Series 3 Rebuilding a S3 with no I/D marks

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markomate2

markomate2

Well-Known Member
Posts
899
Location
Bedford and Tallinn
Hi
Ive been hankering to do a full rebuild on an S2/S3 for quite a while.
Ive been offered one a very decent price, its an S3 SWB diesel with overdrive and freewheel hubs.
It was used offroad for a while, cage fitted etc.
Problem is she has no ID! No reg plates, no ID plates anywhere, front end of the chassis rails have been replaced so no chassis number.
Ive read the DVLA site, in theory I can re-register and get an age related plate/new VIN, I really dont want to end up with a Q plate!
Has anyone got any direct experience of getting an old LR re-registered?
I really want to save the old girl, but I dont want to spent a lot of time rebuilding her and then get issues later.
Thanks
Mark
 
Hi Ive trawled through the DVLA site, its a not very clear!
If I rebuilt it with the original axles, gerabox, engine, chassis, body, I have to apply for a new registration, complete a "Build up report", then have it inspected by the "Owners club".
If I do all of the above I "should" be able to get an new VIN and age related plate.
If not, it gets treated like a kit car and ends up with a Q plate
 
Don’t take this the wrong way but I hope it’s a right royal pain in the backside.
In theory it should be impossible to do or there would be a queue of car thieves outside the DVLC with series land rovers that just happen to have the dumb irons replaced. Having said that we should save as many of the old chuggers as possible.
It’s worth talking with the DVLA but I bet they remain very none specific and generalistic.
Hope you manage it.
 
I have the same problem as you, my S3s chassis number was lost when it was in the army, also the ID plate from the seat box. DVLA stuck it with a Q plate. I have tried to get an age related reg for it without success. DVLA insist that they MUST be able to see a chassis number on the vehicle before they will consider an age related plate. As it doesn't look like the front dumb-iron has been replaced, I am going to have another look for the number but I can't help feeling that I'm kidding myself... We were discussing this earlier on this thread: https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-ro...t-do-you-own-drive.328290/page-2#post-4228668
 
Its ok I know exactly what you mean!
It would seem pretty strange to me that I could re-register a car just by filling in a few forms and possibly presenting and engine/gearbox number.
But if you build a kit car thats pretty much what you do, plus an SVA etc.
The guidance so far says, fill in forms as if its a new registration, fill in other forms to say what parts you used, get an inspection to determine if you used original/aged parts, get a "club" to inspect it and sign off forms, apply for an age related reg number, get it and a new VIN, get the VIN stamped on the chassis, buy new VIN plates, get them stamped. Hey presto, done!!!

Worse case is that treat it as a kit car, needs an SVA and it gets a Q plate, best case, due to all the original parts being used, it gets a new VIN and an age related plate.

It seems it getting more common now to build "new" cars (and vintage planes!) from just a reg plate and a pile of scrap.
Anyway Ive applied for the forms just to see how it looks.
Still like to know how to get more info from just an engine number!
Mark
 
Extreedoc said:
I have the same problem as you, my S3s chassis number was lost when it was in the army, also the ID plate from the seat box. DVLA stuck it with a Q plate. I have tried to get an age related reg for it without success. DVLA insist that they MUST be able to see a chassis number on the vehicle before they will consider an age related plate. As it doesn't look like the front dumb-iron has been replaced, I am going to have another look for the number but I can't help feeling that I'm kidding myself... We were discussing this earlier on this thread: https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-ro...t-do-you-own-drive.328290/page-2#post-4228668
Click to expand...

Yes thats what Im thinking! But according to their own website it should get an age related plate if it uses enough old parts!
Maybe its just easier for them to issue a Q plate!
 
markomate2 said:
Yes thats what Im thinking! But according to their own website it should get an age related plate if it uses enough old parts!
Maybe its just easier for them to issue a Q plate!
Click to expand...
Sadly I think that many government employees get a thrill out of saying "NO" to the mere public. Think traffic wardens as an example. Keep in touch about this, I for one would love to find an answer to this conundrum. The vintage car builders don't seem to suffer from this intransigence like we mere mortals do...
John
 
markomate2 said:
Hi John
Just looked at your other posts. Strange that they gave you a Q plate even though you found the chassis number!
Was it a new chassis you used?
Click to expand...
Original chassis... The thing is that DVLA don't see the build card as proof, I could have found it from anywhere, fair enough I suppose.
 
Could you have stamped the number on the chassis, or were they already aware it wasnt there?
I guess its a least a good thing they acknowledge/accept vehicles with questionable pasts and created the Q plate system!
 
markomate2 said:
Could you have stamped the number on the chassis, or were they already aware it wasnt there?
I guess its a least a good thing they acknowledge/accept vehicles with questionable pasts and created the Q plate system!
Click to expand...
It was done when the vehicle was first registered as a civvy, well before I got it. Nothing questionable about it, just something that sometimes happens when a vehicle is in the army.
 
Re OP, is there any way to get some more history that leads to a reg number? It probably had one many years ago. It could be a case of trying to find past owners until you get far enough back. Its easy to focus on the numbers on the metal, but paperwork can be very handy and well worth searching for.
 
Hi They are looking for some more info, but I think they bought it as is (de-identified), for off road use, so its original ID could well be driving around somewhere!

It can be put back on the road with a new VIN/Reg but probably as a Q plate, thats not a big issue for me as I dont plan to sell it, but it could cause issues for two reasons:
Firstly, I may want to, eventually, re-register it in Estonia, I think the Q plate will cause a lot of head scratching there! But Im looking into that.
Secondly and perhaps more significantly, there is a consultation going on now with DVLA regarding new emissions tests etc , it shouldn't affect rebuilt LR,s because the proposed rules say as long as the vehicle still looks like it did when it was made and the engine is the same size it wont have to pass an emissions test.
Im just a bit nervous that because its a diesel it will come under greater scrutiny in the future, especially if I use register it abroad.

Full document is here: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...vehicles-improving-air-quality-and-safety.pdf

BTW Read page 11 if you have a later model and plan to by pass your CAT or EGR!

So at the moment, unless I can get more info, Im going to pass on the one Ive been offered and keep looking!
Thanks for all your contributions to this thread.
Mark
 
That link it very interesting. I would advise anyone planning on swapping out a petrol for a diesel to think very carefully at the moment. I don't like the direction things are going. The worst group are after 1973/4 (ie non-historic) and before 2002 if the LEZ is anything to go by. The LEZ rules do not allow any home fitment of emissions kit, it has to be from an approved installer and the case studies are in the £2-3000 range and can still leave you haveing to use an additive. So far historic vehicles are being exempted and my bet is this will continue so long as numbers are low. Most historics are petrol (ie classic cars) so I don't see this being an issue. Brexit is interesting because the UK has stayed out of a lot of the EU vehicle regs the leaving the EU will enable us to stay out, I beleive the UK was comming under pressure to adopt more type approval had we stayed in but there's always the danger that the UK adopt tighter rules for emissions to throw a bone to the remain lobby to show Brexit does not mean a lowering of standards. I think its anyones' call but you can bet diesels will get it either way.
 
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