Removing the starter on a TD5

I know this subject has been covered many times in the past, but everyone seems to mention it's a bugger of a job to get to the top nut.

I have just finished fitting a new starter to my Defender, I needed it done in a hurry so bought a new one with the intention of repairing the solenoid in the old one and keeping it as a spare for next time.

All in all, from dis-connecting the battery to re-connecting it and firing her up, it took me exactly one hour. Most of this was wasted time as I fished out the correct tools for the job, in all honesty, if I had the correct tools to hand I could now swap a starter in under half an hour, probably in about 15 to 20 minutes. The top nut is a doddle if you have the right tool to hand.

A long time ago I learned the hard way that the most difficult nut/bolt to remove on any starter motor is the one you should take out first. If you leave it until the last, then the weight of the starter will be dangling on it and this will often mean that you cannot remove the nut/bolt using only your fingers (assuming you can get them onto it) once you have loosened it with your tools.

For the top nut on the TD5 use a 15mm normal length socket, a universal knuckle, a short extension bar and your ratchet. First, I disconnected the battery (at precisely 1140hrs.) Then I removed the plastic engine cover and used a torch to shine down between the ports of the inlet manifold until I could see the nut in question, then I found I could wiggle my hand in behind the fuel pressure regulator and get my fingers onto the nut quite easily. So, working from the top, wiggle the ratchet handle down past the end of the starter motor's body and at the same time feed the socket, knuckle and extension bar over the top of the starter's body, this does take a bit of wiggling the first time until you get the hang of it (I had to use a set of ramps to stand on 'coz I'm a short arse and couldn't reach from ground level and you will probably let the tools slip and fall to the ground a couple of times like I did, so you get plenty of practice.) Then, using your left hand with the palm facing the rear of the vehicle, wiggle your fingers into the space behind the fuel pressure regulator and guide the socket onto the nut. My extension bar was just a fraction too long (125mm) which meant that it had to sit at a bit of angle. This allowed me to use my right hand to twist the head of the ratchet enough to "crack" the nut. Once the nut was cracked and turned about 180°, the nut became free to turn, though a bit of dirt on the thread soon made it difficult to do it with my fingertips (a spray of WD40 on the stud before you start might help clean it,) but a long screwdriver was able to get it going again and my fingertips were enough to spin it off the stud. Then it was a crawl underneath and the electrics were disconnected using a 13mm spanner. I had crawled out at least 4 times before I realised the remaining two bolts holding the starter on were 13mm also. The higher of the two didn't have enough room for the head of my ratchet to go onto so I had to use a ring spanner to get a good pull on it to "crack" it, this bolt came out by hand once it had been loosened a few turns with the spanner. The bottom bolt was as tight as hell on mine and I had to crawl out again to get a bigger spanner to hook onto the end of my 13mm ringer to give me more leverage. Again it came out easily after a few turns with the spanner. Once again, I had to crawl out because I hadn't put the replacement motor to hand - typical numpty. The old one drops out easily enough past the drive-shaft with a little wiggling and the new one passes back up easily because you saw the way the old out came out. Put the replacement into place and hold it up with your left hand as you use your right hand to pop the bottom bolt (the shorter of the two) back into place and give it a couple of turns until you feel the thread engage. Then pop the higher one back in too and tighten it up, tighten the bottom one up next. Once you are happy you have them nice and tight, pop the little wire with the spade terminal back onto the solenoid then replace the two heavy wires and tighten them up. Toss all your tools out from underneath, I don't have any plastic covers under mine so that was me done under there. Next, grip the nut in your left hand and wiggle your fingers back into place behind the FPR and carefully fit the nut to the stud, tighten as best you can by hand, even use the screwdriver to get that little bit extra on it then it's time to wiggle the socket, knuckle, extension & ratchet back in to give it a wee bit extra torque. Re-connect your battery and fire her up. I re-connected my battery at exactly 1237hrs.

This is the knuckle thing I'm referring to for anyone who doesn't know what I mean...........

Clanforbes said:

I know this subject has been covered many times in the past, but everyone seems to mention it's a bugger of a job to get to the top nut.

