Shocks. Done To Death But Humour Me!!

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fortgrange

Active Member
Posts
544
Location
Rickmansworth
I know, covered many times and I've searched til I've needed matchsticks to keep my eyes open but still need some up to date opinions.

My P38 runs on the original factory fitted genuine shocks (50k miles) and as far as I can tell they still work fine, but I find the ride on less than perfect surfaces a tad harsh.

So I want to change them, opinions seem to favour originals but I've got them and fear spending big dosh on genuine new ones won't definitely give me what I'm after even if there is a certain amount of new for old improvement.

Reading the different company's cock and bull Koni seem to think that their very expensive shocks will not only improve spirited driving manners but are more comfortable than standard. This I find hard to believe, in my experience Gas shocks whilst improving road holding only ever make a ride firmer. But if anybody out there is using them and can comment? Expensive mistake if it turns the ride into a filling extractor!!

I'd quite happily put the cheapie Britparts on if it softened the ride up and replace them every year when they fall apart, as all four are the same price as one Koni!! Others out there include Terrafirma and Boge (close to original I believe) or the Cellular Dynamic things, anybody using these?

I know it's all subjective and my idea of a comfy ride is different from somebody else.

I'd quite happily put up with a Roly Poly ride if it smoothed out the bumps on our crappy roads. Just like the Classics used to on their soft springs. Or is that not achievable on air sprung RR's?

Thanks for reading my waffling and here's hoping for some good varied opinions.
 
The gas in gas shocks is there for one reason and one reason only. To raise the boiling point of the oil. Boge are OEM so will be possibly the same shocks Land rover sell for mega bucks with their name stamped on them.
 
wammers said:
The gas in gas shocks is there for one reason and one reason only. To raise the boiling point of the oil. Boge are OEM so will be possibly the same shocks Land rover sell for mega bucks with their name stamped on them.
Click to expand...

Boge seem to be the safest bet, as they are not expensive but seem to get favorable reviews.

Datatek said:
Adjustable shocks may be the answer if they are available for the P38.
Click to expand...

The Konis are adjustable with settings from 0 (softest) to 4 (hardest), couldn't find any reviews of people using them on 0 (That's what I'd have them set on) and some say 1 is still pretty harsh!!
 
fortgrange said:
Boge seem to be the safest bet, as they are not expensive but seem to get favorable reviews.



The Konis are adjustable with settings from 0 (softest) to 4 (hardest), couldn't find any reviews of people using them on 0 (That's what I'd have them set on) and some say 1 is still pretty harsh!!
Click to expand...

If you drive around solo you cannot expect the same comfort level as when fully loaded. Which the suspension is designed to accommodate. The shocks have to damp two and a half tons and maybe five fat gits and a boot full off luggage fully loaded. They are bound to be harsher running light.
 
wammers said:
If you drive around solo you cannot expect the same comfort level as when fully loaded. Which the suspension is designed to accommodate. The shocks have to damp two and a half tons and maybe five fat gits and a boot full off luggage fully loaded. They are bound to be harsher running light.
Click to expand...

I appreciate that wammers, but to be honest I still find it a bit harsh when there's me, the wife, the 3 lads(men) and the dog on board!!

I'm just trying achieve that nice gentle softened thud when you hit a pot hole or speed bump as opposed to a hard whack (A bit over the top) I get now.

I'm sure I used to get it in my old Classic's, or is it the looking back through the Rose Coloured Glasses effect.
 
fortgrange said:
I appreciate that wammers, but to be honest I still find it a bit harsh when there's me, the wife, the 3 lads(men) and the dog on board!!

I'm just trying achieve that nice gentle softened thud when you hit a pot hole or speed bump as opposed to a hard whack (A bit over the top) I get now.

I'm sure I used to get it in my old Classic's, or is it the looking back through the Rose Coloured Glasses effect.
Click to expand...

