Recommendations for very small nible 4x4 chase vehicle...

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M

Mesquito Creek

Guest
I am looking for some recommendations on a suzuki samarui or
compareables... Something in the 2-3K used price range...

I am looking for an in-expensive alternative to something similar to a
Polaris Ranger. I want a small light reliable chase type vehicle for
trail riding in Baja, Mexico. I have concluded that a Suzuki Sam may
just be the vehicle. Are there any others that I am overlooking?

The wagon will follow groups of a dozen bikes/quads on day trips of
about 100 miles in Baja. We have one polaris Ranger that does a
fantastic job, but at 8-9K new this is out of my price range. I have
concluded that a used suzuki may do most all the terrain a
Ranger/similar wagon will do at a third of the cost.

Having said that: I would like a recommendation on the best approach.
My instinct is to buy a used late 80s stock model and apply the basic
recommendations on the FAQ section here at off-road.com (tires/lockers
+ general maintenace hoses/belts etcc...) I have noticed some used
suzukis' lifted with a variety of upgrades, (axles/lift kits/etc..)
Not being able to tell anything about these components upon
inspection, should I avoid them or try to work them into the picture
through more research etc...

Any other info would be greatly apprciated! Thanks in advance...
 
Mesquito Creek wrote:
> I am looking for some recommendations on a suzuki samarui or
> compareables... Something in the 2-3K used price range...
>
> I am looking for an in-expensive alternative to something similar to a
> Polaris Ranger. I want a small light reliable chase type vehicle for
> trail riding in Baja, Mexico. I have concluded that a Suzuki Sam may
> just be the vehicle. Are there any others that I am overlooking?
>
> The wagon will follow groups of a dozen bikes/quads on day trips of
> about 100 miles in Baja. We have one polaris Ranger that does a
> fantastic job, but at 8-9K new this is out of my price range. I have
> concluded that a used suzuki may do most all the terrain a
> Ranger/similar wagon will do at a third of the cost.
>
> Having said that: I would like a recommendation on the best approach.
> My instinct is to buy a used late 80s stock model and apply the basic
> recommendations on the FAQ section here at off-road.com (tires/lockers
> + general maintenace hoses/belts etcc...) I have noticed some used
> suzukis' lifted with a variety of upgrades, (axles/lift kits/etc..)
> Not being able to tell anything about these components upon
> inspection, should I avoid them or try to work them into the picture
> through more research etc...
>
> Any other info would be greatly apprciated! Thanks in advance...



I may be prejudiced, but I would suggest the late
'80's Samurai ('88~89) as a "can't go wrong"
choice (I did!). There ARE other outfitters, but I
went with the modifications to the Sami by
Petroworks <http://petroworks.com/>. Several lift
kit approaches are available. Mine (the most
conservative) uses the same springs and moves them
OVER the axles for about a 4 1/2" lift. For more
articulation the front axle can be fitted with a
rear spring (called "Missing Link"), or for even
MORE articulation, Jeep CJ springs can be
installed. Each 'lift' approach will require mods
to the shocks and brake lines, and you will
CERTAINLY want to add some 31" tires after. Gary's
gear set for the transfer case is a MUST. He
designed the gears and the same factory that built
the transfer cases for Suzuki, makes the gears for
Gary. With the big tires you may never be able to
use 5th gear again UNLESS you install the gears.

In the next month or so, I'll be going for the
Side Kick 1600 cc 16 valve engine. The 1300 cc
engine is fine for around town and great for off
road crawling, but I'm struggling over long hills
on the freeways, sometimes to 50 mph in 3rd gear.
I took a ride in a rig setup with the 1600/16v
engine and it will surely EXCEED my needs (it ran
like a damn hot rod).

