P38A Snow driving

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Wazzajnr

Wazzajnr

Well-Known Member
Posts
2,391
Location
Chorley
OK, I'll be bringing her back home in a couple of weeks after my work trip to India.
Now,when she goes back to Czech, there's a good possibility there will be some snow about. Certainly when we go there in December and February there will be.
Question is, what are they like on snow.
Reason I ask is that the tyres are similar width to the ones on the merc and that is hopeless in the snow. Yes, I'm sure the 4wd will help with traction but if all 4 tyres are slipping around like they're on greased ice (as per the merc) then it still ain't going to be fun.
Get narrower tyres? Winter tyres?
Anyone with any experience of severe snow conditions in a p38 that can offer any advice on how to get the best?
Cheers guys.
Paul.
 
On snow the wider the better. Run with TPs a little lower so that the tread blocks flexing sheds the snow from them as the tyre rotates.
 
Braking is hopless on snow without winter or at least good AT tires. Driving permanent 4 wheel drive vehicle on snow without good tires is dangerous, as it starts off the line very good, but stopping in a hurry becomes a problem.
 
N2O said:
Braking is hopless on snow without winter or at least good AT tires. Driving permanent 4 wheel drive vehicle on snow without good tires is dangerous, as it starts off the line very good, but stopping in a hurry becomes a problem.
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Don't drive in a manner where you need to stop in a hurry. Driving in snow for most in this country has become a lost art compared to years ago when we got snow for weeks every year. An inch of snow will bring London to a standstill. ;):D
 
I agree that driving in snow is a lost art. However, whilst I agree about wider tyres for fresh snow, I'm not so sure if it's compacted. I know in my early days of driving, with 185 or even 165 tyres, it was much easier even on rwd cars than it is nowadays. I think I'll get me a set of winter tyres on it to give me the best chance.
 
Wazzajnr said:
I agree that driving in snow is a lost art. However, whilst I agree about wider tyres for fresh snow, I'm not so sure if it's compacted. I know in my early days of driving, with 185 or even 165 tyres, it was much easier even on rwd cars than it is nowadays. I think I'll get me a set of winter tyres on it to give me the best chance.
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No matter whether it is fresh or compacted narrow tyres have less contact area so are more prone to slide. Lowering the TPs slightly gives more contact area and works well in loose snow to clear the treads. Anything will slide on compacted snow. You just have to adjust your driving to suit the conditions simple as that.
 
wammers said:
No matter whether it is fresh or compacted narrow tyres have less contact area so are more prone to slide. Lowering the TPs slightly gives more contact area and works well in loose snow to clear the treads. Anything will slide on compacted snow. You just have to adjust your driving to suit the conditions simple as that.
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So why do they put such narrow tyres on rally cars, and why do I remember far less difficulties in the days of narrow tyres?
To my mind, narrow tyres will cut through the slippery surface, hopefully to find something with more purchase underneath?
 
Wazzajnr said:
So why do they put such narrow tyres on rally cars, and why do I remember far less difficulties in the days of narrow tyres?
To my mind, narrow tyres will cut through the slippery surface, hopefully to find something with more purchase underneath?
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Many, many moons ago when we got winters, it was standard practice to fit town and country tyres on the rear wheels to help in snow. On the continent in certain countries it is a legal requirement to fit winter tyres. Not so here because we now very seldom get a bad snow fall, when we do it is chaos. Think you will find any rally car doing a stage on snow or ice will have metal studded tyres fitted. In the bygone days in towns EVERY street was gritted at some stage, now only bus routes are treated. We had terrible winters at times but i can never remember my school ever being closed because of it. Now an inch of snow will shut down many. Because it happens so seldom all the stuff we had to deal with it has been cut back it costs to much to buy and maintain. It's an understandable situation but bloody frustrating if we get an heavy fall almost anywhere.
 
Agree with all you say there wammers about treatment of roads, however, when I was first driving, I remember a number of times when our street was packed snow for days if not weeks. It wasn't every year but certainly remember getting up our hill on packed snow without too much bother in a 1.6 capri. (165 tyres) but then I got my mkII granada and that couldn't even get halfway up (195 tyres) I guess it was a bit heavier though so maybe it's the weight that makes it worse? If it is more weight related then that won't bode well for the rangy!!
BTW, I never put any winter tyres on either but as winters are compulsory for Czech cars, I guess I should take the plunge. On a UK car in Czech you aren't required to fit winters but I guess it will make sense to have them.
Anyone got a good recommendation for winters on a p38??
 
By the way wammers, as I'm in Chorley, I'm not far from you. Might be good to meet up sometime to compare war stories on the rangies!!!
 
