Starter motor packed in?

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Mr Robinson

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Hi, been a lurker on the forum for a while, finally joined, so here goes my first post!

I have a Series 3 (with Rover 3.5 v8) which I bought off ebay and am restoring. I got it down to chassis with engine, gearbox, and bulkhead (inc. dash) still in place and did some welding to the chassis, then waxoyled the lot.

Pre welding and painting it started and ran fine. Refitted the radiator yesterday then tried to start - nothing!

All I hear is a click which I have pinpointed as a relay(?) behind the dashboard. Also the "BRAKE" lights up on the dash.

Battery - checked, it is slightly flat but I've been jumping off my van anyway (with battery in place)

Earth - checked, cleaned and sanded earth connection on chassis.

Starter switch - checked by using a touching a screwdriver across the + and starter switch on the starter motor itself. Exact same result as turning the key.

Starter motor - gave it a tap with a hammer to loosen it, still no joy.


So in short I have tried everything I can think of, it might well be a knackered starter motor but I can't imagine why it would just die when it ran before? Is there anything else I can try? Not looking forward to getting the starter motor off, 2 of the most annoyingly placed allen bolts I've ever seen!!!

Cheers
Adam
 
yep bypass the lot to test the starter.

get a fresh battery and use jump leads directly across the starter motor +ve on the starter will be the one with the big copper strap to the solonoid.

if you get nothing, its a dead battery or a dead starter. you can strip down the old starters and try to repair them yourself but thats me getting ahead of myself.

hope this helps.
 
Check earth from battery to chassis, chassis to engine - I've got an additional connection from the battery to the engine. Check the live connections from the battery to solenoid. Check there's volts at the solenoid energising terminal when you try to start.
The brake warning light should be on with the ignition and should go out when the engine fires (it is off if there's adequate vacuum for the servo, the brake pedal travel isn't excessive and the hydraulic pressure in the dual circuits is the same). If it comes on only when you're trying to start the ignition switch might be wrongly wired. Dunno what the relay behind the dash is for.
 
borristherat said:
yep bypass the lot to test the starter.

get a fresh battery and use jump leads directly across the starter motor +ve on the starter will be the one with the big copper strap to the solonoid.

if you get nothing, its a dead battery or a dead starter. you can strip down the old starters and try to repair them yourself but thats me getting ahead of myself.

hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Never thought of that, I'll give it a go, thanks!
 
oxides said:
Check earth from battery to chassis, chassis to engine - I've got an additional connection from the battery to the engine. Check the live connections from the battery to solenoid. Check there's volts at the solenoid energising terminal when you try to start.
The brake warning light should be on with the ignition and should go out when the engine fires (it is off if there's adequate vacuum for the servo, the brake pedal travel isn't excessive and the hydraulic pressure in the dual circuits is the same). If it comes on only when you're trying to start the ignition switch might be wrongly wired. Dunno what the relay behind the dash is for.
Click to expand...

Thanks mate, how do I check, do I need a multimeter?

I think the ignition is wired OK because when I turn the key I get a click from that relay, and if I short the ignition wire to the +ve with a screwdriver I get the same click.

The brake light is off with ignition on but lights up when I turn the key - the brakes are knackered though so it might be unrelated.

Dr_evil said:
Breaking a 3.5 V8 pm me if interested mate
Click to expand...

Thanks pal, might take you up on that, how hard is it to get the starter motor off? Looks like a complete t*@t, 2 allen bolts?
 
Is the clicking relay the sound of the starter solenoid operating? Is the solenoid separate from the motor or combined with it? Has some idiot fitted an engine with a pre engage starter but left the old separate solenoid in circuit?
As for the brake warning light (and general electrical help) there's a good explanation in the brakes section of the manual.
pdf Land Rover Manuals | Landroverweb.com
 
Mr Robinson said:
Thanks mate, how do I check, do I need a multimeter?

I think the ignition is wired OK because when I turn the key I get a click from that relay, and if I short the ignition wire to the +ve with a screwdriver I get the same click.

The brake light is off with ignition on but lights up when I turn the key - the brakes are knackered though so it might be unrelated.



Thanks pal, might take you up on that, how hard is it to get the starter motor off? Looks like a complete t*@t, 2 allen bolts?
Click to expand...

Not sure, my parts catalogue will tell me but I've got more than enough time and all the tools needed to take it off if you want it

Could probably have it off, cleaned and ready to ship by thursday or friday if needed
 
OK so an update:

Yesterday I bypassed the solenoid and clamped my jump leads onto the starter motor itself - it did spin and whir but didn't shoot out. Does this mean knackered solenoid?

If I connect the battery up normally and use a screwdriver to touch the main +ve on the solenoid and the ignition switch terminal, nothing happens.
 
Remove the starter motor and check that the starting pawl spins out.

You could find that it is slightly gunged up, and all it needs is a good cleaning!

OSD
 
Thanks OSD for your help.

Today I found another earth (chassis to gearbox) that had been painted over when the chassis was painted. Jumped for joy, cleaned it, still nothing.

Then climbed underneath and put a spanner between the solenoid terminal and starter motor terminal. This time either the starter motor or solenoid clunked and the starter span, but still didn't shoot out and turn the engine over.

I have been avoiding taking the starter motor off as it looks like a bitch to get to, but I think I'll just have to bite the bullet and do it as soon as I get time.

The one thing that really annoys me is before the chassis was painted it all worked fine and started on the button!

Could it be that something is just stuck and I didn't hit it hard enough with my hammer?
 
Mr Robinson said:
OK so an update:

Yesterday I bypassed the solenoid and clamped my jump leads onto the starter motor itself - it did spin and whir but didn't shoot out. Does this mean knackered solenoid?

If I connect the battery up normally and use a screwdriver to touch the main +ve on the solenoid and the ignition switch terminal, nothing happens.
Click to expand...


Sounds like the Solenoid.
If you painted the chassis recently, Its very easy to knock the connecting wires off the bottom of the solenoid when fiddling about underneath. If you get a new solenoid remember it's earthed by it's bracket, you can't have it floating in the engine bay to test while the old one occupies the bracket.
 
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