Hope that helps,
--
-- Jack --
=================================
Everything you see is temporary.
=================================
Clean Up Return Address To Reply
=================================
Poway, California (San Diego Co.)
N 32° 57' W 117° 04'
At 508' Elevation
=================================

 
hey " Spanky " don't waste yer' bling on a 1.6L Boat anchor......a SUMO
II 1.3L from AAPA will run the pants off any 1.6L out there
Get some 6 to 1's
and then you can run down the road at 70 - 90 mph like the rest of us
.........lol

The Dirt Weasel
"JEEP..........It's whats fer' Dinner".....".Here Jeeper Jeeper "
if it takes more than 3 bolts .......... it's important

 
PR wrote:
> hey " Spanky " don't waste yer' bling on a 1.6L Boat anchor......a SUMO
> II 1.3L from AAPA will run the pants off any 1.6L out there
> Get some 6 to 1's
> and then you can run down the road at 70 - 90 mph like the rest of us
> ........lol
>
> The Dirt Weasel
> "JEEP..........It's whats fer' Dinner".....".Here Jeeper Jeeper "
> if it takes more than 3 bolts .......... it's important
>

=================================

Hey 'webtv', that 4 cyl 1.6L/16v sidekick in the
Sami will hang with ANY 6cyl Jeep! Don't kid
yourself. It will kill the 4cyl jeeps, but the
8cyl Jeeps will out run it. People have reported
110 mph with this setup, which is WAAAY faster
than I'd want to go in the Sami ;-)

The 1.3L that I'm running will NOT outrun much on
the freeways. Hills of any size on the freeway can
make me drop to 3rd and go to 5500~6000 rpm to
stay above 50mph. The 1.6L/16v motor can do the
same hill in 5th at 80mph.

Believe it (or don't),
--
-- Jack --
=================================
Everything you see is temporary.
=================================
Clean Up Return Address To Reply
=================================
Poway, California (San Diego Co.)
N 32° 57' W 117° 04'
At 508' Elevation
=================================

 
there are 175 Zuks in our club .....1.6L 16 valve F.I.,1.6L 8 valve F.I.
and Carb ,1.3L 8 Valve Weber/stock carb/F.I. 22R,V-6 4.3 Vortec, 400
Smallblock Chevys, 1.3L TURBO,1.3L Supercharged........Dude we R on the
cutting edge of Zukin'
I put 11,000 miles on last year alone off-road......and you did how
many?

do you know what SUMO motor even is?

Ask Gary (Petro) about an AAPA SUMO II motor his SUPERCHARGED 1.3L Zuk
can't beat one....
nor can any 1.6L. anytime yer in AZ drop me line and we will show ya'

I have not run a 2.0L Sammi yet....

I can SPANK a 4.0 HEEP anyday.....flat ground or a hill

OPEN CHALLENGE: my 1.3L SUMO II naturally aspirated Samurai on
32's..........against ANY 1.6L 16 valve/8 valve Carb of F.I. on 32's
(Kick/Tracker or Samurai) we will race from the Bottom of sunset Point
straight up I-17 to th top of the hill
Or in Sand/Cinders
Belive it I'll show ya' : )

The Dirt Weasel
"JEEP..........It's whats fer' Dinner".....".Here Jeeper Jeeper "
if it takes more than 3 bolts .......... it's important

 
Hey Jack...... R U runnin' a stock carb ? what T-case gears ?4:16's
4:89's?

If U R runnin' a stock carb have U Modified the Vac. line to the
Secondarys ? it will give ya' more power on the Hills........

The Dirt Weasel
"JEEP..........It's whats fer' Dinner".....".Here Jeeper Jeeper "
if it takes more than 3 bolts .......... it's important

 
Hey there (read on below ... )

=================================

PR wrote:

> there are 175 Zuks in our club .....1.6L 16 valve F.I.,1.6L 8 valve F.I.
> and Carb ,1.3L 8 Valve Weber/stock carb/F.I. 22R,V-6 4.3 Vortec, 400
> Smallblock Chevys, 1.3L TURBO,1.3L Supercharged........Dude we R on the
> cutting edge of Zukin'
> I put 11,000 miles on last year alone off-road......and you did how
> many?
>
> do you know what SUMO motor even is?

=================================
Apparently not.
=================================
> Ask Gary (Petro) about an AAPA SUMO II motor his SUPERCHARGED 1.3L Zuk
> can't beat one....

