Siii 109" transmission (?) problem...

OK, I have an ex-Army (1983) Siii 109"; I encountered a major problem last night after knocking off in the small hours from work (it being my daily use wagon).

The wagon refused to move properly after the engine started normally.

Symptoms: Only moves forward with very high revs, and a LOT of jerking and banging from the area of the gearbox. Obviously, not tried that again.

Reverse worked for about 6" then stopped, same problem.

In all cases, the range lever was selected to high. 4WD lever NOT touched.

On the possibility that it had somehow become stuck in 4WD, tried standard unlock of range level to low and back to high: No effect.

At this point, I was thinking (having phoned a freind) that the poss cause was a wound up transmission, so tried jacking up both front and rear axles, but there was no tell-tale unwinding of the wheels. Selecting range neutral and netral gear, I tried rotating the wheels manually whith them off the deck. No forward rotation was possible, but a touch of reverse rotation was possible before they, too, stopped.

I'm thinking all manner of problems, and don't know enough to decide one way or the other.

From what I've read, the worst cases here might be a buggered transfer box, a broken half shaft, or something else that has yet to reveal itself.

Transmission brake lock-up has been suggested, but at the rear wheels could be rotated backwards briefly, I'm not so sure about that one.

Ideas, please?

Certainly doesn't sound good

I'm no expert but it could be the handbrake, especially if you have a prop universal joint about to pop.

To isolate the problem after a careful inspection I'd go through a process of running in gear with transfer box in neutral and removing props and running in 4wd.

Remember if moving even in 2wd the front drive train is driven by the front wheels unless you have free wheeling hubs disengaged so the problem could be at the front.

Thinking about it with one wheel up the wheel should turn anyway as the axle is an open diff.

If it's the same both sides then diff sounds likely.

Could well be hand brake stuck,to check it first chock a wheel front and back just to make sure vehicle does not move while you are underneath. With hand brake leaver off it will be possible to rock the drum on the back of transfer box back and fore some.

^^^ plus 1 on the hand brake. I have seen them shred their linings after being applied with the vehicle rolling. For those that do not realise you can do untold damage applying the handbrake to a rolling vehicle, usually a broken halfshaft.

I had a similar-ish problem. I think handbrake is most likely for you but mine was the pinion bearing in the front diff packing up. At first it could be driven with a bit of noise but by the end it would totally lock up the front wheels if I didn't use the freewheeling hubs.

Reread post, transmission wind up would not stop vehicle.

K, thanks folks; It's been - and still is - a right saga getting the wagon home from work; I have RAC membership via my Barclays account (freebie add-on, damned handy!). So, 2 in the morning when this all happened, and RAC contacted a contractor, apparently gave him the wrong info, and he then turned up with a tilt & slide, problem with that, yep, he could winch (drag) the wagon onto it, but how do you get it off again at the other end if the wheels won't go round? Back to square one.

Recheduled the collection for later the same day (yesterday), and waited an hour and a half before RAC decided that the Hiab wasn't going to arrive within the available time window, so we had to recheduled it for tommorrow (Thurs). None too chuffed, as you'd imagine.

Still, Sun/Mon off, so I'll get to work on it then.

Will update at that time

Oh yeah, should have mentioned earlier, it's an ex-Army GS, doesn't have freewheeling hubs.

Well, finally got it home last night; RACs contractor turned up as re-scheduled, and it's now awaiting my attention at home over the weekend to try and sort this problem out. Here's hoping it's something simple!

OK, bit of a saga, but got the wagon home on Thursday care of an RAC contractor and a Hiab.

Here's the recovery saga...

On the day it locked up I called the RAC for the roadside-style recovery; I have RAC membership via my Barclays account (freebie add-on, damned handy!). So, 2 in the morning when this all happened, and RAC contacted a contractor, but apparently gave him the wrong info ("gearbox" is what his crib sheet said, not non-moving wheels!), so he then turned up with a tilt & slide, not a hiab. The problem with that being, yep, he could winch (drag) the wagon onto it, but how do you get it off again at the other end if the wheels won't go round? Back to square one. So, back to RC on the blower.

After ensuring the the recovery guy gave me a lift home (which was nice of them), they recheduled the collection for later the same day (Wednesday). I got in a half hour before they were due to arrive, and waited. And waited. An hour and a half later, the RAC decided that the Hiab wasn't going to arrive within the available time window, because the night shiuft there had somehow not informed the dat shift. Comms error, apparently. OK, annoying, but this is freebie RAC membership, so I took that on the chin. Recovery was then rescheduled for Thursday afternoon, and this time, a contractor with a hiab (WOO-HOO!) turned up in the specified time slot.

Anyway, three days later, and with a stack of favours owned to the lads at work for lifts given home at night (well out of their ways!), I was ready to do battle - I mean work - on the wagon, and it seems that I'm not going to get much chance to work on it today, as some bloody twit has parked right next to the front bumper, making it impossible to get the required space to (1) get the jack under it and (2) have the leverage to jack it up, dammit.

This, by the by, is the same nusiance car that over the last few weeks has been ****ing off ALL the neighbours for several doors up and down the road with his/her/its ****-poor parking. We haven't a clue who it is, but believe me, someone's gonna give the half-wit a bit of a chat - no tea - about it when they eventually meet up!

