P38A SNAP!

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Grrrrrr

Grrrrrr

Technician, Bodgit & Scarper Ltd
Full Member
Posts
19,297
Location
Buckinghamshire, UK. ('95 DT)
PITA.

Friday the auxiliary belt snapped. Replaced it with the old one (saved in the boot) and all was good. Saturday I replaced the belt with a brand new one and the air-con one the boot. Sunday all is well. Monday all is well. Tonight on returning I reverse up the drive and let the car rock to a standstill. Suddenly it flashes ALTERNATOR FAULT, there's a squeal, the battery light comes on and it stalls.

When I replaced the belt I checked all pulleys and so forth were free to move. So, I appear to have an intermittent jamming something. The water pump was new a few years ago. Power-steering seems fine. Alternator was off on Saturday and seemed good - it is only a few years old. So thinking must be a pulley? The tensioner one, perhaps? Which one usually acts up?!
 
You could have a mis-alignment in the belt leading to failure, also make sure that it hasn't taken a nibble out of one of the fan blades, that'll make it wobble like a mad axeman.

More thoughts, was it an aftermarket belt, some are narrower than they should be and can walk about on the pulleys?
 
Speckydude said:
You could have a mis-alignment in the belt leading to failure, also make sure that it hasn't taken a nibble out of one of the fan blades, that'll make it wobble like a mad axeman.

More thoughts, was it an aftermarket belt, some are narrower than they should be and can walk about on the pulleys?
Click to expand...

Gates belt. Turned engine over by hand to test before starting. All looked good and to be fair for 2 days has been perfect.

What I will say is getting the tensioner pulley over required some serious grunt. In the end I had to use a large screwdriver to push it over as well as a spanner on the nut as I was worried the nut might shear off.
 
Come on Grrrrrr, you should know better, it could be owt on the old 38. :D Take the belts off an ave a good feel around, see if it all runs free and listen for any gratin noises or any catching metal noises. Thats a start, and its free. Good luck pal;)
 
I had a similar problem just last month, which turned out to be the belt tensioner bearings... With engine running you should see it flapping about like a hookers pants in a gale instead of gently rolling..
 
Looked OK on Saturday. I replaced the spring part of the belt tensioner last year ... or was it the year before?! Fairly recently anyway. It wouldn't surprise me if its bearing have now failed.

Water pump is an OEM metal impellar one. Replaced that maybe 3 years ago so should be good. Again, it span all right on Saturday.

Hopefully get it apart this evening after work before it gets too dark.
 
Bearmach, Allmakes, Britpart. Are these all the same company trying to reinvent itself? Land Rover pulley from RimmerBros is about £50 but the former 3 are all around a tenner.
 
On approaching the car my suspicions of the tensioner pulley being a common point of failure began to grow stronger. Don't ask me why. There was something about the car that just niggled at me.

P1020762.JPG

P1020761.JPG


On looking at it you an see the crack where it broke. One side of the crack is shiny and clearly is new. The other side is dull. My guess is that vibrations slowly caused fatigue and one side cracked. Now, when it failed I had taken the load off the engine to roll down the drive a bit, overshot the balance point (where handbrake not required) so I had briefly let the clutch up with a blip of throttle and then off again. I think this on/off strain flexed the arm and either the other side gave way catastrophically or the arm flexed, the belt was pulled sideways, caught up on something and snapped. The break was clean looking like it was sliced. However the belt wrapped twice around the crank-pulley stopping the engine dead and snapping the air-con belt.

P1020765.JPG

P1020767.JPG
 
Tensioner bracket appears to be STC4608. That's over £50 at RimmerBros!

The pulley itself (STC2128) spins fine although it got scored a little, presumably as it ricocheted out or possibly as it hit the concrete. My heart says replace it to be safe but that's another £50 for a genuine one!
 
Rick-the-Pick said:
I've gone through two of them in 12 years. I've reinforced the one I have on there now. These tensioners are a pain in the Ar*e.
Click to expand...

6 years? Proper Land Rover ones? That belt yanking all the time with the damper above it means it is bound to vibrate so going to susceptible to metal fatigue. Could do with a larger sample size to see what the expected life-span of these things are and get an idea of a routine replacement period!

Yes, I did think briefly of welding it (milliseconds!) and indeed of butchering the old one to reinforce the new one. I think I'll leave it though. Looks like it had lithium grease around the pivot. Something thick in there might absorb some energy.
 
Grrrrrr said:
6 years? Proper Land Rover ones? That belt yanking all the time with the damper above it means it is bound to vibrate so going to susceptible to metal fatigue. Could do with a larger sample size to see what the expected life-span of these things are and get an idea of a routine replacement period!

Yes, I did think briefly of welding it (milliseconds!) and indeed of butchering the old one to reinforce the new one. I think I'll leave it though. Looks like it had lithium grease around the pivot. Something thick in there might absorb some energy.
Click to expand...
I reckon that I'd be tempted to try and reinforce the replacement unit with a steel ring each side and through screws, that might strengthen the bracket.
 
Gazbo said:
I reckon that I'd be tempted to try and reinforce the replacement unit with a steel ring each side and through screws, that might strengthen the bracket.
Click to expand...

Bit worried the through screws might provide new crack initiation points. Looks like the indent would makebe take a ring of Quicksteel or something similar? Bit like putting Cellotape on a tile before drilling. It might stop the mini-cracks from starting in the first place? Not sure how well it would bond but should be OK if I clean with alcohol first.

Parts ordered but the pulley is on back-order, apparently. So, she'll be sitting on the drive for a few days longer now.
 
Grrrrrr said:
Tensioner bracket appears to be STC4608. That's over £50 at RimmerBros!

The pulley itself (STC2128) spins fine although it got scored a little, presumably as it ricocheted out or possibly as it hit the concrete. My heart says replace it to be safe but that's another £50 for a genuine one!
Click to expand...

Anything that is £50.00 from Rimmers is £10.00 everywhere else. Thought you would know that by now. Usually cracked by the hamfisted releasing belt tension. :D;)
 
your lucky it dropped out mine didnt break the belt but managed to tangle itself round the pulleys and I was in the middle of Gdansk and had to leave it there for a couple of day while i sourced a new one it also took a chunk out of the fan but not the radiator that time.
next time the fan blade broke it went through the radiaqtor and i was in Latvia then and had to bodge it up with resin
and then source a new fan. the tensioner runs on the cover for the FIP sprocket bolt and you need a big allen key to get it off
 
ovalandrover said:
your lucky it dropped out mine didnt break the belt but managed to tangle itself round the pulleys and I was in the middle of Gdansk and had to leave it there for a couple of day while i sourced a new one it also took a chunk out of the fan but not the radiator that time.
next time the fan blade broke it went through the radiaqtor and i was in Latvia then and had to bodge it up with resin
and then source a new fan. the tensioner runs on the cover for the FIP sprocket bolt and you need a big allen key to get it off
Click to expand...

Yes, I was very lucky. 10 minutes earlier I had been on a bypass travelling [cough]ty miles per hour.

There was a piece of plastic on the drive but I checked the fan. Need to work out where that came from before reassembly.
 
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