Some help for a new owner? Leaky fuel pump on a Series 3

Turboman · Jul 19, 2022

NjHall said:
Cheers everyone, sorry for the absence, I didn't know there were replies! I have still yet to make the time to try moving the pump further over, but it's on the list as I realised there were no crush washers in the injector housings... so had to sort that first. Can anyone point me in the right direction for the glow plug upgrade? Also, these fixed pipes are a pain when trying to adjust the pump, has anyone managed to fit flexible pipes? Cheers!

Flexible pipes will just blow apart under that pressure. You can adjust the pump a little bit without loosening the pipes.
Be careful they are fitted properly, without any built in twist, before you do this.
Are you sure you have refitted the injectors properly?
One copper washer in each hole, one steel washer, right way up, in each smaller tip hole. And did you make absolutely sure there were no old washers down the holes before putting the new ones in?

If you have done all that right, it is possible that the pump is worn out, as Bobsticle said, new injectors will often show up a tired pump.

If it isn't any of that, it is likely you have an issue with the non injection related areas of the engine.

Bobsticle · Jul 19, 2022

Turboman said:
Flexible pipes will just blow apart under that pressure. You can adjust the pump a little bit without loosening the pipes.
Be careful they are fitted properly, without any built in twist, before you do this.
Are you sure you have refitted the injectors properly?
One copper washer in each hole, one steel washer, right way up, in each smaller tip hole. And did you make absolutely sure there were no old washers down the holes before putting the new ones in?

If you have done all that right, it is possible that the pump is worn out, as Bobsticle said, new injectors will often show up a tired pump.

If it isn't any of that, it is likely you have an issue with the non injection related areas of the engine.

Could just be the butterfly valve not opening early enough or closing too much.

Turboman · Jul 19, 2022

Bobsticle said:
Could just be the butterfly valve not opening early enough or closing too much.

That is true, the air side is worthy of checks as well. Including the inlet hoses, which can collapse internally in a treacherous way.

nickjaxe · Jul 19, 2022

ciderman said:
having lived with that diesel engine and one of my vehicle has it still, i would advise getting a different engine.

Did over 200,000 miles with my 2.25d.....dont miss it one little bit since fitting my 200di.

NjHall · Jul 23, 2022

Turboman said:
Flexible pipes will just blow apart under that pressure. You can adjust the pump a little bit without loosening the pipes.
Be careful they are fitted properly, without any built in twist, before you do this.
Are you sure you have refitted the injectors properly?
One copper washer in each hole, one steel washer, right way up, in each smaller tip hole. And did you make absolutely sure there were no old washers down the holes before putting the new ones in?

If you have done all that right, it is possible that the pump is worn out, as Bobsticle said, new injectors will often show up a tired pump.

If it isn't any of that, it is likely you have an issue with the non injection related areas of the engine.

Check! Injectors reconditioned/ reset and bores checked for old washers, then refitted with proper spec copper washers and steel crush washers, corrugated side uppermost and dowels tightened down to specified torque. So can a worn pump be giving too much fuel, causing white smoke? If so, any suggestions on a good place to get the pump reconditioned? I've heard mixed results.

Bobsticle said:
Could just be the butterfly valve not opening early enough or closing too much.

Very interesting, this has prompted me to look into other posts regarding the butterfly. Having said that, on a drive I can get up to speed but it's hard to say whether it's lacking power as I don't have masses of experience with this engine. Could the issue be down to how it is adjusted during tickover?

Cheers all for the help! I have been wistfully dreaming of upgrading the engine, but then it looses it's originality and historic vehicle status.

Turboman · Jul 23, 2022

NjHall said:
Check! Injectors reconditioned/ reset and bores checked for old washers, then refitted with proper spec copper washers and steel crush washers, corrugated side uppermost and dowels tightened down to specified torque. So can a worn pump be giving too much fuel, causing white smoke? If so, any suggestions on a good place to get the pump reconditioned? I've heard mixed results.

Very interesting, this has prompted me to look into other posts regarding the butterfly. Having said that, on a drive I can get up to speed but it's hard to say whether it's lacking power as I don't have masses of experience with this engine. Could the issue be down to how it is adjusted during tickover?

Cheers all for the help! I have been wistfully dreaming of upgrading the engine, but then it looses it's originality and historic vehicle status.

Diesel Bob seems to be the best option for pump recons at the moment. Unless there is a local place to you that has a good reputation.

Google search for Diesel Bob, he has a good website.

Bobsticle · Jul 23, 2022

Turboman said:
Diesel Bob seems to be the best option for pump recons at the moment. Unless there is a local place to you that has a good reputation.

Google search for Diesel Bob, he has a good website.

Yep. I used diesel Bob. He ain’t cheap but uses British made parts and even pays taxes.

You simply send him the pump and he does a full strip down looksee for £50. If you have it fixed you don’t pay the fifty bats. Mine was particularly knackered and it cost £400 including vat and return postage. He couldn’t even believe it was off a runner it was that bad. He also runs a full test and adjust to factory speck before it’s return.

your butterfly valve should begin opening just before the acceleration happens. I found by setting mine a few mm open at tickover helped the white smoke problem.

Turboman · Jul 23, 2022

Bobsticle said:
Yep. I used diesel Bob. He ain’t cheap but uses British made parts and even pays taxes. You simply send him the pump and he does a full strip down looksee for £50. If you have it fixed you don’t pay the fifty bats. Mine was particularly knackered and it cost £400 including vat and return postage. He couldn’t even believe it was off a runner it was that bad. He also runs a full test and adjust to factory speck before it’s return.

your butterfly valve should begin opening just before the acceleration happens. I found by setting mine a few mm open at tickover helped the white smoke problem.