Shocker mounting rubbers might sort that out a little, they get compressed and harden over time as do the other suspension rubbers. It depends how taut the rest of the suspension is. Your air suspension maybe set a little to high on standard that will give a harsher ride.
 
Maybe they have worn they will generally do this slowly over time lessening dampness over time and you won't notice untill its come to this point. So you think your ride is harsh go try a defender then you will know what is harsh .
 
P38 shocks are double acting. That means there is about 25% resistance on compression and 75% resistance on rebound. A new set can transform a cars ride characteristics.
 
wammers said:
The gas in gas shocks is there for one reason and one reason only. To raise the boiling point of the oil. Boge are OEM so will be possibly the same shocks Land rover sell for mega bucks with their name stamped on them.
Click to expand...
I thought the Gas was there for the same reason it is used in Undercarriage Oleo Struts.....as a compressable meduim on the other side of a flexible Diaphram...

As Hydraulic Oil (like most liquids) is incompressable, the shock of sudden compression is likely to do damge to the cylinder, so a diaphram is fitted in a complex arrangement of baffles and flex plates etc so that as the oil acts on the piston and baffle plates, as the leg compresses, this compression is allowed to compress the diaphram containing the gas, which is compressable, and takes the sudden impact out of the movement, and then as the gas reexpands, this acts against the piston and forces the oil back the other way on the rebound, back through the baffles etc to dampen the osscilation and movement....

Or is an Aircraft Oleo Strut just a bit more complex than a Vehicle Strut??:p;):D
 
wammers said:
Shocker mounting rubbers might sort that out a little, they get compressed and harden over time as do the other suspension rubbers. It depends how taut the rest of the suspension is. Your air suspension maybe set a little to high on standard that will give a harsher ride.
Click to expand...

Bushes seem ok, not too brittle. It's a low mileage example but over ten years old so will need replacing in the not too distant future. Air suspension is in good nick with heights recently checked and probably like most on here who've owned these for many years you tend to notice visually if the heights are a little off. I'm convinced it's a shock issue.

defender300td1 said:
Maybe they have worn they will generally do this slowly over time lessening dampness over time and you won't notice untill its come to this point. So you think your ride is harsh go try a defender then you will know what is harsh .
Click to expand...

Too true, I would imagine a P38 without shocks would still be softer!!

New shocks it is just which one's?

For information prices for 4 are approx

Genuine £400
Konis £360
Terrafirma £280
Cellular Dynamic £130
Boge £100
Britpart Cheapies £80
 
Saint.V8 said:
I thought the Gas was there for the same reason it is used in Undercarriage Oleo Struts.....as a compressable meduim on the other side of a flexible Diaphram...

As Hydraulic Oil (like most liquids) is incompressable, the shock of sudden compression is likely to do damge to the cylinder, so a diaphram is fitted in a complex arrangement of baffles and flex plates etc so that as the oil acts on the piston and baffle plates, as the leg compresses, this compression is allowed to compress the diaphram containing the gas, which is compressable, and takes the sudden impact out of the movement, and then as the gas reexpands, this acts against the piston and forces the oil back the other way on the rebound, back through the baffles etc to dampen the osscilation and movement....

Or is an Aircraft Oleo Strut just a bit more complex than a Vehicle Strut??:p;):D
Click to expand...

As a preference, does this translate into Koni or Boge:D
 
Saint.V8 said:
I thought the Gas was there for the same reason it is used in Undercarriage Oleo Struts.....as a compressable meduim on the other side of a flexible Diaphram...

As Hydraulic Oil (like most liquids) is incompressable, the shock of sudden compression is likely to do damge to the cylinder, so a diaphram is fitted in a complex arrangement of baffles and flex plates etc so that as the oil acts on the piston and baffle plates, as the leg compresses, this compression is allowed to compress the diaphram containing the gas, which is compressable, and takes the sudden impact out of the movement, and then as the gas reexpands, this acts against the piston and forces the oil back the other way on the rebound, back through the baffles etc to dampen the osscilation and movement....