I have just finished fitting a new starter to my Defender, I needed it done in a hurry so bought a new one with the intention of repairing the solenoid in the old one and keeping it as a spare for next time.

All in all, from dis-connecting the battery to re-connecting it and firing her up, it took me exactly one hour. Most of this was wasted time as I fished out the correct tools for the job, in all honesty, if I had the correct tools to hand I could now swap a starter in under half an hour, probably in about 15 to 20 minutes. The top nut is a doddle if you have the right tool to hand.

A long time ago I learned the hard way that the most difficult nut/bolt to remove on any starter motor is the one you should take out first. If you leave it until the last, then the weight of the starter will be dangling on it and this will often mean that you cannot remove the nut/bolt using only your fingers (assuming you can get them onto it) once you have loosened it with your tools.

For the top nut on the TD5 use a 15mm normal length socket, a universal knuckle, a short extension bar and your ratchet. First, I disconnected the battery (at precisely 1140hrs.) Then I removed the plastic engine cover and used a torch to shine down between the ports of the inlet manifold until I could see the nut in question, then I found I could wiggle my hand in behind the fuel pressure regulator and get my fingers onto the nut quite easily. So, working from the top, wiggle the ratchet handle down past the end of the starter motor's body and at the same time feed the socket, knuckle and extension bar over the top of the starter's body, this does take a bit of wiggling the first time until you get the hang of it (I had to use a set of ramps to stand on 'coz I'm a short arse and couldn't reach from ground level and you will probably let the tools slip and fall to the ground a couple of times like I did, so you get plenty of practice.) Then, using your left hand with the palm facing the rear of the vehicle, wiggle your fingers into the space behind the fuel pressure regulator and guide the socket onto the nut. My extension bar was just a fraction too long (125mm) which meant that it had to sit at a bit of angle. This allowed me to use my right hand to twist the head of the ratchet enough to "crack" the nut. Once the nut was cracked and turned about 180°, the nut became free to turn, though a bit of dirt on the thread soon made it difficult to do it with my fingertips (a spray of WD40 on the stud before you start might help clean it,) but a long screwdriver was able to get it going again and my fingertips were enough to spin it off the stud. Then it was a crawl underneath and the electrics were disconnected using a 13mm spanner. I had crawled out at least 4 times before I realised the remaining two bolts holding the starter on were 13mm also. The higher of the two didn't have enough room for the head of my ratchet to go onto so I had to use a ring spanner to get a good pull on it to "crack" it, this bolt came out by hand once it had been loosened a few turns with the spanner. The bottom bolt was as tight as hell on mine and I had to crawl out again to get a bigger spanner to hook onto the end of my 13mm ringer to give me more leverage. Again it came out easily after a few turns with the spanner. Once again, I had to crawl out because I hadn't put the replacement motor to hand - typical numpty. The old one drops out easily enough past the drive-shaft with a little wiggling and the new one passes back up easily because you saw the way the old out came out. Put the replacement into place and hold it up with your left hand as you use your right hand to pop the bottom bolt (the shorter of the two) back into place and give it a couple of turns until you feel the thread engage. Then pop the higher one back in too and tighten it up, tighten the bottom one up next. Once you are happy you have them nice and tight, pop the little wire with the spade terminal back onto the solenoid then replace the two heavy wires and tighten them up. Toss all your tools out from underneath, I don't have any plastic covers under mine so that was me done under there. Next, grip the nut in your left hand and wiggle your fingers back into place behind the FPR and carefully fit the nut to the stud, tighten as best you can by hand, even use the screwdriver to get that little bit extra on it then it's time to wiggle the socket, knuckle, extension & ratchet back in to give it a wee bit extra torque. Re-connect your battery and fire her up. I re-connected my battery at exactly 1237hrs.

This is the knuckle thing I'm referring to for anyone who doesn't know what I mean...........

Click to expand...

Thank you for that. will print that off and put it in my manual for future reference

Nice write up cheers Clanforbes

Thanks for this... I've just done my starter motor... managed it in an extended lunch break!

