RFC - Diagnostic Software

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fanatic said:
yes I read your reply and in a polite way suggested:-
1)if you don't like their methods of doing things-make your own
2)You don't have the skills to make one then buy another make.

Your whining like a bitch, life is not fair and capitalism is how things are.
If you have some constructive ideas I'd be interested.

If I could feel the need, which I can't I would buy a competitors product and reverse engineer by logging data flow.

Feel free to reply if it does not involve -the big boys are picking on me and lifes not fair
Click to expand...

i dont need to make my own, there are other company's that make other units.
i already offered other ideas, RSW should be due and day now.

Fanatic stop picking on me will you...... Ahhh only kidding!
 
P38 Ireland

I of course apologize that i might have rubbed you up the wrong way with my comments, but in all fairness i did pre apologize in my initial post that my comments might not sit well with everyone, and quite frankly there was absolutely no justification at all for the bitterness in your response. would you appreciate in response that i also wished you loose your house and your job, i think not.

It was never my intent to put down anyone who should wish to try and follow in our footsteps and indeed if the original poster should wish to solicit our help, i would be more than happy to oblige in respect of provision of information to a certain degree, furthermore i would also indicate to Story that an all in one interface is definitely the way to go.

If Story does well, so be it, that just how it goes and reason for me to up my own game. It has never really been any different to me. But as i said, and as is still absolutely 100% valid, i know how really hard it is and how much it costs to get where we are. If Story is able to get people to do that for free, then fair play to him i say.

As you bring the personal element into discussion i would happily agree that i am myself personally not exactly everyone's cup of tea or even the most likable or agreeable of characters, I personally have an ego the size of Texas, and have a very strong opinion of myself and my capabilities, and I certainly do not suffer fools well, as mentioned. Although as many have noted and to who i give thanks, if you treat me with due respect, you will get the same back and me and my team strive to give nothing but the best levels of customer service.

I have also clearly demonstrated on this board, i am also equally able to deal with almost anyone politely, regardless of the degree of provocation.

It is however these very same supposedly negative attributes in me that i have that have served me so very well and in fact every Land Rover owner so well.

Back in 1996, there was but the one dealer option for P38 owners and i alone with my self opinionated attitude dared to challenge that. As a result i produced the much copied alternate in the form of our 10K ROVACOM which has allowed independents the world over to compete with dealers and bring down pricing.

Despite your choosing to totally ignore my mention of the fact, but since that point, i have most notably endeavored at every visible turn we have ever made to reduce that cost ever lower and lower so that it becomes ever more and more affordable to absolutely everyone. Or Joe Public if you prefer.
Along the way, we have picked up many who have found a price level at which they are able to invest in our equipment, and to date, not one has been dissappointed.
 
What I have posted regarding BBS, I have written without any axe to grind. The Boss has by his own admission stated his personal character, whether or not it is everyone's cup of tea is a matter of personal opinion. The fact that his Company played a major part in breaking the dealer monopoly on diagnostics for a lower price and better system than Test Book which was , and is, available to all.
I think a comparison in attitude would be with Michael O'Leary of Ryanair fame, who as Irish members will agree is well able to rattle a few cages very easily !!!..Love him or hate him, he has revolutionised their specific industry.
Finally, I must say that every BBS product owner should, and MUST logon to their Support Forum to get vastly increased usage and knowledge of how to get maximum utilisation from their BBS equipment.

:behindsofa:
 
BBS Guy said:
P38 Ireland

I of course apologize that i might have rubbed you up the wrong way with my comments, but in all fairness i did pre apologize in my initial post that my comments might not sit well with everyone, and quite frankly there was absolutely no justification at all for the bitterness in your response. would you appreciate in response that i also wished you loose your house and your job, i think not.

It was never my intent to put down anyone who should wish to try and follow in our footsteps and indeed if the original poster should wish to solicit our help, i would be more than happy to oblige in respect of provision of information to a certain degree, furthermore i would also indicate to Story that an all in one interface is definitely the way to go.