Wazzajnr said:
Agree with all you say there wammers about treatment of roads, however, when I was first driving, I remember a number of times when our street was packed snow for days if not weeks. It wasn't every year but certainly remember getting up our hill on packed snow without too much bother in a 1.6 capri. (165 tyres) but then I got my mkII granada and that couldn't even get halfway up (195 tyres) I guess it was a bit heavier though so maybe it's the weight that makes it worse? If it is more weight related then that won't bode well for the rangy!!
BTW, I never put any winter tyres on either but as winters are compulsory for Czech cars, I guess I should take the plunge. On a UK car in Czech you aren't required to fit winters but I guess it will make sense to have them.
Anyone got a good recommendation for winters on a p38??
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Think you may find as you say a Granada is a little heavier than a Capri. Snow driving if i remember rightly is about application of throttle and momentum. Going back a long time to rally days blipping the throttle to speed up and slow down the wheels was a good way of gaining grip on snow. Planting your foot on the floor was not.
 
Driving in snow is very dangerous!!! The last time we had snow I was driving down to the village and the road in the opposite direction was blocked by cars trying, without success, to climb a gentle slope. I went to open my window to tell cars to turn around as they wouldn't get past the chaos but I hit the sun roof button. Six inches of snow was deposited on The Enemy and she was not ammused.:eek::D:D:D It made me laugh.
 
tomcat59alan said:
Driving in snow is very dangerous!!! The last time we had snow I was driving down to the village and the road in the opposite direction was blocked by cars trying, without success, to climb a gentle slope. I went to open my window to tell cars to turn around as they wouldn't get past the chaos but I hit the sun roof button. Six inches of snow was deposited on The Enemy and she was not ammused.:eek::D:D:D It made me laugh.
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Easy done on the P38, I must watch out for that one!!!! I bet your sides were aching, probably from laughing alongside the good kicking!!!
 
wammers said:
Don't drive in a manner where you need to stop in a hurry. Driving in snow for most in this country has become a lost art compared to years ago when we got snow for weeks every year. An inch of snow will bring London to a standstill. ;):D
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Surely you mean 1mm :Do_O

Last year, when I had my Mercedes E320 wagon, we caught the snow at Stirling on the way back to Inverness. As we went north, it got progressively deeper & heavier. I must admit to being apprehensive as we were on (pretty recent) summer tyres and with rear wheel drive....

However, it soon became apparent the Benz was as happy on the white stuff as she was on the black stuff. It got to the point where I started overtaking all the fannies who simply haven't a clue how to drive in it. I drive all over the highlands in all weathers anyway so it held no worries for me.

I could not believe how epic that car was in snow! Seriously, I don't think the traction light lit up once (but then, that may have been down to the "ahem" driver :p ) and the snow between Newtonmore & Inverness got to be at least 5 or 6 inches, deeper in the drifts. But the Benz plowed on.

In fact, I even overtook a snow plow, a heap of wagons, cars & vans, a Discovery and even a Unimog :eek:

My wife, a very vocal back seat driver, was impressed at the handling of this massive Merc. I miss it :(

However, I was thinking about this very question of what tyres myself. I was planning a set of Nokians actually. If they are good enough for the Fins.....

https://www.nokiantyres.com/innovation/

I always used to use Gislaved Nordfrosts, but these chaps seem to get them made in Russia & they know a bit about winters ;)

My tyres have a good choice of boots

http://www.mytyres.co.uk/cgi-bin/rshop.pl
 
I am using yokohama geolandar I/T+ for winter driving - very happy with them, brilliant even on hot tarmac.
Very predictable.
 
The P38 is a wonderful winter car. I have experimented with different tire width's, and today are running with 235-60/18 as my favorite for the P38.
Unless you are using studded tires it is a question of friction. You want as high friction pr square cm as possible. If the tires are too wide the friction pr square cm will go down.
The other factor is how hard the rubber is, on winter tires the rubber must be soft and the treads must be full of fine cut transverse lines. This aids the rubber to get a good contact with the surface. Then you can choose a tire with silica grains mixed into the rubber. The main treads must also be quite open to "pump" wet snow / slush to the sides and easily clean when driving on snow of the type that you can make snowballs of. Cheap and good tires can be used (and I have tested with satisfaction) is the NANKANG SV1 or SV2.
Actually I do prefer these to Michelin X-Ice and Nokian. If the temperature does not get below -4 to -5 C also COOPER tires can be good, but they have to hard rubber to give good grip below that temperature.
Anyway the P38 has so good qualities for driving in snow that it is just fantastic. So far I have never been stuck.
At the end one trick if you get stuck in deep snow: lower the car down to access mode, let rest there for a few seconds to compress the snow before rising to top height and reverse out. (snow tires that has been used a bit also gives better traction going reverse than forwards because of the wear)
This is written from 63 degrees north where we are expecting the first snow in about 3 - 4 weeks. AND I am really looking forward to that.

If Santa Clause was invented today, he would be driving a P38, not rein-dears.
 
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