Or is an Aircraft Oleo Strut just a bit more complex than a Vehicle Strut??:p;):D
Click to expand...

That's a better explanation than I could give but that's how I thought a gas filled shock worked.
On a non gas filled, part the piston was spring loaded on the rod to give a softer initial reaction on the one and only I took apart out of curiosity.
 
Saint.V8 said:
I thought the Gas was there for the same reason it is used in Undercarriage Oleo Struts.....as a compressable meduim on the other side of a flexible Diaphram...

As Hydraulic Oil (like most liquids) is incompressable, the shock of sudden compression is likely to do damge to the cylinder, so a diaphram is fitted in a complex arrangement of baffles and flex plates etc so that as the oil acts on the piston and baffle plates, as the leg compresses, this compression is allowed to compress the diaphram containing the gas, which is compressable, and takes the sudden impact out of the movement, and then as the gas reexpands, this acts against the piston and forces the oil back the other way on the rebound, back through the baffles etc to dampen the osscilation and movement....

Or is an Aircraft Oleo Strut just a bit more complex than a Vehicle Strut??:p;):D
Click to expand...
that sounds more like an hydraulic accumulator, were fitted to self levelling struts on rrc ,
this isnt a bad explanation of gas shocks etc http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...u4CYAQ&usg=AFQjCNHjbvshHoRNE14A4BvnJ1o5OqbgVg
 
Last edited:
Saint.V8 said:
I thought the Gas was there for the same reason it is used in Undercarriage Oleo Struts.....as a compressable meduim on the other side of a flexible Diaphram...

As Hydraulic Oil (like most liquids) is incompressable, the shock of sudden compression is likely to do damge to the cylinder, so a diaphram is fitted in a complex arrangement of baffles and flex plates etc so that as the oil acts on the piston and baffle plates, as the leg compresses, this compression is allowed to compress the diaphram containing the gas, which is compressable, and takes the sudden impact out of the movement, and then as the gas reexpands, this acts against the piston and forces the oil back the other way on the rebound, back through the baffles etc to dampen the osscilation and movement....

Or is an Aircraft Oleo Strut just a bit more complex than a Vehicle Strut??:p;):D
Click to expand...

No the Nitrogen in an Oleo is the suspension medium. There are no springs in an Oleo. They are sprung by HP nitrogen damped by oil.
 
wammers said:
No the Nitrogen in an Oleo is the suspension medium. There are no springs in an Oleo. They are sprung by HP nitrogen damped by oil.
Click to expand...
I never mentioned Springs...and As per the description.....the Oil is passed through a series of baffle plates to dampen the re-expansion of the compressed gas (which is acting like the 'spring')...maybe my explaination wasn't worded correctedly....:eek:
 
Datatek said:
That's a better explanation than I could give but that's how I thought a gas filled shock worked.
On a non gas filled, part the piston was spring loaded on the rod to give a softer initial reaction on the one and only I took apart out of curiosity.
Click to expand...

The gas is there to stop air bubbles forming in the oil as it heats therefore reducing the damping effect. Because oil full of air bubbles would flow through the restriction valve easier than the unaerated oil would.
 
wammers said:
The gas is there to stop air bubbles forming in the oil as it heats therefore reducing the damping effect. Because oil full of air bubbles would flow through the restriction valve easier than the unaerated oil would.
Click to expand...

wammers first helpful post :attention::faint2::faint2::faint2::faint2::faint2:
 
Saint.V8 said:
I never mentioned Springs...and As per the description.....the Oil is passed through a series of baffle plates to dampen the re-expansion of the compressed gas (which is acting like the 'spring')...maybe my explaination wasn't worded correctedly....:eek:
Click to expand...

I understood it. But maybe other would not have. The struts on the L322 are very akin to Oleos. Gas, in this case air as the spring and oil as the damper, all in one unit.
 
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