Series 3 Smoke from Solenoid

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OatMilkMan

OatMilkMan

Member
Posts
25
Location
London
Hello,

My name is Scott and after a childhood of reading LRMonthly I've managed to acquire a lovely Series 3 2.25 petrol.

So trying to learn as much as I can on the cuff, the previous owner had wired in a couple of aftermarket dials from the solenoid which I removed to take it back to its original state - this I managed to do and reconnect the circuit (thanks Haynes) but I noticed a smell coming from the battery's lead into the solenoid, personally not a big fan of smoke near petrol - especially when I'm sitting on top of the tank!

All jokes aside I want to remedy this serious issue and would like a bit of kind advice, I've attached a picture to help, is the smoke being caused by arcing as the lead's insulation has been burned or is there a bigger issue here causing the burning of the insulation itself?

Also should I put electrical tape around the spade connector itself? And could that also be a cause of the problem?

Also I am aware of the female spade connection sitting connected with no wire - slowly making my way through the electrical system.

Thanks in advance,

Scott
 

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The green/yellow one?
Don't know series cable colours but it might not be the correct spec cable?
High resistance causes stuff to get hot and melt. An underspeced cable can cause that as well as loose, dirty or broken terminals.
Is it smoking only when cranking?
 
The right hand cable on the solenoid is definitely past it’s sell by date, personally I would replace the solenoid
And clean up the cable contacts,
It’s that colour because it’s been arcing and getting very hot,
 
The contacts all look dirty I would first off take them off and clean them up [disconnect battery first].
Is the green yellow actually your battery lead? Ifso it will have current flowing through when engine running also.
 
Flossie said:
The green/yellow one?
Don't know series cable colours but it might not be the correct spec cable?
High resistance causes stuff to get hot and melt. An underspeced cable can cause that as well as loose, dirty or broken terminals.
Is it smoking only when cranking?
Click to expand...

Hi Flossie, thanks for replying - yes that's exactly right the yellow/green lead is the live from the battery. It seems to only be smoking when cranking.

Thanks again,

Scott
 
Europa486 said:
The right hand cable on the solenoid is definitely past it’s sell by date, personally I would replace the solenoid
And clean up the cable contacts,
It’s that colour because it’s been arcing and getting very hot,
Click to expand...

Hi Europa, thanks for replying - I think I see what you mean, so the blackening on the attached picture is because of the arcing? If so I will replace solenoid and do I need to replace the cables or just get new insulation for them?

Thanks again,

Scott
 

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Blackburn said:
The contacts all look dirty I would first off take them off and clean them up [disconnect battery first].
Is the green yellow actually your battery lead? Ifso it will have current flowing through when engine running also.
Click to expand...

Hi Blackburn, thanks for replying and great photo! Yes that's exactly right the yellow/green lead is the live from the battery. As a starter for 10 I will take them off and clean them up - can I then use heatshrink on those cables or is that not advisable?

Thanks again,

Scott
 
If it was me, I'd replace the cables, you don't know if some of the strands are broken/melted inside the insulation. Cables are expensive for what they are, especially if you get them from Halfords but if you don't replace them, you are always wondering if it's them causing the sluggish starting later on.

Col
 
OatMilkMan said:
Hi Europa, thanks for replying - I think I see what you mean, so the blackening on the attached picture is because of the arcing? If so I will replace solenoid and do I need to replace the cables or just get new insulation for them?

Thanks again,

Scott
Click to expand...
If the insulation is burnt/ melted then replace, but any corrosion by salt on the copper wire will raise its resistance so you won’t get your Full amperage to the starter, so for the small cost probably worth replacing instead of cleaning,

Colthebrummie beat me too it
 
Welcome to Series ownership!
The green/yellow wire might be household earth wire, in which case it needs to be replaced - it's not rated to carry the high current needed to crank a cold engine.
Safest option would be to check and replace all the heavy cables from battery to solenoid and starter. You can find suitable cable and terminals online e.g. https://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/751/category/124 and make your own cables, or you can buy them ready-made.
Series landies often have electrics that have been badly bodged by previous owners, so it's a good idea to check out your new purchase thoroughly and replace anything that looks dodgy.
 