I could add a couple of tips to help with the top nut:

1. as you have done with the 15mm socket, extension and knuckle... but I found it was possible to join two long extensions to pass through the inlet manifold where the dipstick comes through, enabling the ratchet to work in free space.

2. to stop the nut falling out of the socket when feeding it into place I put some workshop paper towel over the nut, which is enough for the socket to grip the nut.

Hope this helps...

or you can forget about it... i realised after 3 years when i had to fix the solenoid that the previous owner of my car was lazy enough to not fit it back...as i didnt have any problems without it i was lazy enough too to leave it so

sierrafery said:

or you can forget about it... i realised after 3 years when i had to fix the solenoid that the previous owner of my car was lazy enough to not fit it back...as i didnt have any problems without it i was lazy enough too to leave it so

Click to expand...

In

It was a doddle right enough ,once I realized it was a 17mm socket on the top nut on my rd5 .Thanks for all the tips.

Clanforbes said:

I know this subject has been covered many times in the past, but everyone seems to mention it's a bugger of a job to get to the top nut.

I have just finished fitting a new starter to my Defender, I needed it done in a hurry so bought a new one with the intention of repairing the solenoid in the old one and keeping it as a spare for next time.

All in all, from dis-connecting the battery to re-connecting it and firing her up, it took me exactly one hour. Most of this was wasted time as I fished out the correct tools for the job, in all honesty, if I had the correct tools to hand I could now swap a starter in under half an hour, probably in about 15 to 20 minutes. The top nut is a doddle if you have the right tool to hand.

A long time ago I learned the hard way that the most difficult nut/bolt to remove on any starter motor is the one you should take out first. If you leave it until the last, then the weight of the starter will be dangling on it and this will often mean that you cannot remove the nut/bolt using only your fingers (assuming you can get them onto it) once you have loosened it with your tools.

For the top nut on the TD5 use a 15mm normal length socket, a universal knuckle, a short extension bar and your ratchet. First, I disconnected the battery (at precisely 1140hrs.) Then I removed the plastic engine cover and used a torch to shine down between the ports of the inlet manifold until I could see the nut in question, then I found I could wiggle my hand in behind the fuel pressure regulator and get my fingers onto the nut quite easily. So, working from the top, wiggle the ratchet handle down past the end of the starter motor's body and at the same time feed the socket, knuckle and extension bar over the top of the starter's body, this does take a bit of wiggling the first time until you get the hang of it (I had to use a set of ramps to stand on 'coz I'm a short arse and couldn't reach from ground level and you will probably let the tools slip and fall to the ground a couple of times like I did, so you get plenty of practice.) Then, using your left hand with the palm facing the rear of the vehicle, wiggle your fingers into the space behind the fuel pressure regulator and guide the socket onto the nut. My extension bar was just a fraction too long (125mm) which meant that it had to sit at a bit of angle. This allowed me to use my right hand to twist the head of the ratchet enough to "crack" the nut. Once the nut was cracked and turned about 180°, the nut became free to turn, though a bit of dirt on the thread soon made it difficult to do it with my fingertips (a spray of WD40 on the stud before you start might help clean it,) but a long screwdriver was able to get it going again and my fingertips were enough to spin it off the stud. Then it was a crawl underneath and the electrics were disconnected using a 13mm spanner. I had crawled out at least 4 times before I realised the remaining two bolts holding the starter on were 13mm also. The higher of the two didn't have enough room for the head of my ratchet to go onto so I had to use a ring spanner to get a good pull on it to "crack" it, this bolt came out by hand once it had been loosened a few turns with the spanner. The bottom bolt was as tight as hell on mine and I had to crawl out again to get a bigger spanner to hook onto the end of my 13mm ringer to give me more leverage. Again it came out easily after a few turns with the spanner. Once again, I had to crawl out because I hadn't put the replacement motor to hand - typical numpty. The old one drops out easily enough past the drive-shaft with a little wiggling and the new one passes back up easily because you saw the way the old out came out. Put the replacement into place and hold it up with your left hand as you use your right hand to pop the bottom bolt (the shorter of the two) back into place and give it a couple of turns until you feel the thread engage. Then pop the higher one back in too and tighten it up, tighten the bottom one up next. Once you are happy you have them nice and tight, pop the little wire with the spade terminal back onto the solenoid then replace the two heavy wires and tighten them up. Toss all your tools out from underneath, I don't have any plastic covers under mine so that was me done under there. Next, grip the nut in your left hand and wiggle your fingers back into place behind the FPR and carefully fit the nut to the stud, tighten as best you can by hand, even use the screwdriver to get that little bit extra on it then it's time to wiggle the socket, knuckle, extension & ratchet back in to give it a wee bit extra torque. Re-connect your battery and fire her up. I re-connected my battery at exactly 1237hrs.

