixed them once and for all.
Im not sure where exactly it is on the td5 engine? but maybe when it wont start pour a watering can of cold water over the sensor and see if it then fires.

Click to expand...

dinger189 said:

Thanks for that, I had thought about the crank sensor but the lad who checked it over for me dismissed it!!! My understanding of diesels is that once they are running, any electrical faults wouldn't cause them to stop.

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Mine started having trouble starting,slowish needed multiple cranks, I put it down to injector washers and seals , the day I drove to over to do them, after 10 Miles the car stopped on the Mway, after that it would run after being allowed to cool down ( 10 mins), but stop again after 4 ish miles.

replaced the crank sensor and away it went, fine now for a further 10K miles. Injector washers and seals solved the original slow starting issue.

Cheers

dinger189 said:

Thanks for that, I had thought about the crank sensor but the lad who checked it over for me dismissed it!!! My understanding of diesels is that once they are running, any electrical faults wouldn't cause them to stop. The flickering pressure out of the fuel pump, could that be caused by the crank sensor failing even though the engine wasn't running??

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Old school diesels like 200tdi etc yes once running will run forever so long as power is applied to the stop solenoid, now anything 300tdi edc onwards relies heavily on electricity and once you have an intermittent or dead signal you are dead in the water literally!

Havent a clue of the flickering fuel supply.

Might be worth checking if theres foreign material on the nose of the crnak sensor, transits suffered from this and Im sure they arent the only ones.

neilly said:

Mine started having trouble starting,slowish needed multiple cranks, I put it down to injector washers and seals , the day I drove to over to do them, after 10 Miles the car stopped on the Mway, after that it would run after being allowed to cool down ( 10 mins), but stop again after 4 ish miles.

replaced the crank sensor and away it went, fine now for a further 10K miles. Injector washers and seals solved the original slow starting issue.

Cheers

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Just had the crank sensor out, don't have a new one but worth a look. Replaced it tried again, same turns over, not slowly either same as it always had. Scratched head and decided to change fuel filter, only done about 2k since last time, although two ish year ago. Primed twice, turned over, trying to but then started, a little sluggish at first then OK. stopped and tried again twice in the last half hour,started first turn. still going to change the crank sensor and the injector harness and injector seals when a new rocker box gasket arrives but nothing I have found points towards either of these,bought themso might as well fit them. Still puzzling me, got to be electrics!!! Just a mention, crank sensor didn't have an o ring fitted!!!

dinger189 said:

Just had the crank sensor out, don't have a new one but worth a look. Replaced it tried again, same turns over, not slowly either same as it always had. Scratched head and decided to change fuel filter, only done about 2k since last time, although two ish year ago. Primed twice, turned over, trying to but then started, a little sluggish at first then OK. stopped and tried again twice in the last half hour,started first turn. still going to change the crank sensor and the injector harness and injector seals when a new rocker box gasket arrives but nothing I have found points towards either of these,bought themso might as well fit them. Still puzzling me, got to be electrics!!!

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When mine stopped I also changed the fuel filter and housing at the same time, mainly because when changing the filter I looked at the pipe fittings on the filter housing it was all so corroded that it was starting to fall apart.

I found the bad starting was the injector and seals, the filter housing was a change that stops me having issues in the future, plus it included the air bleed and the non return valves anyway. The stopping and not restarting when hot was the CPS.



Cheers

injector seals if poor fill sump with diesel injector washers fill fuel gallery with air,nearly all poor starting jobs ive had have been fuel pump often clogged with black sludge and often just failing,air bleed valve and injector washers one or all of them,electrical faults relays or sensor have given no attempt at starting however long you crank

jamesmartin said:

injector seals if poor fill sump with diesel injector washers fill fuel gallery with air,nearly all poor starting jobs ive had have been fuel pump often clogged with black sludge and often just failing,air bleed valve and injector washers one or all of them,electrical faults relays or sensor have given no attempt at starting however long you crank

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Swapped pumps, fitted genuine saw no issues of black sludge. Apart from getting it going again after stopping the issues seems to be. It's starts runs drives for a short distance, this time I was only turning it around, started and ran twice before the same day. Runs then just seems to die almost like the fuels just been cut off. Trying to start is similar, turns over fine but just doesn't fire. Then later on it will start!!!!

Check the fuel pump relay is seated correctly, worth while pulling it out and clean contacts.

Change crank sensor, also faulty starter motor can upset crank signal,

I don’t really know about the td5 sounds like almost the exact issue I had with my 200tdi, it would work for a week the just be very intermittent for the next week then work randomly. A lot of people suggested fuel issues and air getting in the system but it didn’t explain the intermittent nature. In the end i took my start stop solenoid out and removed the little plunger and put it back together and it’s been fine ever since. But that’s probably doesn’t help as I don’t know how the td5 works.

There’s no faulty wiring from the ignition or a bad connection somewhere causing lack of fuel?

i had similar problem i replaced fuel pressure regulator as it was leaking still the same then spoke to someone who worked in land rover he said he has replased a lot of fuel filter housings and thats been the problem other ppl said pump as it was very noicey but turned out it was only noicey as it was pulling in air from the filter housing as i fitted new one just recently and that cured it. hope this helps scot

Just an update on this issue, by the way thanks for all the help. I've have enough time to prove it now and, touch wood, it looks like it was the crank sensor after all. When I first got a TD5, not really have much to do with them, I though mine was running as it should do, plenty of punch when you put your foot down, not sluggish starting etc,etc. Only thing that I though was different and I put it down to the fly by wire throttle was that driving along at a constant speed it didn't sound like a diesel should, best I could describe it was it sort of rattled, maybe, just maybe slightly hesitant but putting your foot down it flew!!! Anyhow after changing the crank sensor it does seem to be like a normal diesel now. The issues I had with the pump flickering pressure I can only assume it was something to do with the crank sensor and that it was maybe switching the pump off/on as many times a second at it was getting flagged by the crank. This all might well be bollocks but all I can say is that it does drive and seem better now the crank sensor has been changed!!! Any one need a good fuel pump and pressure regulator??? only joking I keep my defenders for ages so they may come in in the future, hope not. Thanks again, especially to the lad who said he had a similar issues with a few Mercades but I can't find the post so may have read it else where!!
Cheers again lads speak next time it all goes wrong.
Bry