Running problems already...please help.

Hello all.

I'm new to Diesels, so really need some expert help please.

Well 3 weeks in to owning a Freelander and I'm having issues!

It is 2003 and has 97k on the clock. After I bought it I changed the oil, oil filter, and the crankcase filter has been changed for the new BMW type.

After doing this, it was running fine.

Next day, filled with diesel and I drove down to Devon, caravan on the back, and it started running lumpy about 50 miles from home. Mostly noticable at low revs, when pulling away, or when the car is cruising at a constant speed and a steady throttle position. It's like if a petrol engine misfires, that's the best way I can describle it.

Whilst in Devon, I added some injector cleaner and now the tank of fuel, and cleaner has run through, and has seemed to help a little in terms of performance seems better, but the "misfire" remains.

Since returning home I have tried the following with no improvement;

Disconnected maf and tried driving, made no difference. Removed maf, looked spotless, refitted and reconnected.

Fitted EGR bypass.

Checked vacuum hoses on top side of engine, all good. (not got underneath to check others??)

Checked connection on fuel rail pressure sensor, looks clean and shiny!

Checked connections on injectors, all good.

I've been out working on it all evening, and I'm running out of ideas.

When the car starts from cold, the misfire doesn't happen until it warms up a little 2-3mins. If the car is at a stand still, and I rev it, it misfires pretty much all through the revs. When driving hard it performs excellently, apart from an initial miss if the car is at low revs 1000 - 2000 or before the Turbo is working. If I keep the revs higher than 2000rpm it seems fine. When running at a constant speed, at any speed/revs, and I'm just holding it steady on the throttle it starts missing. If I put my foot down a little on the accelerator, it picks up and is nice and smooth. I also get "diesel knock" when it "misfires".

I get a little wisp of white smoke on start up, but soon clears. No noticable smoke when driving.

So, to sum up, at low revs and a low load it runs rough, at higher revs, or foot down under load it goes really well, and I mean really well up to the red line.

I would really appreciate your input, I'm thinking of trying the fuel filter next, and maybe removing and cleaning the fuel rail pressure sensor, but thought that gave trouble when the car was under load and I have the opposite to that???

Thanks in advance!

Nev.

I have been reading about the fuel pumps on this model, rear wheel arch one, and mine is very noisy. It can be heard easily inside the car when you turn on the ignition, but the engine does drown out the sound when started. Is that normal?

Also, could that be be the cause of the fault as I have poor running at a low load, and that is the low pressure fuel pump I understand? Or am I way off the mark in terms of how it works.

Thanks again.

Do a search for "leak back" on here. It could be that you have one or more injectors playing up. It could also be the fuel pressure sensor.

Yeah, I'll second that, my first stop would be fuel pressure sensor then rear wheel arch fuel pump....

Hi Haystacks,

Your 1st post describes all the symptoms of a failing MAF - underfuelling which gives rubbish performance and rough running under 2000rpm until the turbo gets well under way. Except you say disconnecting it makes no improvement. You can tell nothing about the MAF just by looking at it - it will almost always we spotless - but may well not give correct signals to the ECU.

Can we take it that the air-cleaner is OK and the turbo hoses have no splits or leaks?

Your 2nd post is the other place I was thinking of when I read the 1st.
Because the fuel filter is such a pig to get at it is often neglected. Should be changed at 60K but a lot of them aren't.
The low pressure wheel-arch fuel pump itself can be a bother - I used to think that it would be a 'black & white case' of either it works or it doesn't - but no - they can run erratically and inefficiently especially if the filter is partly clogged up.

My fuel pump failed totally at 85K and very, very few seem to get past 100K.
Plenty cheap ones on eBay but as the job is an akward one, you don't want to be doing it again in 2 or 3 months time. I replaced pump and filter together and the engine runs faultlessly now - no hesitation on running out of steam 'brick wall' when overtaking which is the classic diesel fuel filter symptom.

As for the MAF - don't just blindly go and buy a replacement full price Bosch original type. Have a look on here and on RoverRon's website and compare the price of a Synergy2a+ tuning-box and the much cheaper Pierburg MAF which it is programmed to work with as an alternative. Lots of sound troubleshooting info on his site:
Tuning-diesels for synergy tuning modules.

Lots more to check I'm afraid.

Cheers,

Singvogel.

Your saying "kept above 2000rpm it's fine", if it tows fine and pulls hard at high revs then it isn't the low pressure pump since it is able to keep up with high demand.

At 97k it's very likely to be injectors.