If Story does well, so be it, that just how it goes and reason for me to up my own game. It has never really been any different to me. But as i said, and as is still absolutely 100% valid, i know how really hard it is and how much it costs to get where we are. If Story is able to get people to do that for free, then fair play to him i say.

As you bring the personal element into discussion i would happily agree that i am myself personally not exactly everyone's cup of tea or even the most likable or agreeable of characters, I personally have an ego the size of Texas, and have a very strong opinion of myself and my capabilities, and I certainly do not suffer fools well, as mentioned. Although as many have noted and to who i give thanks, if you treat me with due respect, you will get the same back and me and my team strive to give nothing but the best levels of customer service.

I have also clearly demonstrated on this board, i am also equally able to deal with almost anyone politely, regardless of the degree of provocation.

It is however these very same supposedly negative attributes in me that i have that have served me so very well and in fact every Land Rover owner so well.

Back in 1996, there was but the one dealer option for P38 owners and i alone with my self opinionated attitude dared to challenge that. As a result i produced the much copied alternate in the form of our 10K ROVACOM which has allowed independents the world over to compete with dealers and bring down pricing.

Despite your choosing to totally ignore my mention of the fact, but since that point, i have most notably endeavored at every visible turn we have ever made to reduce that cost ever lower and lower so that it becomes ever more and more affordable to absolutely everyone. Or Joe Public if you prefer.
Along the way, we have picked up many who have found a price level at which they are able to invest in our equipment, and to date, not one has been dissappointed.
Click to expand...

Ok fair play at least you admit you have a large ego. as stated there are many reasons for you to be impressed with yourself, i just hate people who try and beat down on the little guy, you stated your reply which i take on board and accept your response
 
P38_Ireland said:
Ok fair play at least you admit you have a large ego. as stated there are many reasons for you to be impressed with yourself, i just hate people who try and beat down on the little guy, you stated your reply which i take on board and accept your response
Click to expand...

Does that translate to "I will stop whining like a little bitch"
 
woogoo said:
Hi All,

I would say that I am the proud owner of a P38 that in true RR style has spent many a day in the dealers' and other garages I have decided to bite the proverbial bullet and write my own diagnostic software.

As a professional software engineer doing this presents no real problem but also being a realist I don't want to reinvent the wheel and waste my time. Yes, I know there is other software out there that does this but as I understand at cost where my implementation would be free (but PayPal donations would of course not be refused).

With that said I would be very interested to hear what you had to say about it.

Would you be willing to use such software?
What Devices and Operating Systems would you like to see it run on?
What features would you like to see in it?
What sort of interface would you like? e.g. A GUI or Console?
Would you be willing to help test it?
Would you be willing to help develop it?

As an aside if the consensus is that this application be written then I will set up a website where you can read about the progress and download any current version(s) of the software and set up a Bug Tracker, well for tracking bugs.

In the meantime I look forward to hearing from you.
Click to expand...

Hi there, brilliant idea. As a complete dope when it comes to stuff like this I would love to help, I have a Disco 1 would it be cross compatible? I think an interface that works on a lap top would be good my suggestion FWIW would be a downloadable programme that runs on a normal laptop and is connectable via a usb lead dunno if that is even doable.

Also the interface would need to be idiot proof as we all know "nothing is foolproof to a suficiently talented fool"
 
a little update from the RSW site.......

"News
Rover All Comms - Progress Report - 7
Sunday, 11 April 2010 21:47
Several people have been asking what the status of the Rover All Comms Project is currently at. I honestly have not been spending as much time as I would like on the project and thus have significantly slowed the progress. I am hoping that I will be able to submit the PCB boards in the very near future and get the first handfull of hardware prototypes constructed. Rest assured, that in the unlikely event I do not have the ability to finish this project or bring it to completion, the progress and contents of my development will be released to the public. I would not let the progress simply become lost."
 
I am sorry, yea yea yea, i am the corporate monster and all, but on reading this post, i really really really just totally fail to understand what problem anyone would have in respect of difficulties interfacing a PC to a Disco 2, P38, L322 or even the latest LR CAN bus vehicles.