=================================
Will do tomorrow.
=================================
> nor can any 1.6L. anytime yer in AZ drop me line and we will show ya'

=================================
Sounds like it could be educational. I've done 2
trips to AZ in the past 4 weeks. I'm sure to be
there again soon. (I want to spend some tome in
the Chiracahuas, the Huachucas, and surrounding
areas in a couple more weeks.)
=================================
> I have not run a 2.0L Sammi yet....
>
> I can SPANK a 4.0 HEEP anyday.....flat ground or a hill
>
> OPEN CHALLENGE: my 1.3L SUMO II naturally aspirated Samurai on
> 32's..........against ANY 1.6L 16 valve/8 valve Carb of F.I. on 32's
> (Kick/Tracker or Samurai) we will race from the Bottom of sunset Point
> straight up I-17 to th top of the hill
> Or in Sand/Cinders
> Belive it I'll show ya' : )

=================================
Whoa down ;-) Testosterone alert! It wouldn't take
much to win a race against me, speed's not my
game. Do you know the story about the old bull and
the young bull? ;-)
=================================
> The Dirt Weasel
> "JEEP..........It's whats fer' Dinner".....".Here Jeeper Jeeper "
> if it takes more than 3 bolts .......... it's important

=================================
Perhaps the fellow who started this thread should
look into your SUMO setup. As a 'chase vehicle'
maybe cutting edge speed would be important. I
just want to be able to navigate the freeways as
comfortably as I'm currently getting around on the
trails.

Be Well,
--
-- Jack --
=================================
Everything you see is temporary.
=================================
Clean Up Return Address To Reply
=================================
Poway, California (San Diego Co.)
N 32° 57' W 117° 04'
At 508' Elevation
=================================

 
Hello (again ... )
=================================

PR wrote:

> Hey Jack...... R U runnin' a stock carb ? what T-case gears ?4:16's
> 4:89's?

=================================
I couldn't truly say for sure. It is Gary's G.R.S.
II case. I looks by his description that it's
(3.72:1). Does that sound right to you?
=================================
> If U R runnin' a stock carb have U Modified the Vac. line to the
> Secondarys ? it will give ya' more power on the Hills.......

=================================
Sounds like we need to talk. To answer the above:
YES the whole engine is stock. No modified vacuum
to the secondaries. Is there a resource that you
can point me to to show me what you mean?
=================================
> The Dirt Weasel

=================================
Signing off for this evening.

Later then,
--
-- Jack --
=================================
Everything you see is temporary.
=================================
Clean Up Return Address To Reply
=================================
Poway, California (San Diego Co.)
N 32° 57' W 117° 04'
At 508' Elevation
=================================

 
When ya' come to AZ. do ya' bring yer Zuk?
I'm up here in the Bradshaws......between Mayer and Crown
King........show up on the second Sunday of the month and Ya' can come
on a club run with "The Zuks of Arizona" largest Zuk club in the USA
Show up some other time and we can play around in the Bradshaws.....
R U Spooled/locked on both ends?
I hope ya' know I was only givin' ya' a hard time about the 1.6L swap
"To each his own"
We R just real proud of our SUMO motors?

The Dirt Weasel
"JEEP..........It's whats fer' Dinner".....".Here Jeeper Jeeper "
if it takes more than 3 bolts .......... it's important

 
GRS II = 4.89 to 1 ...the 3.727 is your axle ratio
SUMO T-case is 6.129 to 1
EZ mod to the carb .......lookin'at the drivers side of the carb U will
C a vac. line with a white/orange plastic thingus' in the
middle.....yank the whole thing off and replace it with a straight vac.
line.........now the secondarys on the carb will open when your foot
passes the half way point on the pedal........not "when they feel like
it"
you will lose 1-2mpg

save the piece U will need it to pass yer' "Smog Check"

The Dirt Weasel
"JEEP..........It's whats fer' Dinner".....".Here Jeeper Jeeper "
if it takes more than 3 bolts .......... it's important

 
PR wrote:

> GRS II = 4.89 to 1 ...the 3.727 is your axle ratio
> SUMO T-case is 6.129 to 1
> EZ mod to the carb .......lookin'at the drivers side of the carb U will
> C a vac. line with a white/orange plastic thingus' in the
> middle.....yank the whole thing off and replace it with a straight vac.
> line.........now the secondarys on the carb will open when your foot
> passes the half way point on the pedal........not "when they feel like
> it"
> you will lose 1-2mpg
>
> save the piece U will need it to pass yer' "Smog Check"
>
> The Dirt Weasel
>

=================================
Thanks. I'll give it a try.