So, and this following a six-day-week at work, on my first day off of a pair of back-to-back rest days, the first would look as if it's going to be wasted, while I twiddle my thumbs, waiting for this jackass git to move their ruddy car.

Humph.

Also - I just found out that when he set it down off the hiab at home, the front wheel was able to rotate on its own, suggesting that 4WB was not engaged; Can't remember if I set the transfer lever to neutral, but it's an interesting sign, suggesting that it may not be transmission wind-up, but instead might be a seized transmission brake (which was the next step on the decision tree, of course).

You need to understand transmission wind up. It only occurs when driving vehicle on a hard surface [road] in 4WD and the difference in speed between front and rear wheels results in tension in the halfshafts,diffs, propshafts and transferbox. That is wind up.
It can not happen off road,wheel slip releases it If you jack one wheel of a landy that has been driven in a circle in 4WD on a hard surface you will see the tension let go.

Wind up will not cause your problem directly but could result in transmission damage if there is prolonged use of 4WD on the road,however the usual result is extra tire wear.

Yep, that gels with what I've been told by others as well.

The process of finding out what has actually gone wrong is simple enough, but to eliminate every possible likely cause, I'm using a fairly strict methodology, to save both duplication and missing something in error. I'll be checking, in order, for transmission windup, transmission brake lockup, and then to gears, high/low range lever, and then probably oiuigi board, as by then I'll likely be out of ideas

tottot said:

Wind up will not cause your problem directly but could result in transmission damage if there is prolonged use of 4WD on the road,however the usual result is extra tire wear.

Click to expand...

Hmm. Either way, the wheels locked up, so stuffed if I know why, but yeah, follow the logic, thanks.

Anyhow, I appear to have dodged a bullet or two

Having jacked up Odie off all four wheels, I set neutral in both the gear and transfer boxes, and gingerly released the handbrake: All four wheels were able to move freely, showing transmission windup to either have been relieved there and then, or to not having been there in the first place; it also proved that the transmission brake wasn't stuck, which was a nice bonus :mrgreen:

The wheels now go round, and the wagon can move again - IT'S ALIIIIIIVE! (ahem :5bblush5

Anyhow, a look under the wagon didn't show any obvious breakages, damage, or missing parts or linkages, so I'm still at a loss to explain this as anything other than a severe transmission lock-up of some form, with the balance of likelihood (apologies, Tottot, but this has been suggested, now I've managed to get him on the blower - after I got the wagon off the deck, of course! - by a former REME tech I know) as being transmission differential wind-up. How the helll this happened is another story altogether, and I don't have that storybook as yet.

Many thanks for all the helpful comments, they're appreciated

Seems I spoke too soon.

Damn thing went and did it again when I tried to drive to work in the wagon this afternoon.

Having spoken to a couple of mates on the phone, the concensus is that it's most likely to be continued differential windup, most likely in the front prop. Which means if the initial (to be repeated) attempts fail, that prop's coming off, to cure this foul-language-inducing watchamacallit.

So, we're going to have at it next week - my next day off - and see if we can sort this :censored: problem out once and for all. I have a Bigger Hammer (tm applied for) waiting in the wings, of course.

I'll update the thread when there's more to report.

could you not just pull the rear drive shafts to be able to push / winch it for recovery?

Reckon you're wrong on wind up. Start again describing symptoms as accurately as possible.

It could be something like a snapped half shaft snagging

blue beasty said:

Reckon you're wrong on wind up. Start again describing symptoms as accurately as possible.

It could be something like a snapped half shaft snagging

Click to expand...

Or broken bits in a diff jamming up the gear teeth or uj broken in swivel housing.

tottot said:

Or broken bits in a diff jamming up the gear teeth or uj broken in swivel housing.

Click to expand...

Agree, much more likely something is busted.

Easy way....in neutral, handbrake off, push it along with some mates. Goes ok, it's probably gear box.

No dice...You can check by undoing propshafts at diffs and pushing again. it goes...it's gearbox but weird...maybe collapsed bearing or transmisson brake gone very funny. However, still doesn't roll, it's axles, so you need first two seps of slow way.

Slow way.

You need to jack up wheel at a time and turn, to cause all internal bits to rotate.

Put in neutal transfer, jack one rear wheel and turn. This should cause prop to rotate freely. Put that down and try other side, get same result. Any funny noises, pull halfshafts to check first, then remove prop and try again. Still funny noise -- it's the diff.

Still not found the problem....

Do same on front axle.

Still not found the problem....

It's gear box (most likely) or transfer box. Easiest first step is to drop the oil. Look for lumps of metal, that many tell you which box. Bottoms can come off and you can peer inside if you want, but you might as well pull the whoel box out and fix it on the bench.


Mine snapped a gearbox shaft and had similar symptoms to you.

Thanks for the comments; until this coming Tuesday, when a couple of more knowledgable mates (exceptionally more knowledgable than me, yes!) are available to come round and offer long sucking teeth sounds and inflict pain on my wallet , there's litttle more I can add; I'll update the thread once I know more.

R.