Reverse judder

bluedog333 · Jul 29, 2017

Started a couple of days ago and hasn't yet miraculously cured itself, so better have a look at the problem!
When reversing from cold, the Landy has a terrible judder, enough to shake the whole vehicle. I thought it may be clutch contamination, but it also happens when free- wheeling in neutral and with clutch engaged, moving forward doesn't seem to do it, nor when she's warmed up (couple of minutes later really). I'm thinking brakes or handbrake? I can check the brake shoes easy enough, but what do I look out for on the handbrake?
Any other possibilities? UJs all appear good, drivetrain has some slack all over, but no worse than usual. Oil levels all good.
200tdi,LT77.
Cheers!

Colthebrummie · Jul 29, 2017

Could it be a problem in the gear box? Does it do it if the arse end is jacked up and run in reverse? I would suspect the handbrake first but apart from taking the drum off and having a look, I don't know what to recommend.

Col

bluedog333 · Jul 29, 2017

Colthebrummie said:
Could it be a problem in the gear box? Does it do it if the arse end is jacked up and run in reverse? I would suspect the handbrake first but apart from taking the drum off and having a look, I don't know what to recommend.

Col

I'm hoping it's not gearbox! ( although I have been looking for an excuse to get a shiny recon unit! ). I'll give it a looking at later today. What will jacking the rear end up eliminate ? ( novice mechanic here!).

Oldseadog · Jul 29, 2017

It sounds very much like diff wind-up.
Make sure that you are not runing in diff-lock.

bluedog333 · Jul 29, 2017

Oldseadog said:
It sounds very much like diff wind-up.
Make sure that you are not runing in diff-lock.

Sounds like it, but I don't think it is. Lever is definitely dis-engaged, is there any way the box could select itself? (actual question).

Oldseadog · Jul 29, 2017

With the engine running, bring the lever all the way over to the right in high range, then push it all the way forward into low range, and bring it back.
You might hear a bit of a 'clunk' as it drops out of 4WD.
You could always check and make sure that the lever is attached to the range likage underneath,as that opccasionally comes adrift.
If it has, it can be a real PITA to get it working again, as mine seemed to 'sieze up' on the pivot.
Still an easy fix though.

bluedog333 · Jul 29, 2017

Oldseadog said:
With the engine running, bring the lever all the way over to the right in high range, then push it all the way forward into low range, and bring it back.
You might hear a bit of a 'clunk' as it drops out of 4WD.
You could always chek and make sure that the lever is attached to the range likage underneath,as that opccasionally comes adrift.
If it has, it can be a real PITA to get it working again, as mine seemed to 'sieze up' on the pivot.
Still an easy fix though.

Cheers, I'll have a look later. Always in 4wd though!

Oldseadog · Jul 29, 2017

Although Landies are clasased as 'always being in 4WD', they aren't due to the centre diff operating between font and rear axles.
However, with 'diff lock' engaged, the centre diff powers both axles together, which causes the system to 'wind--up' like a clock!

mikescuba · Jul 29, 2017

bluedog333 said:
Sounds like it, but I don't think it is. Lever is definitely dis-engaged, is there any way the box could select itself? (actual question).

Is your diff lock light working? I had a problem with the diff lock being stuck and the warning light wasn't working. I have fixed the light. When I engaged diff lock I had to put it in normal and reverse to disengage the diff lock. After I put a tin of Molyslip in the problem seems to have sorted itself out.

bluedog333 · Jul 29, 2017

mikescuba said:
Is your diff lock light working? I had a problem with the diff lock being stuck and the warning light wasn't working. I have fixed the light. When I engaged diff lock I had to put it in normal and reverse to disengage the diff lock. After I put a tin of Molyslip in the problem seems to have sorted itself out.

Yep, works fine. I don't think wind-up is the problem (not saying it isn't!), only judders in reverse after start up, I'd expect diff wind-up to be more prevalent going forward.

bluedog333 · Jul 29, 2017

Brain's just woken up...I'll park up as normal tonight, but leave the handbrake off and see what it's like in the morning.

tottot · Jul 29, 2017

Hand brake expander not releasing all the way, gummed up and or worn.

bluedog333 · Jul 29, 2017

tottot said:
Hand brake expander not releasing all the way, gummed up and or worn.

Cheers, I'll see how she reverses tomorrow, I've left the handbrake off tonight.
Is it an easy job to do? I'll have a look for a workshop manual.

lynall · Jul 29, 2017

They are fiddly useless bits of poo!
To be fair if you keep on top of them they are okay, but like most things they get ignored until they go wrong.
Easy/clean to check if its the handbrake, lift up the drivers seat base cover panel and with car in neutral and h-brake off the drum should rock back and forth freely.

bluedog333 · Jul 29, 2017

lynall said:
They are fiddly useless bits of poo!
To be fair if you keep on top of them they are okay, but like most things they get ignored until they go wrong.
Easy/clean to check if its the handbrake, lift up the drivers seat base cover panel and with car in neutral and h-brake off the drum should rock back and forth freely.

Just looked at the workshop manual and the expander looks fairly easy to get to and service...so it'll be a fookin pain then. Hopefully it's as simple as a handbrake issue, can't be dealing with diffs and gearboxes right now.

jamesmartin · Jul 29, 2017

Oldseadog said:
Although Landies are clasased as 'always being in 4WD', they aren't due to the centre diff operating between font and rear axles.
However, with 'diff lock' engaged, the centre diff powers both axles together, which causes the system to 'wind--up' like a clock!

all wheels are driven unless one or more can spin

jamesmartin · Jul 29, 2017

bluedog333 said:
Just looked at the workshop manual and the expander looks fairly easy to get to and service...so it'll be a fookin pain then. Hopefully it's as simple as a handbrake issue, can't be dealing with diffs and gearboxes right now.

if you want to rule out hand brake wind the adjuster off a few turns, anti clockwise

bluedog333 · Jul 29, 2017

jamesmartin said:
if you want to rule out hand brake wind the adjuster off a few turns, anti clockwise

Handbrake's quite slack anyway, actually been thinking I need to tighten it up a bit ( haven't though ), I've left the handbrake off overnight to see what it's like in the morning, then time to pull it apart!

bluedog333 · Oct 20, 2017

tottot said:
Hand brake expander not releasing all the way, gummed up and or worn.

Winning answer!
Thought I better update for others benefit.
Original expander was all gummed up, new one in and problem sorted. I’ll probably clean up the old one to get it working properly again, it seems to be a lot better made than the replacement!

tottot · Oct 21, 2017

Nice to get an update,when you clean up the old one check the barrels slide smoothly in the expander and go back in the right way round.Cheers.

Reverse judder

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