--
-- Jack --
=================================
Everything you see is temporary.
=================================
Clean Up Return Address To Reply
=================================
Poway, California (San Diego Co.)
N 32° 57' W 117° 04'
At 508' Elevation
=================================

 
PR wrote:

> When ya' come to AZ. do ya' bring yer Zuk?

=================================
Yeahbut only as a toad. I pulled it to Tucson last
month behind my Astro AWD, but the Astro seemed a
little under powered on the long grades. Coming
out of El Centro at 109°F I had to gear down to
2nd and hold it to 50 mph over the grade to keep
from overheating. On it's own, the Astro can pull
the grade at 75 mph with the AC on high ... does
NOT get hot.
=================================
> I'm up here in the Bradshaws......between Mayer and Crown
> King.....

=================================
Real interesting country in those parts.
=================================
>..show up on the second Sunday of the month and

Ya' can come
> on a club run with "The Zuks of Arizona" largest Zuk club in the USA
> Show up some other time and we can play around in the Bradshaws.....
> R U Spooled/locked on both ends?

=================================
Locked in the front. Stock in the rear.
=================================
> I hope ya' know I was only givin' ya' a hard time about the 1.6L swap
> "To each his own"
> We R just real proud of our SUMO motors?
>
> The Dirt Weasel

=================================
No problem here. I'm interested to learn more
about this SUMO setup, but I'm pretty sure the
1.6L/16v/FI setup will work for me.

I'll be dropping you a line soon, as a buddy and I
are planning an excursion generally in your
direction in a few weeks. He's got a new Ford F350
crew cab with a 6L Power Stroke (Norstar?) diesel.
The Zuk will come along as a toad.

Seeya,
--
-- Jack --
=================================
Everything you see is temporary.
=================================
Clean Up Return Address To Reply
=================================
Poway, California (San Diego Co.)
N 32° 57' W 117° 04'
At 508' Elevation
=================================

 
Well, seeing as all these Sami owners are comparing the performance as
'almost' able to keep up with a Jeep after they do all these mods, I
would just get the Jeep.....

A stock CJ7 will already fit 31" tires and go damn near anywhere. The
4.2 engine is almost bullet proof with amazing low end torque. It also
has a 'bunch' more room for parts if you are the chase vehicle.

Just my $0.02,

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Mesquito Creek wrote:
>
> I am looking for some recommendations on a suzuki samarui or
> compareables... Something in the 2-3K used price range...
>
> I am looking for an in-expensive alternative to something similar to a
> Polaris Ranger. I want a small light reliable chase type vehicle for
> trail riding in Baja, Mexico. I have concluded that a Suzuki Sam may
> just be the vehicle. Are there any others that I am overlooking?
>
> The wagon will follow groups of a dozen bikes/quads on day trips of
> about 100 miles in Baja. We have one polaris Ranger that does a
> fantastic job, but at 8-9K new this is out of my price range. I have
> concluded that a used suzuki may do most all the terrain a
> Ranger/similar wagon will do at a third of the cost.
>
> Having said that: I would like a recommendation on the best approach.
> My instinct is to buy a used late 80s stock model and apply the basic
> recommendations on the FAQ section here at off-road.com (tires/lockers
> + general maintenace hoses/belts etcc...) I have noticed some used
> suzukis' lifted with a variety of upgrades, (axles/lift kits/etc..)
> Not being able to tell anything about these components upon
> inspection, should I avoid them or try to work them into the picture
> through more research etc...
>
> Any other info would be greatly apprciated! Thanks in advance...

 
Let me add a little clarification when I say a "chase" vehicle... Not
a chaser in a racing situation where it has to go fast, more like a
chase mule! We will use it to follow some bikes/quad on day rides...
As I stated in the OP, the target is something like a Yamaha Rhino or
Polaris Ranger. Average speeds will be in the 30 mph range.

I see your point with a Jeep, but a jeep is going to be more than I
believe I am willing to commit too. I won't be trying to modify a
samurai to compete with Jeep,... more just to keep up with a
rhino/range, and perhaps just haul around some stuff and the
occasional burnt out kid.