Has no one here ever heard of the industry standard Elm electronics ELM327 chip. It's been around for a couple of years now and you can buy one for a just few quid. It comes with full documentation and PCB schematics as to how to build a full working interface for it.
http://www.elmelectronics.com/DSheets/ELM327DS.pdf

If you are feeling lazy, there are umpteen companies that sell off the shelf hardware that uses this chip and that re ports it's serial RS232 directly or via wi fi, Bluetooth or USB if you prefer, for very little money indeed.
In fact i think even the Chinese have copied it now

Just Google it.
There are also just as many companies providing free OBDII software for it.
We ourselves used one when we first dabbled with CAN bus, and very good it was too.

The chip can be sent very simple and easy to understand ASCII commands over whatever porting is provided by the hardware you have to make it wake up and perform the commonly required and otherwise difficult proprietary vehicle communications actions using comms standards such as ISO 9141.

That means it is 100% able to interface off the shelf, to all Disco II on board systems, all P38 systems except EAS, of which the details on how to knock up a lead for that is already well documented. It will also directly interface any PC with the EMS and gearbox of any L322. However all other systems on the L322 use a BMW bus called DS2. This is different from ISO 9141 only in respect of the fact that it uses pin 8 as opposed to pin 7 of the OBDII connector, which is of course easily rectified with but a blob of solder. ;-)
Giving away trade secrets now i am.

If you want to send it Ascii commands to use its CAN communication capabilities, you can also use it, as i did to send data over the CAN bus to all Range Rover Sports, Disco 3's and Disco 4's the latest L322's Freelender2's and Puma defenders if you wish.

For many years our company has produced software and hardware for all Land Rover models, and while we do prefer to make our own hardware interfaces, I swear there is nothing we could not have used the ELM327 for instead.
 
BBS Guy said:
I am sorry, yea yea yea, i am the corporate monster and all, but on reading this post, i really really really just totally fail to understand what problem anyone would have in respect of difficulties interfacing a PC to a Disco 2, P38, L322 or even the latest LR CAN bus vehicles.
Click to expand...

As the original poster of this thread, this really isn't the issue the biggest hurdle one has to jump here is the integration of the output from the hardware to the user interface and vice versa.

Anyone can buy the parts off the shelf, but presenting the output generated in a meaningful and intuitive way is another matter. Add to that the logic, parsing and preprocessing needed to prevent the user from feeding the system bad inputs.

While it may be a trivial exercise for some to feed the chip commands via a terminal, not everyone is comfortable doing this and how do they interpret the results!

Since the diagnostics supported by this protocol allows for continuous output you now have to add the issue of threading to the pile along with the serial line synchronisation. Unless I am mistaken it would appear to me that your devices treat the IO in an asynchronous manner, but with the event driven paradigm of PCs this opens up a whole new can of worms.

For what it's worth.

--
Woogoo
 
Best news I`ve heard in ages. I would suggest that Storey Wilson has pretty much covered the EAS system, so that should be the last to attract your attention. The only help I could realistically offer is as a guinea-pig... If you produce software that I can understand then you`re on a winner! But I`m sure others with more relevant skills than myself will soon come offering assistance.
 
gtland said:
Best news I`ve heard in ages. I would suggest that Storey Wilson has pretty much covered the EAS system, so that should be the last to attract your attention. The only help I could realistically offer is as a guinea-pig... If you produce software that I can understand then you`re on a winner! But I`m sure others with more relevant skills than myself will soon come offering assistance.
Click to expand...

Well that's good to hear however, the bad news is that this project isn't getting done! RSW Solutions intimated that he was (at the time) approximately 45 days away from release of his Rover All Comms Suite, so there was no point in re-inventing the wheel.

However, according to the most recent project update from RSW it would appear that delivery has slipped and there are still no firm release date set.

Of course it could be argued that if this project had gone ahead then it may well have been close to delivery, but like RSW none of us know what is lying around the corner to trip is up.

--
woogoo
 
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