These take 200 to 400 amps so even the slightest high resistance causes a lot of heat. clean it all and fit new cable, it will also start a lot better.
 
new solenoid and cable I personally would use welding cable new crimp lugs and brass washers and nut on the connections ,the welding cables are designed to take in-rushes of high current
the starter motor also deserves checking especially the brushes and retaining clips
 
Hi,i dont want to alarm you but if you can smell burning and its starting o.k there is a real danger of one day it wont fire up and when you keep cranking it will catch fire,this circuit is unfused and the solenoid can jam closed,
as previous written,the domestic earth cable is a serious no no,
i.e.m of pool,cornwall will make up battery and starter cables ie double insulated welding cable with the correct terminals etc to length,very nice firm and mail order etc,if i was you would keep a fire extinguisher handy,another option is to go to a scrappy and get the starter cables out of something like a ldv convoy diesel to keep you going,
Atb
Ryn
 
Colthebrummie said:
If it was me, I'd replace the cables, you don't know if some of the strands are broken/melted inside the insulation. Cables are expensive for what they are, especially if you get them from Halfords but if you don't replace them, you are always wondering if it's them causing the sluggish starting later on.

Col
Click to expand...
Brilliant, thank you - I've cleaned up the connections and ordered new cables - thank you for the advice!
 
rynner said:
Hi,i dont want to alarm you but if you can smell burning and its starting o.k there is a real danger of one day it wont fire up and when you keep cranking it will catch fire,this circuit is unfused and the solenoid can jam closed,
as previous written,the domestic earth cable is a serious no no,
i.e.m of pool,cornwall will make up battery and starter cables ie double insulated welding cable with the correct terminals etc to length,very nice firm and mail order etc,if i was you would keep a fire extinguisher handy,another option is to go to a scrappy and get the starter cables out of something like a ldv convoy diesel to keep you going,
Atb
Ryn
Click to expand...
Thank you Rynner, I definitely don't want that! I have already bought a fire extinguisher for the car but before reading your comment I already purchased this cable: https://www.autosparks.co.uk/bc301-land-rover-series-3-battery-to-solenoid-lead.html

Do you think it will suffice?

Thanks,

Scott
 
mystery said:
new solenoid and cable I personally would use welding cable new crimp lugs and brass washers and nut on the connections ,the welding cables are designed to take in-rushes of high current
the starter motor also deserves checking especially the brushes and retaining clips
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply Mystery, I will get brass washers and nuts but I've already ordered this cable: https://www.autosparks.co.uk/bc301-land-rover-series-3-battery-to-solenoid-lead.html

So I'm hoping that should be okay?
 
ExMil109 said:
Welcome to Series ownership!
The green/yellow wire might be household earth wire, in which case it needs to be replaced - it's not rated to carry the high current needed to crank a cold engine.
Safest option would be to check and replace all the heavy cables from battery to solenoid and starter. You can find suitable cable and terminals online e.g. https://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/751/category/124 and make your own cables, or you can buy them ready-made.
Series landies often have electrics that have been badly bodged by previous owners, so it's a good idea to check out your new purchase thoroughly and replace anything that looks dodgy.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply ExMil109!

I think the deeper I dive into the landy the more electrics I'm going to replace. I've ordered a new cable: https://www.autosparks.co.uk/bc301-land-rover-series-3-battery-to-solenoid-lead.html

And I've also ordered a new Solenoid to Starter cable from the same business. Hopefully that should solve my issues!

Thanks again,

Scott
 
Europa486 said:
If the insulation is burnt/ melted then replace, but any corrosion by salt on the copper wire will raise its resistance so you won’t get your Full amperage to the starter, so for the small cost probably worth replacing instead of cleaning,

Colthebrummie beat me too it
Click to expand...
Brilliant thank you again Europa and also @Colthebrummie for you advice. Cleaning everything up and replacing the heavy cables!

Thanks again,

Scott
 
I ended up replacing most of my wiring, each time I found a fault it was such a mess and had been altered so many times it was imposable to work out what was happening. It was quicker to cut the old wires out and run new. This also got rid of a lot of hidden connections that should never have been there but had been put in by previous owners. When ever I ran a new wire I ran a new earth along side it, this has made a huge difference to the number of faults.
 
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