Mike Romain <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Well, seeing as all these Sami owners are comparing the performance as
> 'almost' able to keep up with a Jeep after they do all these mods, I
> would just get the Jeep.....
>
> A stock CJ7 will already fit 31" tires and go damn near anywhere. The
> 4.2 engine is almost bullet proof with amazing low end torque. It also
> has a 'bunch' more room for parts if you are the chase vehicle.
>
> Just my $0.02,
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
> Mesquito Creek wrote:
> >
> > I am looking for some recommendations on a suzuki samarui or
> > compareables... Something in the 2-3K used price range...
> >
> > I am looking for an in-expensive alternative to something similar to a
> > Polaris Ranger. I want a small light reliable chase type vehicle for
> > trail riding in Baja, Mexico. I have concluded that a Suzuki Sam may
> > just be the vehicle. Are there any others that I am overlooking?
> >
> > The wagon will follow groups of a dozen bikes/quads on day trips of
> > about 100 miles in Baja. We have one polaris Ranger that does a
> > fantastic job, but at 8-9K new this is out of my price range. I have
> > concluded that a used suzuki may do most all the terrain a
> > Ranger/similar wagon will do at a third of the cost.
> >
> > Having said that: I would like a recommendation on the best approach.
> > My instinct is to buy a used late 80s stock model and apply the basic
> > recommendations on the FAQ section here at off-road.com (tires/lockers
> > + general maintenace hoses/belts etcc...) I have noticed some used
> > suzukis' lifted with a variety of upgrades, (axles/lift kits/etc..)
> > Not being able to tell anything about these components upon
> > inspection, should I avoid them or try to work them into the picture
> > through more research etc...
> >
> > Any other info would be greatly apprciated! Thanks in advance...

 
Hello (and read on below ... )

=================================

Mesquito Creek wrote:

> Let me add a little clarification when I say a "chase" vehicle... Not
> a chaser in a racing situation where it has to go fast, more like a
> chase mule! We will use it to follow some bikes/quad on day rides...
> As I stated in the OP, the target is something like a Yamaha Rhino or
> Polaris Ranger. Average speeds will be in the 30 mph range.

=================================
Sounds like the Sami's strong suit to me. In fact,
you might be fine right out of the box with NO
mods. Depending on your trails, a skid plate and
pumpkin guards might be a good idea. If you
haven't done so already, try calling the guys at
Petroworks. They won't BS you.
=================================
> I see your point with a Jeep, but a jeep is going to be more than I
> believe I am willing to commit too. I won't be trying to modify a
> samurai to compete with Jeep,... more just to keep up with a
> rhino/range, and perhaps just haul around some stuff and the
> occasional burnt out kid.
> <SNIP>



--
-- Jack --
=================================
Everything you see is temporary.
=================================
Clean Up Return Address To Reply
=================================
Poway, California (San Diego Co.)
N 32° 57' W 117° 04'
At 508' Elevation
=================================

 
I more or less thought so. The 'chase' vehicle is the parts, water and
recovery rig usually.

A Sami would be a good choice, so would any engine version of Jeep. I
have wheeled with many Jeep 4 bangers and never realized they had the
smaller engine. They have the gearing to make up any difference off
road, they just lack some power for high speed on the highway.

They are worth looking at if you come across one.

