P38A [RESOLVED!] P38 DSE non start - fuel issue

Hi All,

First post but been lurking for a couple of months since I accidentally won a P38 on eBay after a few too many beers... Had been wanting one for a while but never thought of actually doing it and well, the rest is history!

Anyway I have an issue that has stumped me a bit. First off i'll mention that I am mechanically minded, and I've been involved in some pretty mental pro drift car builds so I know one end of a spanner from another. However what I don't have experience with is diesel...

Last week I was leaving my road, turned onto the main road and after about 100m the car died as if it had run out of fuel. This is not possible as I had literally just filled it up two days before and the gauge is still just under full and I've done no more than 50 miles.

Managed to get towed home (embarrassingly by my friends Kia Sorento...) and started to investigate. I pulled the fuel lines from the fuel filter housing and found no fuel is coming from the tank at all when the key is turned. The car cranks over just fine.

My limited knowledge of diesels suggests that in a petrol car that would have pointed at the fuel pump. All fuses and relays appear to be Ok, including the glow plug control module in the ecu casing. However from what I've been reading it appears that this could actually be a BECM / ECU calibration issue, which will be a pain as no-one near me has the tools to sort this.

The next red herring is that the glow plug light doesn't even come on at all now when the key is turned.

So here are the symptoms broken down:

Car appeared to run out of fuel
No fuel coming from tank to fuel filter.
All fuses and relays appear OK
Glow Plug Light would not go out when first broke down.
Glow Plug Light doesn't illuminate at all now

I'm just looking for advise because even my local Landrover 'Specialist' doesn't seem to know... I've read all sorts of conflicting stories that it could be the lift pump, or BECM sync, and recently it's been suggested that the glow plugs aren't talking to the fuel pump. I'm too inexperienced with diesels and i'm reluctant to throw money at red herrings!

Thanks,

James

What year? Have you checked the heater plug delay relay?

Sorry it's a 97 R plate. Is that the relay on the side of the ECU? If so, yes. The beefy fuse on that is unbroken.

Check the power supply to 'stop solenoid' and it clicks when switched ON.
The car will run even if the intank pump is completely dead.

I've read this today - will double check tonight. If I'm not getting any power this is then going to be the problem? Effectively this is a rudementary fuel cut off switch?

kapilamuni said:

Check the power supply to 'stop solenoid' and it clicks when switched ON.
The car will run even if the intank pump is completely dead.

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Not always it won't.

P38_OTMS said:

I've read this today - will double check tonight. If I'm not getting any power this is then going to be the problem? Effectively this is a rudementary fuel cut off switch?

Click to expand...

Yep the stop solenoid is mounted on the Fuel Injection Pump and is a valve that is opened and closed with a solenoid....it is powered to hold the valve open to allow fuel into the pump.....but you say there is no fuel to the filter, which means it isn't getting to the pump in the first place!

I'd look at the in tank pump and also getting the BeCM and the Engine ECU checked to ensure it is in sync.

When you say 'local Land Rover' indy......your location suggests Surrey - is that North (Staines/Egham neck of the woods), South (Alfold. Haslemere), East (Caterham, Godstone), West (Frimley, Camberley, Ash), Central (Guildford, Clandon, Dorking)??

I ask as my local Indy (Rangers of Guildford) are pretty Bob-on for most things and Sawyers in Staines are also very well reported!

Thanks mate - I'm in Shepperton. I didn't know there was somewhere in Staines, I'll give them a shout now. Problem is my car is a 2.5 tonne garden ornament at the moment and due to a height restriction to my car park there is no way of getting a tow truck in there to get it out! So if someone is able to come out to the car to scan it that would be a massive help. I'll give the chaps in Staines a call now. If they can't help I'll try Rangers.

Thanks

So far no luck - doesn't seem to be much love locally for P38s! Haven't spoken to rangers yet but will persevere!

kapilamuni said:

Check the power supply to 'stop solenoid' and it clicks when switched ON.
The car will run even if the intank pump is completely dead.

Click to expand...

What a load of bollocks. There is No fuel to the filter so what has that got to do with the stop solenoid?

Glad your on board Wammers, what year does the intank pump run in conjunction with the heater plugs? Did you check for fuel at the filter outlet whilst cranking?

P38_OTMS said:

So far no luck - doesn't seem to be much love locally for P38s! Haven't spoken to rangers yet but will persevere!

Click to expand...

Dont rush into anything, we need more info.

If you look in the Technical Section for posts by Wammers then in one of them it will tell you how to bridge the lift pump relay and check fuel is being pumped. If that works then we'll work up from there!

Here's the link: https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/checking-diesel-fuel-pump-flow-rate.182959/

@P38_OTMS I am in stanwell and have the right kit to read your engine and was born in shepperton so know it quite well
are in a rush to get it fixed, drop me a pm and iam sure we can sort getting it sorted.

P38_OTMS said:

Sorry it's a 97 R plate. Is that the relay on the side of the ECU? If so, yes. The beefy fuse on that is unbroken.

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Yes but we are getting ahead of ourselves. You say that you have no fuel at the filter. See post#13. See if you get fuel. Some pumps ,depending on the year power up on cranking and others when the heater plugs operate. Not sure what year but Wammers will know. The problem you have had with the heater plug light may be a clue. Only when you have fuel to the filter and bled through to the injector pump will it be worth checking the fuel cut off solenoid.

P38_OTMS said:

So far no luck - doesn't seem to be much love locally for P38s! Haven't spoken to rangers yet but will persevere!

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Odd - Sawyers are usually very good!!

Give @brianp38dse a message - as he says above he could help to check the ECU's

And similarly to what I said and also @tomcat59alan said - first thing is to confirm if the ITP runs with glows on or not - as you have issues with glows - it could be related.

On a 1997 model pump is on with glow lamps and whilst engine is running. 1999 and on it is also active whilst cranking. First job follow instructions in tech archive to run lift pump. If it runs and pumps fuel we will go from there. Reference no glow lamp will need to know if there is a hot fix fitted first off. Glow lamps MUST work with cold engine because pump is powered from number six feed.

OP claims the engine stopped suddenly on the road.. If the ITP decided to die or Glow plug relay fuse blow out will not stop a running engine suddenly.

kapilamuni said:

OP claims the engine stopped suddenly on the road.. If the ITP decided to die or Glow plug relay fuse blow out will not stop a running engine suddenly.

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He also said that there is no fuel from the tank to the filter If there is no fuel then how is the stop solenoid going to allow the fip to operate? Perhaps if he checked the solenoid before taking the fuel line/s off the fuel filter then that could have been iliminated but now it's going to need bleeding.

kapilamuni said:

OP claims the engine stopped suddenly on the road.. If the ITP decided to die or Glow plug relay fuse blow out will not stop a running engine suddenly.

Click to expand...

One won't one can.