series chassis?

Good evening all.

Am i totally crazy or is there such a thing as a series 2 or 3 chassis that uses defender coil springs?

Cheers Landy-Lee

landy-lee said:

Good evening all.

Am i totally crazy or is there such a thing as a series 2 or 3 chassis that uses defender coil springs?

Cheers Landy-Lee

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No….
You made them yourself by shortening Range Rover chassis.

You often see them for sale as complete vehicles on ebay. But really they should be on Q plates as they have had a major component change that isn’t allowed - unless of course it was 30 plus years ago.
Q plate and type approval is the correct route, if a chassis is modified or replaced with a non original item.

No proper Landrover has coil springs, nor needs them. Leave that fancy stuff for the Freelanders.

Wasn't the stage 1 technically a series 3?

Yes, and on proper springs. None of these pig tail coil things.

Leaf springs all the way. 2,000 years of product development in every leaf.

The other thing you did was to take an unmodified range rover chassis, and shorten a 109 body to fit. "100-inch hybrids" were a thing when both series' (with good bodywork and rotten chassis) and range rovers (with the opposite) were cheaply available.

V8bob said:

You often see them for sale as complete vehicles on ebay. But really they should be on Q plates as they have had a major component change that isn’t allowed - unless of course it was 30 plus years ago.
Q plate and type approval is the correct route, if a chassis is modified or replaced with a non original item.

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I'm guess you haven't actually bothered reading the guidelines then.... as that mostly definitely isn't what it says....

so how exactly can you change from leaf springs to coil springs without altering the chassis?

V8bob said:

so how exactly can you change from leaf springs to coil springs without altering the chassis?

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That isn’t what you said earlier either. There are lots of ways. But the entire process is a self declaration one. There is no test or inspection to tell you if it needs to examined.

There are plenty of things you can do - but the legality and resale can be very questionable.
If you choose to ignore the rules that are specific about altering a chassis - then I, and many law abiding people with a conscious will not touch the result when you choose to sell it on.
devalue a vehicle if you so wish!

You should try asking your insurance broker how they feel about you altering the chassis on your vehicle, or fitting a modified chassis that has no type approval?

V8bob said:

There are plenty of things you can do - but the legality and resale can be very questionable.
If you choose to ignore the rules that are specific about altering a chassis - then I, and many law abiding people with a conscious will not touch the result when you choose to sell it on.
devalue a vehicle if you so wish!

You should try asking your insurance broker how they feel about you altering the chassis on your vehicle, or fitting a modified chassis that has no type approval?

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FFS try reading the actual guidance rather than spouting BS will you!

300bhp/ton said:

That isn’t what you said earlier either. There are lots of ways. But the entire process is a self declaration one. There is no test or inspection to tell you if it needs to examined.

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@landy-lee
If you ALTER the chassis, which you would prolly have to do to fit the springs you want then it becomes a radically altered vehicle.
So read the regs.
(This from the govt website
"Get a ‘Q’ registration number
You will not be able to keep your vehicle’s original registration number if one of the following applies:

• it has fewer than 8 points
• it has a second-hand or altered chassis, monocoque bodyshell or frame
• there’s evidence that 2 vehicles have been welded together to form one (ie ‘cut and shut’)

Your vehicle must pass the relevant type approval test to get a ‘Q’ prefix registration number."


So the short answer is, yes, you can do it legally, but it is a bit of a faff. The test for type approval may or may not be a pain.
IVA shouldn't be neccesary I doubt, just a visual inspection, which is quicker and cheaper.

Once it is properly registered then insurance, even if you have to do it through a specialist, isn't that difficult and can be surprisingly cheap.

This from a bloke (me) who rana kit car club for years and has known about SVA and IVA for a very long time.

There are of course those who do it and don't tell anyone, the vehicle will pass the MOT although the tester may cock an eyebrow or two, if you don't tell your insurer, fair enough you take that risk. But the chassis wil or should have a number on it. Something else to be considered.

Speaking personally I'd either not bother or do it the proper way, just make sure you have time on your hands and another vehicle to run around in.

And there is this old thread on doing it here.

From the official guidelines relating to permitted upgrades and still be t&t exempt,
veedub folk, as a pal is are up on this stuff with t25 vans being turned into campers,

'Changes of a type that were made when in production or within 10 years of the end of production'

Thats a definite yes to swapping for a newer diesel lump,

'Axles and running gear have been changed to improve safety,efficiency or environmental performance'

Thats a definite yes to discs and springs.