Mike

Mesquito Creek wrote:
>
> Let me add a little clarification when I say a "chase" vehicle... Not
> a chaser in a racing situation where it has to go fast, more like a
> chase mule! We will use it to follow some bikes/quad on day rides...
> As I stated in the OP, the target is something like a Yamaha Rhino or
> Polaris Ranger. Average speeds will be in the 30 mph range.
>
> I see your point with a Jeep, but a jeep is going to be more than I
> believe I am willing to commit too. I won't be trying to modify a
> samurai to compete with Jeep,... more just to keep up with a
> rhino/range, and perhaps just haul around some stuff and the
> occasional burnt out kid.
>
> Mike Romain <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > Well, seeing as all these Sami owners are comparing the performance as
> > 'almost' able to keep up with a Jeep after they do all these mods, I
> > would just get the Jeep.....
> >
> > A stock CJ7 will already fit 31" tires and go damn near anywhere. The
> > 4.2 engine is almost bullet proof with amazing low end torque. It also
> > has a 'bunch' more room for parts if you are the chase vehicle.
> >
> > Just my $0.02,
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > Mesquito Creek wrote:
> > >
> > > I am looking for some recommendations on a suzuki samarui or
> > > compareables... Something in the 2-3K used price range...
> > >
> > > I am looking for an in-expensive alternative to something similar to a
> > > Polaris Ranger. I want a small light reliable chase type vehicle for
> > > trail riding in Baja, Mexico. I have concluded that a Suzuki Sam may
> > > just be the vehicle. Are there any others that I am overlooking?
> > >
> > > The wagon will follow groups of a dozen bikes/quads on day trips of
> > > about 100 miles in Baja. We have one polaris Ranger that does a
> > > fantastic job, but at 8-9K new this is out of my price range. I have
> > > concluded that a used suzuki may do most all the terrain a
> > > Ranger/similar wagon will do at a third of the cost.
> > >
> > > Having said that: I would like a recommendation on the best approach.
> > > My instinct is to buy a used late 80s stock model and apply the basic
> > > recommendations on the FAQ section here at off-road.com (tires/lockers
> > > + general maintenace hoses/belts etcc...) I have noticed some used
> > > suzukis' lifted with a variety of upgrades, (axles/lift kits/etc..)
> > > Not being able to tell anything about these components upon
> > > inspection, should I avoid them or try to work them into the picture
> > > through more research etc...
> > >
> > > Any other info would be greatly apprciated! Thanks in advance...

 
ALMOST?....... my Zuk will out-run any HEEP (4-6cyl) and then I will
take ya' out here in my yard ( I have my OWN rock course) so when Ya'
break the HEEP it aint far to the Shop....LOL

The Dirt Weasel
"JEEP..........It's whats fer' Dinner".....".Here Jeeper Jeeper "
if it takes more than 3 bolts .......... it's important

 
You R not really tryin to say that a $3,500 CJ5-7 wll out wheel a
Zuk.........any time yer' ready
we R not talkin' Trail runnin'..........I'm talkin about REAL Wheelin'
Example.......FIREBIRD ....when the Boyz from "4wheel drive and Sport
ute" Mag were here last year My club took them wheelin' in thereHighly
Modded HEEP and they had a Good Time until they BROKE an axle tryin to
follow a Zuk line : )

and then there is the Film/Pics/Video of me pullin' a RUBICON ( "the
most capable HEEP ever") 5 times in one day 3 times out of the sand and
twice in the Rock Garden on Trail 42........How much is one of those
things?

BTW he SOLD it and bought a Zuk

The Dirt Weasel
"JEEP..........It's whats fer' Dinner".....".Here Jeeper Jeeper "
if it takes more than 3 bolts .......... it's important

 
Stocker to stocker it would be a good match up wouldn't it?

Built up don't count, anything can be built to go certain places.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

PR wrote:
>
> You R not really tryin to say that a $3,500 CJ5-7 wll out wheel a
> Zuk.........any time yer' ready
> we R not talkin' Trail runnin'..........I'm talkin about REAL Wheelin'
> Example.......FIREBIRD ....when the Boyz from "4wheel drive and Sport
> ute" Mag were here last year My club took them wheelin' in thereHighly
> Modded HEEP and they had a Good Time until they BROKE an axle tryin to
> follow a Zuk line : )
>
> and then there is the Film/Pics/Video of me pullin' a RUBICON ( "the
> most capable HEEP ever") 5 times in one day 3 times out of the sand and
> twice in the Rock Garden on Trail 42........How much is one of those
> things?
>
> BTW he SOLD it and bought a Zuk
>
> The Dirt Weasel
> "JEEP..........It's whats fer' Dinner".....".Here Jeeper Jeeper "
> if it takes more than 3 bolts .......... it's important

 
Mike Romain wrote:

> Stocker to stocker it would be a good match up wouldn't it?
>
> Built up don't count, <SNIP>

=================================
But where's the fun in that? ;-)
=================================
> Mike
> <SNIP>



--
-- Jack --
=================================
Everything you see is temporary.
=================================
Clean Up Return Address To Reply
=================================
Poway, California (San Diego Co.)
N 32° 57' W 117° 04'
At 508' Elevation
=================================

 
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