This is the knuckle thing I'm referring to for anyone who doesn't know what I mean...........

Click to expand...

Big thanks clanforbes. I couldn't have achieved this without your advice. I have to admit, it took me almost 5 hours from start to finish and the 'nut from hell' (NFH) is still stuck somewhere between the starter and the engine block, as my efforts to get it back on were cut short when I dropped it, so that's my next mission, to get it out.
The sense of joy when that bloody nut finally cracks is amazing and I was so pleased with myself when I got the starter out and onto my bench, replaced all the contacts and plunger (using the repairkitsuk parts) then refitted and my trusty defender started first time. I was beaming from ear to ear.
I have to admit that without yours and others advice on LandyZone I would not have persevered and managed to do this job. Hats off to those that can do it in an hour and thanks to all.
Now I just need another hour to get retrieve that bloody NFH!

Liquidator said:

Big thanks clanforbes. I couldn't have achieved this without your advice. I have to admit, it took me almost 5 hours from start to finish and the 'nut from hell' (NFH) is still stuck somewhere between the starter and the engine block, as my efforts to get it back on were cut short when I dropped it, so that's my next mission, to get it out.
The sense of joy when that bloody nut finally cracks is amazing and I was so pleased with myself when I got the starter out and onto my bench, replaced all the contacts and plunger (using the repairkitsuk parts) then refitted and my trusty defender started first time. I was beaming from ear to ear.
I have to admit that without yours and others advice on LandyZone I would not have persevered and managed to do this job. Hats off to those that can do it in an hour and thanks to all.
Now I just need another hour to get retrieve that bloody NFH!

Click to expand...

You do realise he has not been seen since June 2014.....

Cheers

Sorry to piddle on your bonfire but my mechanic swapped my starter in the time it took me to make him a cuppa... This was over a pit and he has done that job a few times... That top bolt sounds horrible though and hats off for giving it a go guys!

Discodevon said:

Sorry to piddle on your bonfire but my mechanic swapped my starter in the time it took me to make him a cuppa... This was over a pit and he has done that job a few times... That top bolt sounds horrible though and hats off for giving it a go guys!

Click to expand...

The top nut is not that bad,

But you do need to undo the two bottom bolts first, then using the smallest dia and shortest iirc 15mm socket, fit it to a 1/4 drive ratchet with a 6 inch extension , undo the nut and if necessary slide the starter away from the bell housing as you undo it. Otherwise you can end up Jamming the socket into the starter body.

Cheers

I removed mine from underneath on our discovery 2 TD5. Extensions were either too short or long so I ground one that was too long till it did the job. Fitted it onto the nut and Zip-tied it in place till I got the nut off.

brianconwy said:

I removed mine from underneath on our discovery 2 TD5. Extensions were either too short or long so I ground one that was too long till it did the job. Fitted it onto the nut and Zip-tied it in place till I got the nut off.

Click to expand...

Not sure how you would get to it from the top, unless you were an orangutan....

Cheers

I assume it is only possible on defenders, going by the other posts.