I would consider that cheap. The last time I had a full rebuild on a Lucas pump, actually a DPS pump off a Ninety, it was done by a Delphi Diesel agent in Cornwall. It was a few years ago, and it was over 600 quid including VAT.
I wasn't worried about it, they did a fantastic job, and the Ninety went like a train all the rest of the time I had it.

Bobsticle · Jul 23, 2022

Turboman said:
I would consider that cheap. The last time I had a full rebuild on a Lucas pump, actually a DPS pump off a Ninety, it was done by a Delphi Diesel agent in Cornwall. It was a few years ago, and it was over 600 quid including VAT.
I wasn't worried about it, they did a fantastic job, and the Ninety went like a train all the rest of the time I had it.

He is from the North West so will probably have paid his mortgage off by his 20th birthday and had all the whippets and flat caps anyone could ask by 30. Money just becomes vulgar after that

NjHall · Jul 24, 2022

Cheers for the continuing advice all! I seem to have made some progress... I advanced the fuel pump past where I had previously to about 5mm past timing line and the smoke is reduced (Hurrah!). However, I can now hear a high pitched tap, most noticeable on tick-over. Have I advanced it too far? I would be keen to get feedback on if this sounds like how it should be running. Video below from inside cab, the ticking is there, but hard to make out due to rubbish audio quality:

Video embedded below of how badly it smoked before adjustment, then at current adjustment:

Any feedback on how it's running welcome!

With regards to the butterfly, do some 2 1/4L diesels lack this feature? My intake manifold looks different to others pictured and lacks any sort of accelerator linkage, however there does appear to be a vacuum line to the brakes:

Reference image

Image of my engine bay, where inlet manifold looks different.

Cheers,
Nick

Turboman · Jul 24, 2022

NjHall said:
Cheers for the continuing advice all! I seem to have made some progress... I advanced the fuel pump past where I had previously to about 5mm past timing line and the smoke is reduced (Hurrah!). However, I can now hear a high pitched tap, most noticeable on tick-over. Have I advanced it too far? I would be keen to get feedback on if this sounds like how it should be running. Video below from inside cab, the ticking is there, but hard to make out due to rubbish audio quality:

Video embedded below of how badly it smoked before adjustment, then at current adjustment:

Any feedback on how it's running welcome!

With regards to the butterfly, do some 2 1/4L diesels lack this feature? My intake manifold looks different to others pictured and lacks any sort of accelerator linkage, however there does appear to be a vacuum line to the brakes:
View attachment 270020 Reference image
View attachment 270021 Image of my engine bay, where inlet manifold looks different.

Cheers,
Nick

Sounds Ok to me, and reasonable smoke level. Remember these don't have to pass emissions tests now if historic registered.

As yours doesn't have one, obviously some don't have a butterfly in the intake. It could be that some previous owner has fitted a 2.5 NA air intake at some stage.
It could be that the butterly in the air intake is only fitted to produce enough vacuum for a brake servo, diesels often do not produce sufficient vacuum to operate a brake servo, which is why exhauster units are often fitted on diesels.
If you have servo, and it is working, probably best to just leave things as they are.
If the servo doesn't work, you will have to find an intake with the butterfly arrangement.

As an aside, I would be wary of revving an old diesel no load like that. When the engine is under load it acts like a second governor, keep the revs under control. You don't know how accurately the rev limiter in the governor has been set.
Driving the vehicle around a bit, getting the engine up to full temperature may improve the smoke situation further as well.

nickjaxe · Jul 24, 2022

The occasion mis at low rpm is a sign of retarded pump timing.....if you go for a run and the engine sounds harsh and knock at higher RPM its to advanced....running over advanced is not good for the motor....more load on the big end bearings ect.

NjHall · Jul 24, 2022

Cheers both!

Took it for a spin and white smoke cleared after a while, although I could just make out some black some on heavy load. Any issues with that? Also thanks for the tip on revving while stationary, i will keep that in mind.

nickjaxe said:
The occasion mis at low rpm is a sign of retarded pump timing.....if you go for a run and the engine sounds harsh and knock at higher RPM its to advanced....running over advanced is not good for the motor....more load on the big end bearings ect.

I couldn't hear an obvious knock, but keen to get this engine running as best it can to extend it's life. Should I bring the pump back a little bit just in case?

Turboman · Jul 24, 2022

NjHall said:
Cheers both!

Took it for a spin and white smoke cleared after a while, although I could just make out some black some on heavy load. Any issues with that? Also thanks for the tip on revving while stationary, i will keep that in mind.

I couldn't hear an obvious knock, but keen to get this engine running as best it can to extend it's life. Should I bring the pump back a little bit just in case?

I wouldn't consider a puff of black smoke under hard acceleration a problem. Likely caused by the pump putting in more fuel as you put your foot down. If you look at videos of truck racing and tractor pulling, they chuck out black smoke, because they set the pumps to overfuel, be on the safe side. The engines will be in near perfect condition and tune. They aren't worried about fuel costs or emissions testing, they just want max power.

Just move the pump around a bit until you are happy with it. You want a nice smooth idle, and smooth power through the rev range.
You aren't going to do massive damage suddenly if it isn't quite right. With a bit of wear on everything, the exact instructions in the manual are not necessarily going to be exactly right any more. You just have to go by trial and error.

nickjaxe · Jul 24, 2022

As stated a touch of black smoke on higher RPM is to be expected....if it were to advanced you would see more....

When you next cold start it it will give you a clue....just a small bit of blue smoke that clears when warmed up is about prefect for me.

Some help for a new owner? Leaky fuel pump on a Series 3

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