Stanleysteamer said:

@landy-lee
If you ALTER the chassis, which you would prolly have to do to fit the springs you want then it becomes a radically altered vehicle.
So read the regs.
(This from the govt website
"Get a ‘Q’ registration number
You will not be able to keep your vehicle’s original registration number if one of the following applies:

• it has fewer than 8 points
• it has a second-hand or altered chassis, monocoque bodyshell or frame
• there’s evidence that 2 vehicles have been welded together to form one (ie ‘cut and shut’)

Your vehicle must pass the relevant type approval test to get a ‘Q’ prefix registration number."

Vehicle registration

How to register your vehicle and the cost - new registrations, kit cars, rebuilds, radically altered vehicles, old and classic vehicles, vehicle identification numbers, Q plates

www.gov.uk

So the short answer is, yes, you can do it legally, but it is a bit of a faff. The test for type approval may or may not be a pain.
IVA shouldn't be neccesary I doubt, just a visual inspection, which is quicker and cheaper.

Once it is properly registered then insurance, even if you have to do it through a specialist, isn't that difficult and can be surprisingly cheap.

This from a bloke (me) who rana kit car club for years and has known about SVA and IVA for a very long time.

There are of course those who do it and don't tell anyone, the vehicle will pass the MOT although the tester may cock an eyebrow or two, if you don't tell your insurer, fair enough you take that risk. But the chassis wil or should have a number on it. Something else to be considered.

Speaking personally I'd either not bother or do it the proper way, just make sure you have time on your hands and another vehicle to run around in.

And there is this old thread on doing it here.

Series 2 coil conversion

Hi has anyone here done a series 2 or 3 with coil suspension on the original chassis ?

www.landyzone.co.uk

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It is actually more complicated than that.

There are more than one set of regs/guidance. You have radically altered, but also rebuilt:

They are similar, but subtly different. But there is no guidance or test to tell you which regs apply to your vehicle. You have to guess.

And as said, the entire process is a self declaration anyway. This gives the DVLA the power to then remove pretty much any vehicle should they wish too.

All you can do is interpret the information. Even phoning up the DVLA will only give the 'opinion' of the person you are speaking to. Not a black and white that this is ok or that isn't.

Generally 'modifying' the chassis would make a vehicle fall into the "must need an IVA and loose its identify' category. But clearly there is more going on here than meets they eye. As fitting a rollcage modifies the chassis. Yet I'm willing to bet no a single vehicle has had an IVA just because of a rollcage.

The DVLA provide no definitions on what any of the guidance means. Is fitting a new rear half chassis also a modification? What about if it uses different gauge steel or a different crossmember design?

The .gov site clearly says:


What does same specification actually mean? Surely a Td5 style rear cross member and fuel tank on a pre Td5 Defender would not be 'original' specification. But seems to be the norm in what is sold.

Richards chassis for example use a different construction technique, 4 bits of metal welded at the edges to make a box section. Would any vehicle with one of these be a Q plate candidate? Defender factory chassis is made from 2 C sections having only 2 welds not 4. Clearly a very different specification.

Or is the term meant in a more general sense. aka a box tube ladder chassis of the approximately the same dimensions and strength. In the parts world most pattern parts have a slight variation, so this would seem quite reasonable.

I'm not saying you can convert to coils, but it most certainly is not a clean cut answer one way or the other, as it would depend on how exactly you go about it. And how you interpret the meaning of original and specification.

Remember these regs where mostly brought in to try and stop ringers, i.e. 2 crashed cars. Maybe a BMW 3 Series or Metro etc in the late 80s early 90s. Where the cars would be cut in half and welded together and passed off as a single vehicle, rather than a mix of 2 damaged ones. These regs where never designed to stop people doing stuff to Land Rovers in the fashion that is normally done.


The entire set of guidance is vague at best, i.e.


What does 'steering assembly' actually mean? Which bits are or aren't included? Would HD steering arms mean it isn't original? How about changing the steering wheel?

So, it looks like we all agree, if you modify a chassis to fit coils instead of leaf springs the correct route would end up with type approval and a Q plate!

I can’t wait for everyone to completely take the pìss out of their own version of the rules. That way we can all be banned from owning anything but a modern euro box.

If you don’t want a series buy something else for gods sake with whatever springs flick your bean.

The early coil sprung 90s and 110s will start to become tax, MOT and emissions exempt over the next few years with age.

It would probably be cheaper and less trouble to buy one of those.