Sounds nasty now - why?? Test your ears..

Bobsticle · Apr 26, 2022

TS2304 said:
Will try and get hold of an adapter for the pressure gauge that will match the sender hole to check pressure. but how do I check the oils getting through everything ok? If I run it with cover off would I see it flow?

The oil travels up the pipe into the head then through a ‘way’ in the cast up under the rear most rocker shaft block. It then travels through that block via another oil way and into the hollow rocker shaft.
The oil ways are very small and easily block. When running the oil should seep out along the full length of the rocker shaft as it has a hole inside each rocker bush.
If silicone has got past the mesh on the oil pickup back in the sump I would inspect it very closely. Anything bigger than one mm getting past it must mean it’s failing somewhere. The oil filter should be taking anything else out.
When I first took my sump off the mesh did have a few strips of silicone stuck to it but way too big to get into the pump or beyond.

lynall · Apr 27, 2022

Get a cheap usb boroscope, take injectors/plugs out and with each piston at BDC take a look at the bores.

But I think I would just pull the head, as to me it sounds like it could be fubar, with possible bore damage

How far was the test drive?

Bobsticle · Apr 27, 2022

From the photo of the bottom end it looks to me like it’s already had a rebore. The tell tale colour change on the inside happens as the cutting fluid and swarf run down the inside.
If the cylinders are heavily scored it might be beyond a rebore and require new sleeves. Hopefully it’s a big end shell that’s given up. Mi big bro used to change them from under the car so can be done with the the engine in.

Turboman · Apr 27, 2022

Bobsticle said:
From the photo of the bottom end it looks to me like it’s already had a rebore. The tell tale colour change on the inside happens as the cutting fluid and swarf run down the inside.
If the cylinders are heavily scored it might be beyond a rebore and require new sleeves. Hopefully it’s a big end shell that’s given up. Mi big bro used to change them from under the car so can be done with the the engine in.

I think that is what I would do, sump off, and remove the big end caps and have a look a the shells.

Change if thought needed, they aren't a lot of money, and then replace sump without using any sealant.

TS2304 · Apr 27, 2022

Having put more thought into overnight, I've realised that, as the pump filter in the sump is completely intact and so must be doing its job plus the external filter was also working and fitted right, then the 'flake' i found in the feeder pipe can't have come from my sump refit. It wasn't sealant, couldn't see what it was (only about 2mm across) and it may have been there for years, or just moved up the pipe. After changing the oils i'd driven about ¼ mile before the horrid noise started. Stopped immediately and could see nothing obvious hanging loose so gingerly brought it back. Whether the oil pipe was blocked or not, and if so for how long, i'll never know. It may or may not have been the cause of my current problem. Ultimately doesn't matter i guess as I clearly need to strip the engine to find the cause - I'm wondering now if it might be something in the timing chain considering it was running and timed perfectly before but now seems to run like crap, hot and smokey (and noisy obvs). But whatever, I'll start from the underside and strip away til i find something awry. Tho I might still try a quick start with the rocker cover off just to check oil flow etc - will see how things go time wise. Not off again for a while so things on hold pretty much for now. If i find the cause I'll update - Thanks all for the advice & suggestions.

kermit_rr · Apr 27, 2022

Hicap phill said:
When you removed the rocker cover could you see oil?

remove main coil lead and crank it over once you have a pressure gauge.pressure will still rise without the engine running & hopefully cause less damage.

Another thought is if that filter ifitted correctly.(not done a S2 filter in over 30years)

It's better to unclip the LT lead from the coil, no big sparks then

Bobsticle · Apr 27, 2022

Test the rocker as described. Then have a look at the big ends. After that it starts getting a bit more complicated. I can’t think of anything that would make that noise but it could cause that noise in the timing gear cover.

Colthebrummie · Apr 28, 2022

It doesnt sound like big ends or crank bearing noise to me. Are all the spark plugs firing ok?. Id say the noise is somewhere in the valve train, maybe on the exhaust side. I dont think a quarter mile test drive would cause much damage caused by oil starvation to be honest. Is the vacuum pipe fitted properly between the carb and dizzy?