I know this is an old thread but decided to add my own peeves to it.
Spent the whole morning trying to get this sh1t nut off. Still haven't done it on my Discovery 2.
Getting sockets, usually 3/8, on are not actually the problem.
Getting extension bars through the inlet manifold also aren't a problem.
BUT wibbly-wobblies etc make it impossible to be able to apply enough torque without the whole kit'n'caboodle slipping off the nut.
I also tried a cut down 15mm ring spanner(cranked) and a have a 15mm open-ended, cut down, that I didn't dare try, as I don't want to round the nut off.
Mine seems to be as tight as ferk.
So far I have avoided undoing the other nuts as I too feel that you should always do the hardest part of the job first.
I will not go back to it today but next time I do I will take the other two bolts out first then try and free off the problem nut by getting the starter motor to move a bit.
Looking at it from the physics or mechanics point of view, the problem is that in order to undo any nut you need a secure fulcrum. If you put a spanner directly on a nut, then the fulcrum is secure and cannot easily move, but as soon as extensions, and particularly wibbly-wobblies get involved, the fulcrum moves along the line and suddenly becomes something that is unsupported. This was my problem, the turning moment applied at the end of the extension was doing anything other than applying torque to the nut. Ideally I would find something to rest the ratchet against, or some part of the extension, so that the rest provided the fulcrum and the extension just applied the torque. But places to make into a fulcrum are distinctly missing.
The person who designed this fu cking vehicle never thought about the poor ba stard who had to maintain it.
I got achy, filthy and furious over this to the point where wifey actually sympathised, which is pretty rare!
As for the bloke who said "do it with a 1.4" drive" WHATTTTTT? Never! I nearly snapped my 3/8" extensions, they were winding up like a corkscrew!
I even used a 3/8" socket, a 3/8" to 1/2" converter and a whole load of 1/2" extensions to the top of the engine through the manifold and STILL it wouldn't come undone.
What is also a problem is that the cu nt who designed the starter motor put a wire right in the place where you want to put an extansion to make it sit parallel to the motor and then made it such a weird length that no normal extension seem to fit if you try to do it from below, they are all either too long or too short, no matter what combination I used, none seemed to fit. I note another poster ground the end off one of his extensions due to this. But even it you could get the right length extension on it, you need to be able to rest the extension or the ratchet or breaker bar against something to get the fulcrum and the obvious fulcrum, the starter motor istself, is not suitable as you cannot get the ratchet or whatever handle in a position to be able to use it.
I walked away before I could do any deliberate damage to this so dding vehicle. I was so fu cked off.
so if any magic nut fairy can wave their magic wand ...?
Reminds me a bit of fitting a bypass hose on a Mini, except that actually was possible!

Freeze the sh*t out of it with something like this https://www.sealey.co.uk/product/5637180487/freeze-shock-release-spray-lubricant-500ml

sierrafery said:

Freeze the sh*t out of it with something like this https://www.sealey.co.uk/product/5637180487/freeze-shock-release-spray-lubricant-500ml

Click to expand...

Thanks mate! Never heard of this stuff! As per usual I managed eventually managed to direct a bit of a stream of WD on it, but that made little difference.I keep hoping someone who has to take them off regularly like for instance to change clutches of gear boxes, will jump on and give us their wisdom. If not I wish I could just go "never mind, pass the hammer" but it is so flipping inaccessible. I even debated with myself taking the other stuff around it off, like the fuel thingy or even the inlet manifold. But I have a feeling that this will just cause even more trouble as I have no idea what contains fuel, or water or even oil. In an ordinary old fashoined car, it wouldn't matter a tinkers but on a TD5 I am just sure it would lead to problems with bleeding etc etc..
Tomorrow the weather will be rubbish so it'll have to wait. Gives me time to order the kit to replace the contacts, and also maybe a ne batt as I think mine is on its last legs and a recent thread has shown me exactly what to get.
I'll get a can of this stuff.
thanks again!

Once you have done it a couple of times it isn't bad from below. If you lie with your feet to the rear and head to the front. The length needed is between 19cm and 20cm from the tip of the socket to the back of the socket driver.

When putting the nut back on I found I could reach it easier by turning away from it and reaching behind me with my right hand to get the nut started. If you have longer arms it might be easier.