I had this problem with my 03 Kalahari. It would run well for ages and then it would come back, sounded awful and no power. Over the last couple of weeks I could hardly use the car.
I decided to change the air filter and put some injector cleaner in the tank. Hey presto, perfect. I drove it for about 8 miles and it ran like new, quiet and smooth, plenty of power, but on the way back home the fault returned with a vengeance, even worse than before, I just about got it home.
I removed the covers of the injectors and air box. New filter was still in place, I had hoped it had moved and blocked the air intake. Like you, I removed and inspected all the injector connections and they all looked good.
At this point, I could see the £ signs looming and all the things I had read about TD4 running problems. In desperation, I started the car and listened to the clattery running. Like you I thought it sounded like a petrol engine with a bad plug. At that point I decided to loosen each of the injector connections in turn, with it running. Each time I loosened one, it naturally sounded worse but when I got to cylinder 3, even before I could loosen the connector it sounded worse, touching the connection affected the running. I switched off and took it apart, looking inside the female connector I could just see the connection points were slightly misaligned. I used a jewellers screwdriver to gently adjust the tension above and below the central connection point. When I put it back together, the car ran perfectly. Moving the connector now has no effect on the running.
I hope this might help you with your problem.

Cheers,

Andy

Thanks so much everyone for your replies.

I don't think it's the maf as if anything it runs worse when disconnected. But I can't totally rule it out I guess.

Injectors, is what I initially thought, and it could well be, but why would it run perfectly at certain revs and I have also noticed that when the engine is cold there is no "misfire" until it has warmed up a little.

Linked to the above comment, does the diesel engine have an equivalent of a automatic choke on a petrol engine, if so it could be why the car runs ok when cold and that's functional, delivering more fuel?

The more I drive it the more it feels like it's being starved of fuel at low revs. If I drive it really gently, allowing it to pull away on the tickover and really gently accelerate I can almost prevent the "misfire"?? There appears to be no miss on tickover at all.

I also half filled the tank with Esso diesel yesterday, and added some Millers additive as recommended by many and the better quality fuel, (previously filled up at Asda) seems to have helped it run a little better?

The airfilter looks Ok but I'm going to change that today hopefully, I'm also going to remove and clean the fuel rail pressure sensor (if I can find out what size long reach socket I need to buy) as suggested, and double check injector connections.

If that makes no difference I think I'll try changing the fuel pump and filter, as it is noisy and probably needs changing.

If I don't have any joy today, I will take it to my local garage and see if they can plug it in and find any fault codes which may help point me in the right direction, and they may do a leak back test on injectors etc.

Thanks again!!

UPDATE!

Tried things listed above. No difference, so I have contacted the garage where I purchased it and they are going to arrange it to be taken in for diagnostics.

I will update with any findings and outcomes.

Haystacks said:

Injectors, is what I initially thought, and it could well be, but why would it run perfectly at certain revs and I have also noticed that when the engine is cold there is no "misfire" until it has warmed up a little.

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because the injectors have to be able to deliver the precisely calculated quantities required for the temperature, speed and load conditions imposed on the engine.

when tested they may deliver correctly at low and max needle lift but be out of range in between.

got a problem with my 2002 td4,it starts great when cold,runs great when warm but if i stop it when its hot it nearly flattens the battery trying to start it until it gets cold again.anyone any ideas

simmo512 said:

got a problem with my 2002 td4,it starts great when cold,runs great when warm but if i stop it when its hot it nearly flattens the battery trying to start it until it gets cold again.anyone any ideas

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Hi simmo, and welcome to LandyZone.

You might have been better to start a new thread - but never mind.

You have described the classic symptoms of a failed camshaft sensor try a search on here and all will be revealed.

It's an easy fix.

Cheers,

Singvogel.

Chaser said:

because the injectors have to be able to deliver the precisely calculated quantities required for the temperature, speed and load conditions imposed on the engine.

when tested they may deliver correctly at low and max needle lift but be out of range in between.

Click to expand...

Thanks.

It looks like you were correct. Garage had a look at it this afternoon, they think it's an injector too!

Not sure on which one yet, no faults showing on diagnostics.

I will update when I know for sure.

Haystacks,

I've ordered a new wiring loom for the injectors, about £41. My fault returned and it's the connection to cylinder 3. I've been told that this is quite a common fault and your description matches mine completely.

Good luck with it,
Andy

andybelfast said:

Haystacks,

I've ordered a new wiring loom for the injectors, about £41. My fault returned and it's the connection to cylinder 3. I've been told that this is quite a common fault and your description matches mine completely.

Good luck with it,
Andy

Click to expand...

Hi Andy.

I've tried wiggling the wires with the engine running, and it makes no difference. If the connection was poor, I'm sure I would be able to cure the misfire by doing that?

Mine has done 97,000 miles, and most people say thats the sort of miles that the injectors start to fail.

I'm planning on replacing all 4 with reconditioned units, but I will be annoyed if it doesn't resolve it.

Search for "leak back test", on here and on any of the Rover owner's forums, there is a simple way to check your injectors to see if one is failing, and which one (it's unusual for all to go at once), you can then just swap one injector and get your vehicle back working again for less money

Well finally I've got the Freelander sorted. It was an Injector.

In the end I did it myself after I sourced a set of 4 one year old injectors so I could replace the lot.

Running great again now, thanks for all the help and advice!