Col

steve2286w · Apr 28, 2022

You could remove rocker shaft and rockers and push rods and have a look down hole see if any damage. Also se if all 8 tappet slide securing nuts tight on side of engine and see if any noise coming from each using copper pipe as stethoscope,

check oil pressure by removing sensor and turn over , could remove plugs first go get a faster spin

TS2304 · Apr 30, 2022

Got some more done on it today - checked over all the obvious things again (dizzy, carb etc) and put in new spark plugs just to be sure. nothing amiss there; however I did discover why last time i started it it ran hot and smoky, it was, er, (confession time...) the choke cable got pulled when i was fiddling previous and was fully on

. Once I'd sorted that it started and ran as previously - though still with the noise obviously. Timing not an issue though so that's something ticked off.
Took the rocker cover off and got it running. when it was at tick-over I took a video - it's below. Does this shed any light on anything from anyone? the clonking noise still there. I thought that the oil flow looked a bit lacking on the middle rockers - the 2nd video is a close up of that - oil pours out nicely from all the others, but not this one. Other than that, to my untrained eye, things seem OK - though pretty sure that the rockers or pistons is where the noise is coming from.
So next step is to remove the shaft and give it all a good clean and check push rods etc. Hope to get that done tomorrow and then will re-assemble and see where we are.
If anyone can spot anything in the videos, or from the sounds you here this time, all suggestions gratefully received!
If what i do to the rockers doesn't sort it, i'll either move to the underside to follow up on the shells idea or take off the head and look at the pistons.
Video with rocker cover off:
Video close up of oil flow (and also good for hearing the clonking):

steve2286w · Apr 30, 2022

Certainly plenty of oil there, from the vid it looks like the tapping frequency is same as a single tappet noise , which you can tell if you slow video down. Have you tried to listen with a makeshift stethoscope on each rocker pedestal I think it might be a flat spot on a cam lobe / tappet roller which can be. Head off job. You can also remove the side plates and get to see some of the lobes, don’t think it’s shells or pistons

Tall Ratbag · Apr 30, 2022

steve2286w said:
Certainly plenty of oil there, from the vid it looks like the tapping frequency is same as a single tappet noise , which you can tell if you slow video down. Have you tried to listen with a makeshift stethoscope on each rocker pedestal I think it might be a flat spot on a cam lobe / tappet roller which can be. Head off job. You can also remove the side plates and get to see some of the lobes, don’t think it’s shells or pistons

Yes,that's exactly what I was thinking as I watched the video. It is at cam / valve speed.

It might be worth pressing down on each rocker on the adjuster side with a piece of wood with the engine on tick over - if there is a flat spot,or similar, I would expect to feel it and/or for the noise to change.

Bobsticle · Apr 30, 2022

Plenty oil. Pop the head off, take out the retaining bolts with the wire through them and extract the followers. Make sure you have a composite head gasket to re fit.
Check the followers and disks and check the cam. You might have a blocked hole under the suspect rocker but that ain’t making the noise. Worth cleaning out though.
The noise sounds much less on these videos so may be an easy fix.

TS2304 · May 1, 2022

Thanks all. I’ll finish cleaning up the rockers and put back on. Then take another look / listen to see if I can hear the cam issue. I did try a bit of pipe to listen before and could only really narrow it down to the valve/piston area. But my ears are shot so far from reliable. If I can find my dial meter might also try measuring valve lift which could show a difference if a flat spot?

TS2304 · May 3, 2022

Cleaned up the rockers and replaced the shaft. Ran it again. Oil flows better but obviously didn’t stop the noise. Used a pipe and pretty sure there was a hefty clicking sound when held on the middle rocker. Using wood to press down on all them in turn didn’t seem to make a difference.
So have removed the head which came off just as the manual said it would which was a pleasant surprise. Heavy bugger tho.
Now it’s out I have no idea if things look as they should- can anyone shed any light?
Was kinda hoping I’d see something obviously loose or clearly wrong but nothing seems off to me (tho new territory for me).
Here’s a couple pics of the block and then one of the bottom of the head.

Guess next I need to get rid of the wire and take out the tappet seats to take a look at them?

Bobsticle · May 3, 2022

Yep. That’s the next step. I used a scriber with the bent end to hook under them and lift out. Brass tappet first then the roller and finally lift the guide cylinder.

steve2286w · May 3, 2022

As bob says and keep the parts in correct positions and orientation by tappet number and which direction the roller and slide are in
The roller will have different chamfers on either side can’t remember which way they go round
All rollers should be perfectly round without flats, and cam lobes should be smooth with no flats , remove suspected noisy pair first , careful not to drop roller into sump

TS2304 · May 3, 2022

Thank guys - will hopefully get to them tomorrow.
While I have the head off is there anything else i can usefully do that normally would never get to?
Should I clean off all the carbon etc
or take out the springs and check / clean?
or is it best to just leave things as they are considering it runs well (other than the noise, which I hope to find).

lynall · May 3, 2022

I would not be adding more variables to the mix.

steve2286w · May 3, 2022

I would

, remove valve collets with a socket and hammer and cloth to catch them then you can grind in valve heads , check for side play in valve stems and new valve stem oil seals

Sounds nasty now - why?? Test your ears..

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